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Old 09-27-2009, 08:40 PM   #101
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Actually its an interesting note that the LS7, while being the biggest of the three, is also lighter than the LSA and LS9...although i would very much love to see an extremely light LS302 return as mentioned earlier (thanks to clark17357)
Really i have just a few beefs with supercharging and those would be that supercharging focuses on more power ar higher RPMs which i preffer more low end power and torque, i personally cant stand supercharger whine (although ive heard the LSA has eliminated this), supercharging adds a lot more weight than most people think, often making it heavier than just a large bored N/A engine (such as the LSA vs. LS7 discussion), and lastly idk if this is still true for the LSA and current engines but dont supercharged engines tend to have more hesitation between the pedal reaction and the power reaction? (correct me if im wrong here, id rather know the facts than just have oppinions LOL)
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:09 PM   #102
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Quote:
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Really i have just a few beefs with supercharging and those would be that supercharging focuses on more power ar higher RPMs which i preffer more low end power and torque, i personally cant stand supercharger whine (although ive heard the LSA has eliminated this), supercharging adds a lot more weight than most people think, often making it heavier than just a large bored N/A engine (such as the LSA vs. LS7 discussion), and lastly idk if this is still true for the LSA and current engines but dont supercharged engines tend to have more hesitation between the pedal reaction and the power reaction? (correct me if im wrong here, id rather know the facts than just have oppinions LOL)
Depends on the supercharger, roots give low to midrange torque with flat torque curve, centrifigals give more top end power. Since the LSA/LS9 uses the new gen roots supercharger TVS series they are quieter than the old gen superchargers. Superchargers power is instant and have no hesitation. Some folks don't like roots because you have instant power on the low end and makes it harder to put the power down.

I have a supercharged GTO.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:31 PM   #103
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Ahh kay, thanks much, the new superchargers are pretty amazing really, they do a good job of eliminating all the quirks i hated about them in the first place haha
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:37 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Actually its an interesting note that the LS7, while being the biggest of the three, is also lighter than the LSA and LS9...although i would very much love to see an extremely light LS302 return as mentioned earlier (thanks to clark17357)
Biggest in terms of displacement...which means less block material as it was bored out...and then all those titanium pieces...hehe -- I'm not surprised.


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I personally cant stand supercharger whine (although ive heard the LSA has eliminated this), supercharging adds a lot more weight than most people think, often making it heavier than just a large bored N/A engine (such as the LSA vs. LS7 discussion), and lastly idk if this is still true for the LSA and current engines but dont supercharged engines tend to have more hesitation between the pedal reaction and the power reaction? (correct me if im wrong here, id rather know the facts than just have oppinions LOL)
No roots supercharger is going to have that whine, anymore. Since EATON pretty much owns that market, the new TVS series rotors are ridiculously quiet.

And as for throttle response...well...The LSA has 350+ lb/ft on tap at 1000rpms....you tell me.

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Depends on the supercharger, roots give low to midrange torque with flat torque curve, centrifigals give more top end power. Since the LSA/LS9 uses the new gen roots supercharger TVS series they are quieter than the old gen superchargers. Superchargers power is instant and have no hesitation. Some folks don't like roots because you have instant power on the low end and makes it harder to put the power down.
+1, Well said.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:32 PM   #105
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From the net:
LS8
This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:35 PM   #106
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From the net:
LS8
This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.
Nice find. We've seen mention of the mysterious LS8 before, probably from the site you quoted here....


But that's all we've heard of it.... We've never seen it discussed over the last two years or so...

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Old 09-30-2009, 03:01 PM   #107
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The way I read the write-up about the LS8 is that it's basically the LS3 with the LSA supercharger on it. No forged crank...I think that would be a bad move for GM over the long haul. I hope I am wrong.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:42 PM   #108
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For those hungry for the 427 LS7 it uses the stock hypereutectic pistons. Not forged
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:47 PM   #109
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One of Chevy's own dyno tests for their 302 Z/28 engine dated 8/2/67 showed a single four barrel version with 440 HP @ 7400 RPM and the two four barrel version with 468 HP @ 7400 RPM, the fuel injection version (which was never put into production) was 470 HP @ 7400 RPM. According to the data sheets accompanying these tests, they were using Traco Racing prepared heads rather than the stock heads, otherwise the engines appeared to be stock.
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those were SCCA racing engines not factory 302's.
there have been new test by mags on this subject and with all the factory goodies they only made 360 or so HP.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:16 AM   #110
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I found this while surfing the net:
A detailed look at GM's LS motor plans

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A detailed look at GM's LS motor plans
10/30/07, 09:12am, EDT

With so much incorrect information out there about GM's future LS motors, we though it would be a good time to query our sources and get the real deal. From the Cadillac CTS-V to the Corvette ZR1, we take a look at the LSA, LS7, LS8, LST, and LS9.

