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Old 09-23-2009, 07:37 PM   #51
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lsa non forged internals. yuck. give me the ls9. but i honestly believe it's the lsa ftw.
Most people don't need forged internals, also most never push an LS motor to its full potentental anyway. Would it be nice to have forged internals, yes, but to keep the price down keep it the way it is.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:48 AM   #52
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Most people don't need forged internals, also most never push an LS motor to its full potentental anyway. Would it be nice to have forged internals, yes, but to keep the price down keep it the way it is.
key word there is most. But I'm not looking at max power or max potential. I'm looking at longevity. and on top of that from what I read about the lsa it's at or very close to the max efficiency out of the supercharger. put a bigger one on there the engine life is cut in half and now what? got a big paper weight like i do in my back yard.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:00 AM   #53
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whose to say the new Z28 wont just be a handeling package or some nifty stickers on a body kit? Just a thought, maybe jsut another 6.2L or perhaps a nice middle model with the 5.3L from the trucks. They put them in the Monte Carlo SS and they ran like champs, 5.3 seconds 0-60. Not to shabby.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:15 AM   #54
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key word there is most. But I'm not looking at max power or max potential. I'm looking at longevity. and on top of that from what I read about the lsa it's at or very close to the max efficiency out of the supercharger. put a bigger one on there the engine life is cut in half and now what? got a big paper weight like i do in my back yard.
Don't worry you"ll get longevity out of the motor the way it is. I have yet to see the TVS superchargers pushed to their limit so I doubt that that thing is at its limit. I could be wrong, but you have to look at IAT's, CFM, supercharger speed to determine is your pushing it to it limits. And if your into modding motors putting a TVS 2300 on any motor should require forging the pistion and connection rods.
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:48 AM   #55
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key word there is most. But I'm not looking at max power or max potential. I'm looking at longevity. and on top of that from what I read about the lsa it's at or very close to the max efficiency out of the supercharger. put a bigger one on there the engine life is cut in half and now what? got a big paper weight like i do in my back yard.
I dont' know about the efficiency of the LSA packaged TVS1900, but I know Magnuon had told a magazine, in a test on the first TVS'd G8 GT (it was either SC, CHP, or PHR I think) that the TVS1900 would support up to 800 horsepower (flywheel, presumably). That's a totally different SC assembly, but the rotors are the same, but it just seems if Magnuson can get 800 out of those sized rotors, GM's set-up should be within a some-what similar range I'd think, anyways. I need to do some research and see if there are any OEM to Magnuson SC swaps for those LSAs - that'd be a cool test I think up'ing the boost a few pounds wouldn't really impact the longevity of the engine though - it's still got a steel crank, and what seem like good rods and pistons. It does have those piston squirters too, to control those piston crown temps', and if GM brags about it around the 'Ring, then they shouldn't have a problem with people racing these things and deny warranties (what I'm saying is it looks like it's built pretty good; not as over-built as an LS9, but still really well...)

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whose to say the new Z28 wont just be a handeling package or some nifty stickers on a body kit? Just a thought, maybe jsut another 6.2L or perhaps a nice middle model with the 5.3L from the trucks. They put them in the Monte Carlo SS and they ran like champs, 5.3 seconds 0-60. Not to shabby.
Well, the quote from Mr. Welburn says it - not to sound like a smart@$$... Also, that 5.3 is like down 120+ horse shy of the LS3... To me - that doesn't make a whole lotta' sense unless they drop like 500 pounds...

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Don't worry you"ll get longevity out of the motor the way it is. I have yet to see the TVS superchargers pushed to their limit so I doubt that that thing is at its limit. I could be wrong, but you have to look at IAT's, CFM, supercharger speed to determine is your pushing it to it limits. And if your into modding motors putting a TVS 2300 on any motor should require forging the pistion and connection rods.
Putting a 2300 with 6 psi on a stock LS3 SS still sounds like a great option, for me anyways. I keep going back to that because I think that with that mod', a few other basic bolt-ons, and a full Pedders suspension would be perfect for me (with a little pulley action ) and probably come out cheaper than a Z28 from GM. I don't know though, because I'd still be more comfortable in a car GM set-up and just pulley-up and bolt-on a few goodies and be done.

