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Old 09-17-2013, 04:15 PM   #1
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Max RWHP vortech V3?

Anyone know what numbers a forged 416 would be able to turn with a vortech v3? Stock bottom end my ls3 made 726rwhp. Hoping to move up to a YSI once the bottom end is done, but might have to live with the v3 head unit for a while. I've got fuel for days and a meth system so lets assume I will be pushing the v3 to its limits... Anyone put down big numbers?
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:18 PM   #2
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They top out aat like 750 I think, and with smaller blowers these 416s can make less power than the 376.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:44 PM   #3
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Go ysi.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #4
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Probably the same as before. I've seen ~750 by overspinning it a bunch but low 700s is where the Si maxes out most of the time.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #5
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it depends on the max CFM they flow as that is the limfac. If you let me know the max cfm rating i can crunch a few numbers and give you a close estimate.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:11 PM   #6
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I just looked up a V3 Si trim and it says 1150 cfm. So using an air density of about .070 lbs/cf that will flow about 80 lbs/min. Rough estimates of 9.5 to 10.5 hp per Lb of flow nets you 760 hp to 850 hp. So my guess would be a realistic 725 or so rwhp. Its all thermodynamics and physics. Maybe your dyno will give you better numbers
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SS45th View Post
They top out aat like 750 I think, and with smaller blowers these 416s can make less power than the 376.


My D1sc rated at 1400cfm gave me 715 whp with a 4.00 pulley at 11 psi. I am running it for the time being on my HKE 427 and am at the second to the last pulley with a 3.55 and 14psi and am making 758whp which jives with what PC says the max hp rating is.....925 BHP. Two different Dynos. The dyno at Dallas Performance with the LS3 i think was generous when it gave me 715whp.

If you get on a dyno that gives you more that about 750, i would question the operator or the dyno.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #8
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The V3 will optimally push 750, but you might want to go straight the the Ysi. The V3 is efficient, however it MIGHT, be too small of a blower. What CR are you gonna run?
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:15 PM   #9
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I've been working with this tuner since day one. Stock baseline was 350rwhp so I'm pretty confident as to the dyno. Ysi is obviously the smart choice. I saw the SPi guys put down mid 900s with a D1 on a built 427. Obviously they flow better than my little v3. Oh well, looks like I can at least run a cog while I'm at it hahaha
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:47 PM   #10
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D1 will never put down 900 on one of these cars, must have had like a 175 shot to do it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:51 PM   #11
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D1 will never put down 900 on one of these cars, must have had like a 175 shot to do it.
It might have been a higher CR. The specs on the D1 show max HP at 925.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:14 PM   #12
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who knows... I am sure the dyna packs help, and from the looks of it the weather was mighty cold. I'm not too familiar with the procharger family, but a YSI peak cfm is 1600 a D1 isn't too far off.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The V3 will optimally push 750, but you might want to go straight the the Ysi. The V3 is efficient, however it MIGHT, be too small of a blower. What CR are you gonna run?
Im looking to run high 8.X:1 or low 9:1 ratio. Probably a -25cc dish. Which i assume will want more boost than the v3 can breathe to reach my goal. I will be looking for suggestions once I have the engine all the way out of the car. I'm tackling the build myself, however the final tune will be from Champion Motors here in Toronto.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:21 PM   #14
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It might have been a higher CR. The specs on the D1 show max HP at 925.
The 925 from PC is from the back of the motor. No way the D1 will give 900+whp. The math just does not support this. Math rules the universe. Maybe if your Ve is over 100% but on these singe cam 2 valve motors you are closer to 85 to 90% Ve.

The SPI dyno is very very generous!!!!! YMMV. Pulley all the way down and strap it to the dyno.....then take it to another to compare.

Dont want to be a hater but when my motor only put down 758whp with spinning to the max.....i did some research and pulled out some old ME books i had in the closet from way back in my college days. It all made sense, i am right at 915 or so BHP on the D1SC on a spot on Dyno that Pat Guerra and Kurt Decker use.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:28 PM   #15
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Don't get hung up on a hp number...it's just like a turbo...efficiency is what you are after. Once you fall off the island it makes nothing except heat. Psi wise...after 13psi you are probably making heat. Probably the 3.12 pulley (stock pulley on crank) at 7-7.2k rpm is maxed out. I will know next week. Lol
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
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The 925 from PC is from the back of the motor. No way the D1 will give 900+whp. The math just does not support this. Math rules the universe. Maybe if your Ve is over 100% but on these singe cam 2 valve motors you are closer to 85 to 90% Ve.