LS7

This is, of course, the current 7.0-liter, naturally aspirated motor in the Z06. It's handbuilt at GM's Wixom performance center and is very expensive to make. Too expensive with the LS9 motor coming. While there will be several months where the LS7 and LS9 will be built at Wixom, the LS7 will eventually die, probably sometime between late-2009 or mid-2010.

Several publications have repeatedly insisted the new CTS-V will be powered by the LS7, but this is completely false. GM cannot spend engineering dollars on a CTS-V to start with the LS7, then 12 to 18 months later, switch motors after the LS7 is discontinued. Rather, the super Caddy will feature an all-new powerplant.

LSA

The LSA will find its way under the hood of the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The LSA is a 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold.

Preliminary specs have it over 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions. The CTS-V will start production in September of 2008 with this motor. Look for around 6000 to 8000 units annually.

Original plans also had the LSA going into an Escalade V-series truck. However justifying the development cost — not to mention CAFE considerations — might put possibility of such a truck in jeporady. At present, it is unclear whether the Escalade-V a truck is still part of the plan.

LS8

This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.

That said, original plans had this motor going into a Denali SUV or truck, however, those plans now seem to be canceled. Again, this maybe a result of CAFE.

Some of Holden's vehicles may also get this motor eventually. Initial specs have this motor at 475 to 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions.

When the LS7 dies, the Z06 will get this motor. Possibly, slightly uptuned from the version the Zeta cars would get. This motor will start production in first or second quarter of 2010.

LST

Yet another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This motor may or may not still be in GM's plans. The original plan was to put it in GM's Heavy Duty trucks.

Delivering in excess of 450 pound-feet of torque, it was set to start in the middle of 2008. However, it now seems this motor may no longer be part of the plan. GM may have decided its diesel offerings were sufficient. It's also possible GM had a hard time justifying the cost of development. Of course, CAFE might have also played a role.

LS9

This is the 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger going into the ZR-1 Corvette. Like all the others, it has an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. Original specs had this motor at 600 horsepower and 550 to 560 pound-feet of torque. It now seems the horsepower rating may have jumped to as much as 650.

If that's true, it would probably be safe to estimate a similar jump in torque to around 600 ft lbs. Sources have stated the LS9 can make 700hp on a test stand. Obviously though, that is without a car attached to the motor. Don't look for any production hp number starting with "seven."

It now appears an auto/paddle shift may also be an option on the ZR-1. This motor will be handbuilt at GM's Wixom performance center. They will only make 1500 to 2000 units a year. Production of the ZR-1 starts in July of 2008.
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:21 AM   #111
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That article is pretty old. And we've never even heard a squeak about the LS8 from GM.... Not to say it doesn't exist.... Just never seen nor heard of it "officially".
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
those were SCCA racing engines not factory 302's.
there have been new test by mags on this subject and with all the factory goodies they only made 360 or so HP.
Source please?? The dyno tests I quoted were from Chevy's own records, they did state that the heads were Traco Racing prepared heads, nothing was mentioned about the rest of the engine being any different than a production engine. Do you have any idea what made the SCCA racing engines different from the production engines? Besides the prepared heads?? We've been looking at a video for a few months of a dyno run of a basically stock DZ302 that had a run of 530HP @ 8,500 RPM. The old 302s would turn in excess of 7,000 RPM right off the production line, don't take my word for it, ask any of the 28,103 owners that bought one '67-'69.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:26 AM   #113
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there is no way it will be the ls9 engine if that is the case why buy the zr1 vett?
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:24 AM   #114
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there is no way it will be the ls9 engine if that is the case why buy the zr1 vett?
There's MUCH more to the ZR1 than its engine.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:27 AM   #115
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There's MUCH more to the ZR1 than its engine.
Yeah, it has gigantic carbon metallic brakes and the magnetic suspension. Those coupled with the light weight make it a bad mo-fo!
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:37 PM   #116
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Here's my idea: the LS7. The LSA has the supercharger, which ads weight, and i think considering the price of the CTS-V and ZR1, demands a higher price. Offer the Z28 stripped, as much as possible. Still with a radio and air. This is 2010 after all. Like the 1SS. 42K, or thereabouts. That accomplishes two things:
1. It's the same price as the challenger SRT8, and will blow the doors off it.
2. It may not be quite as fast as the GT500. Or it maybe. Only a test will show. But--it will undercut the GT500 price by 6k.
I think with that strategy they steal more sales from dodge and ford.
It may be the case that Chevrolet wants to charge 50k no matter what engine is in it. But given the fact that it will wear the same size wheels, probably brakes, and most likely will not carry exotic materials, i think it makes sense. that's just my idea.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:54 PM   #117
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Source please?? The dyno tests I quoted were from Chevy's own records, they did state that the heads were Traco Racing prepared heads, nothing was mentioned about the rest of the engine being any different than a production engine. Do you have any idea what made the SCCA racing engines different from the production engines? Besides the prepared heads?? We've been looking at a video for a few months of a dyno run of a basically stock DZ302 that had a run of 530HP @ 8,500 RPM. The old 302s would turn in excess of 7,000 RPM right off the production line, don't take my word for it, ask any of the 28,103 owners that bought one '67-'69.
Clyde
Have read it through the years in numerous publications.