Ugh... You gotta' pay to play
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:14 AM   #56
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LSA just because the powertrain is in the GM parts bin. Now, if they so chose to do a limited run forged ver. possibly a ZL-1 w/ factory forged internals package that could raise the bar so to speak. (The ZR-1 of the Camaro world)

Non Forged LSA: Base Z/28
Forged LSA: ZL-1

Problem is it such a package would shove it into Z06 territory.. :/
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:22 AM   #57
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Problem because people would buy that over the vette? =p
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:04 AM   #58
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I did not know that they CTS-V engine was not forged. Why would they put an engine in the Z-28 that was not forged, makes no sense to me. It's still going to be just as much as a GT500 but with no forgd internals, come on GM. With a forged engine it just opens the door for almost any mod.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:07 PM   #59
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I did not know that they CTS-V engine was not forged. Why would they put an engine in the Z-28 that was not forged, makes no sense to me. It's still going to be just as much as a GT500 but with no forgd internals, come on GM. With a forged engine it just opens the door for almost any mod.
There isn't even a quoted price yet. Try not to jump the gun.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:19 PM   #60
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I did not know that they CTS-V engine was not forged. Why would they put an engine in the Z-28 that was not forged, makes no sense to me. It's still going to be just as much as a GT500 but with no forgd internals, come on GM. With a forged engine it just opens the door for almost any mod.
Well, the crank is, but it doesn't share the same pistons, rods, bearing caps, and few other exotic bits. All in the name to keep things somewhat affordable I wished they had forged steel rods and aluminum pistons, but I guess they weren't in the works. I can see why no Ti rods and forged caps, but the pistons; I didn't get that one. I know the LS9 revs' higher, which is why they used Ti rods, and maybe even why the forged caps, but I am only guessing.

Too bad though. Still, if it's good enough to go around the 'Ring, it's good enough for me and my current plans You're right though - it probably doesn't have the potential the 500 has :( Who wants like 700 RWHP anyways
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:45 PM   #61
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Well how much can you really see Chevy dumping into their Camaro project? And why would they want a Camaro that only the weathy would drive? It doesnt sound like a Camaro? The laws for cars are only going to get stricker in the next few years and GMs spending cant get to much higher just over one car-theyve already slimmed down. I think a lot of people are getting their hopes up too soon-but I could be wrong.
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Old 09-24-2009, 02:56 PM   #62
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DI V8
Hate to sound stupid but...What is DI? It's not Diesel is it?
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:06 PM   #63
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Well how much can you really see Chevy dumping into their Camaro project? And why would they want a Camaro that only the weathy would drive? It doesnt sound like a Camaro? The laws for cars are only going to get stricker in the next few years and GMs spending cant get to much higher just over one car-theyve already slimmed down. I think a lot of people are getting their hopes up too soon-but I could be wrong.
COPOs weren't cheap. Then, you had the ZL1, which costed more than the car itself, if I'm not mistaken, so yeah, I think there's a SLIM chance GM would cater to the more affluent. Do I think this will happen? Probably not. Do I think they should? Certainly not. Why? Because I think GM should directly address the competition, which are going to be Mustang and Challenger models, IMHO. I just don't see a significant change in car-demographics, where you have prior tuner people who are going to come from 350/370Z or even the new Genesis people considering Camaro. I do think GM will get new buyers they didn't have with prior generations, just because this is such a more friendly car.

I don't personally think Camaro shouldn't be for the masses. That's how it started, and I think they should stick to it. I do think there's a market for those who would be willing to spend more on a higher performing car and that they would sell at least a competitive amount to GT500 numbers.

I do hope a lot of us aren't getting all worked up over nothing though...