The SPI dyno is very very generous!!!!! YMMV. Pulley all the way down and strap it to the dyno.....then take it to another to compare.

Dont want to be a hater but when my motor only put down 758whp with spinning to the max.....i did some research and pulled out some old ME books i had in the closet from way back in my college days. It all made sense, i am right at 915 or so BHP on the D1SC on a spot on Dyno that Pat Guerra and Kurt Decker use.
So then it's probably safe to assume that the mid 900's that was seen probably had an additional power adder to reach that goal.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:32 PM   #17
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Im looking to run high 8.X:1 or low 9:1 ratio. Probably a -25cc dish. Which i assume will want more boost than the v3 can breathe to reach my goal. I will be looking for suggestions once I have the engine all the way out of the car. I'm tackling the build myself, however the final tune will be from Champion Motors here in Toronto.
That's a really low compression for a centrifugal blower. You might have to look at a higher numbere to reach good efficiency.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #18
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Let me know how it goes.

BULLF-16 I certainly agree that a dynapack is likely generous. Were you running a built motor with for the 758rw pull? what rpm did you turn? what was your baseline? Im guessing you're putting down more than 758rw now based on your sig. We made 726@6900 - 10psi on stock bottom with a V3 on the dynojet.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:45 PM   #19
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That's a really low compression for a centrifugal blower. You might have to look at a higher numbere to reach good efficiency.
Im gonna run some build options with the champion guys. They have numerous mid 800rw 402 ysi setups, but ill have to check on the CR, you might be right
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:40 PM   #20
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Let me know how it goes.

BULLF-16 I certainly agree that a dynapack is likely generous. Were you running a built motor with for the 758rw pull? what rpm did you turn? what was your baseline? Im guessing you're putting down more than 758rw now based on your sig. We made 726@6900 - 10psi on stock bottom with a V3 on the dynojet.
Yes, this was a couple months ago down in South Tx. My built HKE LSX427 at 9.4:1 CR. Almost spinning the D1SC to max speed with a 3.55 pulley at 7000rpm. The only pulley left is a 3.4.

The 758rwhp equates to 910hp at the flywheel which jives almost exactly with the procharger max power specs they list. It also matches almost exactly with the math.


The D1 flows 1400 cfm which is 90Lbs/min assuming an air density of .070 lbs per cubic foot. Basic flow dynamics thru a 2 valve motor equate to about 9.5 to 10.5 hp per LB/Min of flow. Its all basic mech engineering and thermodynamics. No, its not exact, but it gets you close.

The video of Calberts car pulling 925whp on a D1SC has been beat to death on a thread from long ago. I actually believed that the D1 would get to 900 whp while many here did not. It wasnt till my 427 was built that ran .4 compression ratio more than Calbert1999s that i figured i would dust off the books and do some math. Its pretty much physically impossible for a blower that provides a max of 1400cfm to allow 900+ whp which is 1050 or so flywheel hp. So, like in the thread from long ago, i think the dynatec dyno was way out of spec. Not to dis my bro Calbert1999, but it just is not possible.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:47 PM   #21
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So then it's probably safe to assume that the mid 900's that was seen probably had an additional power adder to reach that goal.
NO, this was from a thread from about 2 years ago. Lots of guys called BS on the numbers from SPI. I actually believed it possible till i strapped my almost identical motor on the dyno a couple months ago spinning the D! to about 98% max speed. I made 758whp at 14psi and 7000 rpm and that comes out to about 910hp and PC says max HP for the D1 is 925 hp, not whp btw. HP is all about pumping the max amount of air possible thru the motor.....which is nothing more than an air pump.

Im no expert however. But i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!!!

YMMV
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:46 PM   #22
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That compression you are shooting for is way too low.
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:46 AM   #23
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A little bench math: assuming the manual cars lose 15% by the wheels (726) im pushin 850bhp which is 125 above the rated max for the V3. There is more than just flow to be considered here. Either way, what we can safely assume from this dead horse is I need more huff in front of my stroker.... That sounded dirty
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:20 AM   #24
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Just to throw this out there...Matt at fsp does a trade in upgrade program. If you don't want to go all out to the ysi, you could go to a novi1500. Personally, I think with your motor, I'd look YSI.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:20 AM   #25
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That's what I'm thinking. Just trying to see if I could get away with cheaping out. Unfortunately we all know that is never an option haha
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