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Old 08-22-2013, 07:44 PM   #1
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ZL1 brake weight?

Well, trying to look for the best location to save weight from without disturbing the cars balance and I think rotational and unsprung weight cannot be beat.

Does anyone have any idea how much the stock brakes weigh? including calipers, im trying to compare this to the ZR1 Carbon Ceramic brakes.

Thanks!
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:44 PM   #2
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Why not just get the Z28s CCBs?
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:21 AM   #3
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Why not just get the Z28s CCBs?
Yup
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #4
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Should be about 40 lbs less for the CCBs. That's the difference on the M5/M6.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:05 AM   #5
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Just did rotors . . weighed them myself.

Front rotor 27 lbs.

Rear rotor 23 lbs.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ayousef View Post
Well, trying to look for the best location to save weight from without disturbing the cars balance and I think rotational and unsprung weight cannot be beat.

Does anyone have any idea how much the stock brakes weigh? including calipers, im trying to compare this to the ZR1 Carbon Ceramic brakes.

Thanks!
You'll save about 1/2 the weight for the ccb rotor which is about 10-14 lb. really depends on the size of rotor and caliper you want to use. With same size ccb rotor and upgraded brembo monoblock caliper, you should shave off about 90 lb for the four corners.

$1600 each for the rotors plus calipers. Although you may stop under 100 ft from 60-0, i'm not sure if it justifies the swap.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:06 PM   #7
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thanks a lot for the replies guys but im trying to figure out, where are you getting all those numbers from what im trying to ask is, how can I get a damn equal sized CCB rotor for the stock brake? It does not exist...

with that said all the numbers you guys are giving out don't make any sense, there is a MOVit brake system for about $25k and if that system saves 90lbs of rotational and unsprung weight I would buy them now even thought im broke lol.

Im getting the Racingbrake upgrade and ive been told they will save 16lbs of rotational mass in total.

Z/28 parts will be available after about one year, which is a few months after the vehicle is for sale.

Lets keep the topic going.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by THR ZL1 #1 View Post
Just did rotors . . weighed them myself.

Front rotor 27 lbs.

Rear rotor 23 lbs.
based on Racingbrakes website their fronts are 23.5lbs and the rears are 18lbs.

if those weights are accurate the total savings will be:

17lbs which is inline with what I just said.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ayousef View Post
based on Racingbrakes website their fronts are 23.5lbs and the rears are 18lbs.

if those weights are accurate the total savings will be:

17lbs which is inline with what I just said.
I don't know what you plan on doing with your car but I had to toss a set of front and rear "race" rotors on my CTS-V because they overheated and the Iron was full of heat cracks. I have not seen a thread on the Camaro boards of this nature but this seems to be more common in the Cadillac because of the extra weight. The brembo 2 piece rotor on the front is a great design, you may be able to save some weight but I think you will lose some dependability unless a ceramic alternative is available. Every bit of mass in the Brembo front is functional. If they could have made it lighter and reliable they would have.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #10
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I don't know what you plan on doing with your car but I had to toss a set of front and rear "race" rotors on my CTS-V because they overheated and the Iron was full of heat cracks. I have not seen a thread on the Camaro boards of this nature but this seems to be more common in the Cadillac because of the extra weight. The brembo 2 piece rotor on the front is a great design, you may be able to save some weight but I think you will lose some dependability unless a ceramic alternative is available. Every bit of mass in the Brembo front is functional. If they could have made it lighter and reliable they would have.
The reason the other rotors are lighter are because they are drilled and slotted and maybe the hats are lighter.

The reason for the bigger weight saving on the rears are because of the one vs two piece rotors.

So, show us some replacement rotors that are lighter, where are the guys that spoke about carbon ceramic replacements?

Also, I could do the ZR1 brake system however I am not sure if it will work with the ABS and other modules.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #11
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Also, I could do the ZR1 brake system however I am not sure if it will work with the ABS and other modules.
Honestly the ZR1 brake system seems like the best option from my point of view. I'm curious how much of a difference it would make in lap times on the road course. As you may ave noticed I have a few ZR1 parts on my car and GM is very proud of all the ZR1 specific parts when it comes to pricing.