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Hate to sound stupid but...What is DI? It's not Diesel is it?
Direct Injection. High pressure fuel injectors are placed in the combustion chambers, as opposed to the intake runners in the intake manifold, and the fuel is atomized a lot finer so it burns more completely, increasing efficiency and lowering emissions. I think the LLT runs something like 2000-plus psi in the fuel rails, opposed to many MPFI engines, like the LS3/L99, where they run somewhere from 40-50-os-so psi.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:30 PM   #64
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Direct Injection. High pressure fuel injectors are placed in the combustion chambers, as opposed to the intake runners in the intake manifold, and the fuel is atomized a lot finer so it burns more completely, increasing efficiency and lowering emissions. I think the LLT runs something like 2000-plus psi in the fuel rails, opposed to many MPFI engines, like the LS3/L99, where they run somewhere from 40-50-os-so psi.[/QUOTE]

Ok, Thanks..
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:33 PM   #65
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Direct Injection. High pressure fuel injectors are placed in the combustion chambers, as opposed to the intake runners in the intake manifold, and the fuel is atomized a lot finer so it burns more completely, increasing efficiency and lowering emissions. I think the LLT runs something like 2000-plus psi in the fuel rails, opposed to many MPFI engines, like the LS3/L99, where they run somewhere from 40-50-os-so psi.
Ok, Thanks..[/QUOTE]

I think I got most of that right

I like your sig'
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:41 PM   #66
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I see what youre saying and I would agree. My only concern is with Ligenfelter/Hen and everyone else taking the SS and modifying in such ways, and the 'hero' Z28 to be in perhaps small numbers, would GM take the risk of competing against itself through aftermarket crowd just for same end results as Hen? Although the Z28 is more 'catered' with warrenty and the 'this is how i want it get it to me' ordership, which already has proven strong-but most of us already bought one and cant afford a trade so soon, or another one in the driveway. what if the, dare say, the new Z28, has a MyStErY motor?? ooooooo. Perhaps they want to take on the Taurus with a twin turbo V6? Food for thought?
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:41 PM   #67
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Ok, Thanks..
I think I got most of that right

I like your sig' [/QUOTE]


Thanks, Got the image from FTP performance website (hope they don't mind me advertising for them ) I can't wait for the Z!!!
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:17 PM   #68
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I see what youre saying and I would agree. My only concern is with Ligenfelter/Hen and everyone else taking the SS and modifying in such ways, and the 'hero' Z28 to be in perhaps small numbers, would GM take the risk of competing against itself through aftermarket crowd just for same end results as Hen? Although the Z28 is more 'catered' with warrenty and the 'this is how i want it get it to me' ordership, which already has proven strong-but most of us already bought one and cant afford a trade so soon, or another one in the driveway. what if the, dare say, the new Z28, has a MyStErY motor?? ooooooo. Perhaps they want to take on the Taurus with a twin turbo V6? Food for thought?
I think you're totally right on that. I'll tell you, though, that for me, I'd take a 450 RWHP OEM Z28 from GM (and add a pulley and some bolt-ons) opposed to a 500 RWHP tuner-SS because I know Z28 has a powerplant that's been through Hell and back. You're right, though, IMHO, because I don't know how many others would feel the same. Great point.