Within the last month or so a magazine (Super Chevy) built numerous small block chevy's to original spec's and the 302 was around 350HP. And yes it was mid to top end HP. Very stout, however it just show today's V8's rule (and they get better mileage).
For the SCCA racing 302 I'll let you google and find the info
.

Last edited by 2cnd chance; 10-03-2009 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:53 PM   #118
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i want to think that was Super Chevy. the Trans Am prepped 302's had , supposedly 600hp.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:23 PM   #119
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Here's my idea: the LS7. The LSA has the supercharger, which ads weight, and i think considering the price of the CTS-V and ZR1, demands a higher price. Offer the Z28 stripped, as much as possible. Still with a radio and air. This is 2010 after all. Like the 1SS. 42K, or thereabouts. That accomplishes two things:
1. It's the same price as the challenger SRT8, and will blow the doors off it.
2. It may not be quite as fast as the GT500. Or it maybe. Only a test will show. But--it will undercut the GT500 price by 6k.
I think with that strategy they steal more sales from dodge and ford.
It may be the case that Chevrolet wants to charge 50k no matter what engine is in it. But given the fact that it will wear the same size wheels, probably brakes, and most likely will not carry exotic materials, i think it makes sense. that's just my idea.

LSA $14,295.99

LS7 $14,195.99
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:50 PM   #120
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:49 PM   #121
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You guys are forgetting competition. unless they can squeeze more power out of a LS7, its going to be the LSA. GT500 540 HP vs camaro 560 HP duh
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:35 AM   #122
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You guys are forgetting competition. unless they can squeeze more power out of a LS7, its going to be the LSA. GT500 540 HP vs camaro 560 HP duh
ur forgetting the SS is pulling near gt500 numbers with 100hp less. so a camaro with 505hp will pretty much take a gt500.
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Old 10-03-2009, 07:16 AM   #123
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Have read it through the years in numerous publications.

Within the last month or so a magazine (Popular Hotrodding?) built numerous small block chevy's to original spec's and the 302 was around 350HP. And yes it was mid to top end HP. Very stout, however it just show today's V8's rule (and they get better mileage).
For the SCCA racing 302 I'll let you google and find the info
.
I don't need to Google it, I know what the differences were, just wanted to know if you did. The recent test you refer to perhaps was the one where they built a 302, 327, and a 350 to see how they performed? If that is your "authoritative" documentation then you are operating under very false assumptions. None of the builds on any of the three engines was totally correct, you only need to read "we substituted part such and such as it should be close enough" and that was done with numerous parts. That article IMHO was total BS. Yes today's engines are very good, but I think that some of the old engines are given far less credit than they are due.
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Old 10-03-2009, 07:34 AM   #124
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ur forgetting the SS is pulling near gt500 numbers with 100hp less. so a camaro with 505hp will pretty much take a gt500.
The numbers are a little misleading. The GT500 had pretty bad traction issues. At about 1000 feet into the run it looked like the Camaro threw out an anchor as the GT500 pull away. There is no doubt the GT500 is faster than the SS.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:00 AM   #125
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I don't need to Google it, I know what the differences were, just wanted to know if you did. The recent test you refer to perhaps was the one where they built a 302, 327, and a 350 to see how they performed? If that is your "authoritative" documentation then you are operating under very false assumptions. None of the builds on any of the three engines was totally correct, you only need to read "we substituted part such and such as it should be close enough" and that was done with numerous parts. That article IMHO was total BS. Yes today's engines are very good, but I think that some of the old engines are given far less credit than they are due.
Clyde
Then why ask?
The substitutes were of better/minor parts if I remember correctly. (thanks to the poster, it was Super Chevy)
I don't think a pro Chevy mag would do something to damage the rep of an iconic Chevy engine.
As I said it's been written about for years in different magazines & books. I've owned and coveted Camaros since the mid 70's, and have read many books etc about my fave the first gen. Z/28.

The 302 is an awesome motor as I believe I mentioned in my first post. Very few muscle type cars were capable of such high revs. It was built as a race car no doubt. It's just that the legend has been blown a little out of proportion.

And, don't forget Penske was very good at "cheating" the rules by doing numerous things to the engine/cars to win as they all did back then.
And along with the heads there were different cams used in the full out racing engines.

In closing 360HP out of a 302 back in 1967-69 is nothing to feel bad about.
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