Shaving weight can be just as important as adding horses when it comes to performance but I don't think the brakes are going to give you the most bang for the buck. If you really want light you are going to have to start gutting the interior and go bare or get very light coverings, I don't know what the glass in this car weighs but I'll bet there is a lot of potential there.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:44 PM   #12
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Honestly the ZR1 brake system seems like the best option from my point of view. I'm curious how much of a difference it would make in lap times on the road course. As you may ave noticed I have a few ZR1 parts on my car and GM is very proud of all the ZR1 specific parts when it comes to pricing.

Shaving weight can be just as important as adding horses when it comes to performance but I don't think the brakes are going to give you the most bang for the buck. If you really want light you are going to have to start gutting the interior and go bare or get very light coverings, I don't know what the glass in this car weighs but I'll bet there is a lot of potential there.
The reason I looked at the wheels/tires is because of the nature of the weight, reducing static/dead weight is good but reducing unsprung is better and rotational mass + unsprung is the best. Taking weight out of the wheels/tires or brakes is huge but again I don't know if it will work without causing any issues. I also don't know where to look to find this information, im trying not to be the guinea pig here unfortunately?

Theoretically, Brembo should know the answer to this but I don't know who and how to contact them for such an issue honestly.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:46 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ayousef View Post
based on Racingbrakes website their fronts are 23.5lbs and the rears are 18lbs.

if those weights are accurate the total savings will be:

17lbs which is inline with what I just said.
I hope you are not talking about these rotors

http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...1-F-p/2160.htm

I must agree with jessrayo with this one. I wouldn't start saving unsprung weight with another lighter iron rotors. You'll start facing with reliability issues. Unless your swapping from single to a high quality two piece slotted with aluminum hats/hardware.

You willing to spend the dough ($25K), then there is only the option of ceramic carbon brakes (ccb). I don't think anyone is offering a bolt on carbon brake kit with the zl1. So, you may have to built one for yourself or ask brembo or movit to produce one.


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with that said all the numbers you guys are giving out don't make any sense, there is a MOVit brake system for about $25k and if that system saves 90lbs of rotational and unsprung weight I would buy them now even thought im broke lol.

As for the movit

http://www.movitbrakes.com/en/media/galerie/galerie-einzelansicht/nissan-gtr-r35-ceramic-braking-system-frontrear/

Just from swapping the Iron two piece rotor on the GTR to a much larger two piece movit carbon rotors will save you 32 lb total weight. These are not the lightest carbon rotors you can get and you can save even more if you stayed with the same size front and rear.

Nissan GTR OEM Front 390x35mm (10.8 kg)
Nissan GTR OEM Rear 380x30mm (11.75 kg)

MOV'IT full Ceramic Front 400x32mm (7.7 kg only)
MOV'IT full Ceramic Rear 396x40mm (7.5 kg only)

To shave ~ 90 lb weight savings is from the stock six-piston fixed OEM Brembo front and four-piston rear calipers
with two piece iron rotor front 370mm and single piece iron rotor rear 365mm swap to something like a Brembo Monoblock GTR Caliper with latest generation Ceramic Carbon Brakes two piece aluminum hats/hardware front and rear with similar size.
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:18 PM   #14
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I hope you are not talking about these rotors

http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...1-F-p/2160.htm

I must agree with jessrayo with this one. I wouldn't start saving unsprung weight with another lighter iron rotors. You'll start facing with reliability issues. Unless your swapping from single to a high quality two piece slotted with aluminum hats/hardware.

You willing to spend the dough ($25K), then there is only the option of ceramic carbon brakes (ccb). I don't think anyone is offering a bolt on carbon brake kit with the zl1. So, you may have to built one for yourself or ask brembo or movit to produce one.





As for the movit

http://www.movitbrakes.com/en/media/galerie/galerie-einzelansicht/nissan-gtr-r35-ceramic-braking-system-frontrear/

Just from swapping the Iron two piece rotor on the GTR to a much larger two piece movit carbon rotors will save you 32 lb total weight. These are not the lightest carbon rotors you can get and you can save even more if you stayed with the same size front and rear.

Nissan GTR OEM Front 390x35mm (10.8 kg)
Nissan GTR OEM Rear 380x30mm (11.75 kg)

MOV'IT full Ceramic Front 400x32mm (7.7 kg only)
MOV'IT full Ceramic Rear 396x40mm (7.5 kg only)

To shave ~ 90 lb weight savings is from the stock six-piston fixed OEM Brembo front and four-piston rear calipers
with two piece iron rotor front 370mm and single piece iron rotor rear 365mm swap to something like a Brembo Monoblock GTR Caliper with latest generation Ceramic Carbon Brakes two piece aluminum hats/hardware front and rear with similar size.
Rotora have a carbon ceramic brake system, 8 piston calipers upfront and 4 in the rear if im not mistaken and can produce it for the ZL1, however im not sure what the weight savings are.