As long as the MyStErY motor has 8-cylinders, I won't complain, lol Okay, I won't complain as long as it has the performance. I need a big V8 though
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:25 PM   #69
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lol well I dont think wed have to worry about being a V6, so far everything on the Camaro has been nothing short of perfect-theres litterally a Camaro for everybody. I dont for see a Z28 with a V6. Do you suppose that perhaps itll be a LS3 ish motor, maybe better heads? Or an DOHC Northstar even? I only reason I would suggest that is because of the V8 VVT, seems like a strong "Rally" or "Euro" sport kinda of a motor, which would fit the kinda of car a Z28 comes to play in with the handling and more "fun no matter the RPM range" kind of driving-which is what you get in the likes of the STS. But the 4.6 VVT would seems a little outdated for a Camaro.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:34 PM   #70
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lol well I dont think wed have to worry about being a V6, so far everything on the Camaro has been nothing short of perfect-theres litterally a Camaro for everybody. I dont for see a Z28 with a V6. Do you suppose that perhaps itll be a LS3 ish motor, maybe better heads? Or an DOHC Northstar even? I only reason I would suggest that is because of the V8 VVT, seems like a strong "Rally" or "Euro" sport kinda of a motor, which would fit the kinda of car a Z28 comes to play in with the handling and more "fun no matter the RPM range" kind of driving-which is what you get in the likes of the STS. But the 4.6 VVT would seems a little outdated for a Camaro.
I'm sure it'll either be a Gen IV (i.e. LS3-based) or Gen V. I remember seeing images of a 6.2L L92 head a few years ago that had a DI injector in the combustion chamber, and with all the DI engines there are out there now, I could definately see that by the time Z28 returns. I think a 4.XL engine may just be a bit too small for a serious performance Camaro because of the "lack" of torque. I was reading a 1st Gen Camaro reference book last night (because I was curious where the Hell I came up with the LS6 454 possibly being available, COPO-style, in a '69) and saw some track numbers for the DZ Z28. To say the lack-luster 15-second 1320' time was a little slow is an understatement, but that dang thing trapped at 101 MPH at the end of the 1320'! All horsepower, and not a lot of low-end torque... It's not a great analogy, but that's kinda' what I'm seeing in my mellon. VVT would be great in any engine though, if you ask me
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:31 PM   #71
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I think the safest, at least, would be the that L92, then GM wouldnt have to do a whole lot of designing to slip in a new Z-28 only motor. Cant we hire a spy or something??
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:04 PM   #72
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I'm sure it'll either be a Gen IV (i.e. LS3-based) or Gen V. I remember seeing images of a 6.2L L92 head a few years ago that had a DI injector in the combustion chamber, and with all the DI engines there are out there now, I could definately see that by the time Z28 returns. I think a 4.XL engine may just be a bit too small for a serious performance Camaro because of the "lack" of torque. I was reading a 1st Gen Camaro reference book last night (because I was curious where the Hell I came up with the LS6 454 possibly being available, COPO-style, in a '69) and saw some track numbers for the DZ Z28. To say the lack-luster 15-second 1320' time was a little slow is an understatement, but that dang thing trapped at 101 MPH at the end of the 1320'! All horsepower, and not a lot of low-end torque... It's not a great analogy, but that's kinda' what I'm seeing in my mellon. VVT would be great in any engine though, if you ask me
Better ETs from back in the day aren't hard to find, Hot Rod magazine's test of a '69 DZ302 in Jan. of '69 was 14.34/101.35. And that was a bone stock single 4v Holley. Typical little mods made by owners also improved things easily, the standard single point distributor was often replaced with a Delco-Remy dual point distributor made for the Vette, carb re-jetting, less restrictive exhaust (unless you already had the factory chambered exhaust), lots of little things could be done to help that DZ302. To add a little perspective, in May '69 Car Life tested a Camaro SS 396cid/375 HP at 14.77/98.72.
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:06 PM   #73
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Definitely the LSA, which is great so long as this car does not weigh more than 4000
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:58 AM   #74
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Better ETs from back in the day aren't hard to find, Hot Rod magazine's test of a '69 DZ302 in Jan. of '69 was 14.34/101.35. And that was a bone stock single 4v Holley. Typical little mods made by owners also improved things easily, the standard single point distributor was often replaced with a Delco-Remy dual point distributor made for the Vette, carb re-jetting, less restrictive exhaust (unless you already had the factory chambered exhaust), lots of little things could be done to help that DZ302. To add a little perspective, in May '69 Car Life tested a Camaro SS 396cid/375 HP at 14.77/98.72.
Clyde
Would the Cross-Ram and headers in the trunk still be considered "factory" parts even though the dealer installed them? After seeing that 396 (?L78?) time, that little 302 didn't do so bad after all I have a neighbor, that I just happened to stumble across, that has a '67 or '68 Z28, and though it has a 383 now, he said it ran REALLY good back in the day with the 302 (1320').

Good stuff. Thanks Clyde

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Definitely the LSA, which is great so long as this car does not weigh more than 4000
... I wish
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:02 AM   #75
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Drives: 2010 Camaro RS/SS TF Edition
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 629
it should come with a gold chain...
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Love it or hate it, my car can transform and kick your cars @$$!
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