I don't know if the monoblock Brembo calipers are any lighter than the two piece calipers however? Im sure they can sell you a full Brembo GTR brake system with carbon ceramic rotors, but I would do that if I had a light ass track car and not on my fully street driven ZL1.

Would be interesting if MovIt comes out with a factory replacement rotor in carbon ceramic including pads that could work nicely with the factory brake system.
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:21 PM   #15
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I hope you are not talking about these rotors

http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...1-F-p/2160.htm

I must agree with jessrayo with this one. I wouldn't start saving unsprung weight with another lighter iron rotors. You'll start facing with reliability issues. Unless your swapping from single to a high quality two piece slotted with aluminum hats/hardware.

You willing to spend the dough ($25K), then there is only the option of ceramic carbon brakes (ccb). I don't think anyone is offering a bolt on carbon brake kit with the zl1. So, you may have to built one for yourself or ask brembo or movit to produce one.





As for the movit

http://www.movitbrakes.com/en/media/galerie/galerie-einzelansicht/nissan-gtr-r35-ceramic-braking-system-frontrear/

Just from swapping the Iron two piece rotor on the GTR to a much larger two piece movit carbon rotors will save you 32 lb total weight. These are not the lightest carbon rotors you can get and you can save even more if you stayed with the same size front and rear.

Nissan GTR OEM Front 390x35mm (10.8 kg)
Nissan GTR OEM Rear 380x30mm (11.75 kg)

MOV'IT full Ceramic Front 400x32mm (7.7 kg only)
MOV'IT full Ceramic Rear 396x40mm (7.5 kg only)

To shave ~ 90 lb weight savings is from the stock six-piston fixed OEM Brembo front and four-piston rear calipers
with two piece iron rotor front 370mm and single piece iron rotor rear 365mm swap to something like a Brembo Monoblock GTR Caliper with latest generation Ceramic Carbon Brakes two piece aluminum hats/hardware front and rear with similar size.
also the weight savings on the Movit example above is only 16.2lbs that's what 7.35kg are.
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #16
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I hope you are not talking about these rotors

http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...1-F-p/2160.htm

I must agree with jessrayo with this one. I wouldn't start saving unsprung weight with another lighter iron rotors. You'll start facing with reliability issues. Unless your swapping from single to a high quality two piece slotted with aluminum hats/hardware.

You willing to spend the dough ($25K), then there is only the option of ceramic carbon brakes (ccb). I don't think anyone is offering a bolt on carbon brake kit with the zl1. So, you may have to built one for yourself or ask brembo or movit to produce one.
Don't know why you're bad mouthing Racing Brake - they're the best rotors on the market (currently) for our cars.

See this review: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294470
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #17
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I also don't know where to look to find this information, im trying not to be the guinea pig here unfortunately?
Honestly, it looks like you are the guinea pig here because I know of no one with ceramic brakes on a Camaro yet. After you figure it all out please pass the information on to the rest of us. I suspect the new Z28 system is a ZR1 system and I kind of think that would be the best route to pursue.

I know great braking is a huge advantage on the road course and to be honest I don't think there is a better system than what I'm running now without going ceramic. With the aftermarket systems you will lose weight but you can't really be sure if it will improve stopping power over a good racing pad. If you swap to the GM system you can pretty much bet on improved performance because they would not put it to market if it didn't show a gain. All the little details definitely add up but sometimes you spend thousands of dollars and see very little gain. Not to deter you but that may be the case here.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:21 PM   #18
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Honestly, it looks like you are the guinea pig here because I know of no one with ceramic brakes on a Camaro yet. After you figure it all out please pass the information on to the rest of us. I suspect the new Z28 system is a ZR1 system and I kind of think that would be the best route to pursue.

I know great braking is a huge advantage on the road course and to be honest I don't think there is a better system than what I'm running now without going ceramic. With the aftermarket systems you will lose weight but you can't really be sure if it will improve stopping power over a good racing pad. If you swap to the GM system you can pretty much bet on improved performance because they would not put it to market if it didn't show a gain. All the little details definitely add up but sometimes you spend thousands of dollars and see very little gain. Not to deter you but that may be the case here.
I do not want the brakes for the additional braking performance, I want it for the savings in rotational and unsprung mass which is equivalent (almost) to 4x dead weight. The ZR1 brakes will save about 40lbs in all four corners which is ALOT. I just found out the Z28 rear brakes are larger than the ZR1 and the hub bolt patterns are a little different.

The Racingbrake rotor upgrades will shave something like 16lbs in total which is not bad for an iron rotor. Gains in the rear are more because the factory rears are one piece vs the racing brake two piece.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:22 PM   #19
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Don't know why you're bad mouthing Racing Brake - they're the best rotors on the market (currently) for our cars.

See this review: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294470
I had experience with Racing Brake in the past and their open-slot rotors and have only good things to say about them.

Those rotors + Cobalt friction rotors, SS lines and high temp fluid should make a big braking difference.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:26 PM   #20
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Don't know why you're bad mouthing Racing Brake - they're the best rotors on the market (currently) for our cars.

See this review: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294470
Thanks for this information stig. These look like lighter rotors, especially for the rear. I know I did not try these on the CTS-V because the ones that cracked on me were drilled. I may try them the next time I replace rotors.

Generally speaking braking distances have little to do with the rotor unless overheating is a factor. To be completely objective, overheating is probably a factor more often than not. If not overheating, it has a lot more to do with the pad and the caliper force. A good rotor needs to cool efficiently and be able to withstand the high heat of peak braking. In your review, unless all the other cars are overheating their brakes, the rotors are probably not the factor in you out braking them. I have never overheated my current braking system so I don't think those rotors would improve my stopping any more than running a lighter rim would. I will admit that the stock ZL1 has a good brake airflow system, (unless you use it feed your monster Whipple). The airflow design probably helps the brake cooling as much or more than the rotor design.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:33 PM   #21
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The ZR1 brakes will save about 40lbs in all four corners which is ALOT. I just found out the Z28 rear brakes are larger than the ZR1 and the hub bolt patterns are a little different.
It sure would be great if GM performance could release the z/28 brake parts for public sale..... I'm sure some of the ZL1 owners might be interested.....hint, hint...
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:34 PM   #22
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Thanks for this information stig. These look like lighter rotors, especially for the rear. I know I did not try these on the CTS-V because the ones that cracked on me were drilled. I may try them the next time I replace rotors.

Generally speaking braking distances have little to do with the rotor unless overheating is a factor. To be completely objective, overheating is probably a factor more often than not. If not overheating, it has a lot more to do with the pad and the caliper force. A good rotor needs to cool efficiently and be able to withstand the high heat of peak braking. In your review, unless all the other cars are overheating their brakes, the rotors are probably not the factor in you out braking them. I have never overheated my current braking system so I don't think those rotors would improve my stopping any more than running a lighter rim would. I will admit that the stock ZL1 has a good brake airflow system, (unless you use it feed your monster Whipple). The airflow design probably helps the brake cooling as much or more than the rotor design.
agreed
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:42 PM   #23
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Rotora have a carbon ceramic brake system, 8 piston calipers upfront and 4 in the rear if im not mistaken and can produce it for the ZL1, however im not sure what the weight savings are.

I don't know if the monoblock Brembo calipers are any lighter than the two piece calipers however?
from your posts sounds like you are very interested in removing unsprung weight so probably not a good idea to fit 8 piston caliper 16" rotors. I just see the iron rotor for the 2010+ Camaro is available.

The monoblock is lighter.


Quote:
Don't know why you're bad mouthing Racing Brake - they're the best rotors on the market (currently) for our cars.
I'm not trying to bad mouth them. I have no experience with them and if the reviews are good, they probably is a great product. I was referring to the op posts about how much he wants to reduce weight and want to compare to the ZR1 carbon brakes but in fact he was more interested in the two piece iron rotors. I was actually very interested to see someone to do a full on CCB system with the zl1. Personally once I'm done with the oem rotors, I probably will go with two piece slotted iron rotor with either XP16/XP12 or the Cobalt XR1


Quote:
also the weight savings on the Movit example above is only 16.2lbs that's what 7.35kg are.
maybe i'm wrong but wouldn't make sense if carbon rotor saves 16.2 lb and the RB saves 17 lb. Look at the 4 pictures with the rotor on scale and calculate the math yourself.
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