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Old 08-31-2013, 04:38 PM   #43
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Wow, that is something.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:21 PM   #44
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how big of a pain was the master cylinder install
Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. I thought it was rather easy. Hardest part was bleeding the brakes after the install.


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Here you go. 8k miles, virgin fluid. Hard use. No need for mod, IMHO.

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Either you got lucky and have a car with no problems or you are not driving it hard enough. Mine was pitch black after 8k miles.
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:10 AM   #45
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I didn't have to bleed the brakes when I did mine. I just removed enough fluid from the brake reservoir such that when I removed the clutch line it didn't drip. Then I capped the clutch line outlet on the reservoir and restored the fluid. In other words, my brake pressure was constant the whole time.

Why did you have to muck with the brake fluid?
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:19 AM   #46
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Because I replaced the entire master cylinder reservoir and I flushed the whole system with DOT4 fluid.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:46 AM   #47
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Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. I thought it was rather easy. Hardest part was bleeding the brakes after the install.




Either you got lucky and have a car with no problems or you are not driving it hard enough. Mine was pitch black after 8k miles.
I can assure you that I didn't install a cam, tune and intake so that I could have a cool dyno sheet to hang on the wall. I do drive this car hard, and most of those miles are stoplight to stoplight.

I'm not buying the clutch dust theory. Heat will easily discolor fluid. If I did have the issue myself, I would do my own analysis to pinpoint the cause. The way I see it, if dust could get in, fluid could come out. Nobody ever reports leaks. To further that, there are thousands of M6 cars on the road that don't get any kind of maintenance on the brake fluid, and they're still rocking strong.

I don't run a catch can either (gasp!), and my intake manifold is spotless.

If nothing else, 25 years as a pro tech have taught me that you don't need to chase problems that aren't there. I do realize that some people do see these issues on their car, but I don't. I'll never buy equipment that I don't need.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:15 PM   #48
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I can assure you that I didn't install a cam, tune and intake so that I could have a cool dyno sheet to hang on the wall. I do drive this car hard, and most of those miles are stoplight to stoplight.

I'm not buying the clutch dust theory. Heat will easily discolor fluid. If I did have the issue myself, I would do my own analysis to pinpoint the cause. The way I see it, if dust could get in, fluid could come out. Nobody ever reports leaks. To further that, there are thousands of M6 cars on the road that don't get any kind of maintenance on the brake fluid, and they're still rocking strong.

I don't run a catch can either (gasp!), and my intake manifold is spotless.

If nothing else, 25 years as a pro tech have taught me that you don't need to chase problems that aren't there. I do realize that some people do see these issues on their car, but I don't. I'll never buy equipment that I don't need.

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Well I am glad you didn't have any problems man. This has been an old ongoing issue, there are several articles regarding this issue on corvettes. Also, if there were no issues there wouldn't be multiple threads on C5 about second gear grind, sticky pedals, etc. If it was just heat then there wouldn't be chunks of stuff in my fluid. I do agree heat can be a factor in discoloration but since I have done this my brake fluid stays clear a lot longer than it use to before and chunky free. If I didn't have a problem I would have left it alone.

After 45 days at two different dealerships over 1 1/2 years with no fix I was either going to trade the car in or find a solution to the problem. What I did fixed my problem and I have had no more issues even on several road courses in 100+ degree temps.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by strych9 View Post
Here you go. 8k miles, virgin fluid. Hard use. No need for mod, IMHO.

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Since you kept the original setup, which keep all the fluid in one place, its gonna take longer to contaminate all the brake/clutch fluid than just the clutch reservoir, which is a lot smaller(1/10 smaller I'd say!). Simple logic. BTW yours is getting brown, not good. But you do what you want. You have the right not to believe it..

Youre right about not chasing inexistant problems, but prevention is important too. Many threads about problems with trans and clutch, the problem is real and this is a good start for the fix.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:45 AM   #50
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Since you kept the original setup, which keep all the fluid in one place, its gonna take longer to contaminate all the brake/clutch fluid than just the clutch reservoir, which is a lot smaller(1/10 smaller I'd say!). Simple logic. BTW yours is getting brown, not good. But you do what you want. You have the right not to believe it..

Youre right about not chasing inexistant problems, but prevention is important too. Many threads about problems with trans and clutch, the problem is real and this is a good start for the fix.
I agree with you. The problem is real for some people. My car doesn't have the issue. If one day it does have the floored pedal issue, I will install the Ideal clutch master cylinder, as that appears to be a feasible and logical fix. Until I see it for myself, I will never believe that clutch particulates can work themselves into a place where pressurized liquid lives, yet the liquid doesn't leak out. Never. Ever.

I have cut one of these slave cylinders in half, just to try to validate the concept. I'm no engineer, but I'm a 25-year ASE Master Tech certification holder, and have done my fair share of racing. This concept defies logic.

Consider this: since your clutch is essentially a centrifugal disc, where is dust and particulate going to naturally migrate to? AWAY from the center, where the slave cylinder lives.

I get it, opinions vary. However, I don't take things as a given, especially because "it says so on the internet". My fluid has some discoloration, yes. All brake fluid discolors. It's doing its job. There is absolutely no particulate matter in there, just discoloration from heat.

Again, people can spend their cash where they think they need to. Me, I'd spend $100 to disprove the notion that I "must" buy a $10 chotchkie for my ride. That's just how I roll.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:46 PM   #51
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I had to revisit this thread...
I drive like an old man... well... everything's relative; let's say I drive about 2/3 as hard as I did when I was thirty. I'm an old head who always turns off the nannies... unless it's raining cause "I" wanna drive.

I learned how to drive in a manual... manual EVERYTHING for that matter, and for thirty-five years I've always had a manual. I shift smooth as silk almost 100% of the time and average about 24mpg in my 1LE. I have seen as much as 78mi after a fill-up with the DIC reading 422mi to empty for a 500mi tank full of gas.

You feeling me? I'm easy.
I just checked the Dot 4 in my clutch reservoir after 2000mi and it was FUBARED. A ten minute change and it's crystal again. It is what it is...
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:09 AM   #52
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I've been riding sport bikes for 30 years and mfluid gets dark on them too, but its from heat, not from dust contamination. I have never changed the fluids on the bikes other than the normal maintenance intervals. I have friends who constantly change theirs as soon as they see it starting to darken. Never had any issues on my bikes with the clutch sticking. I've had Ducati's, KTM's, Aprilias, Honda's and Yamaha's and never had an issue.

From everyone I've talked to and the research I've done, it turns dark from moisture absorption (although this takes a long time) but with the clutch its the more frequent actuation and heat that makes it go dark so quickly. If it was clutch dust you would also be leaking fluid.
I 2nd this opinion, the fluid can change color due to heat and due to moisture. The dust from the friction plate in the clutch assemble does not get into the fluid. Its almost silly to have read that. You might want to check the seal on the cap of your seperate clutch master cylinder, might be letting in a ton of moisture
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:23 AM   #53
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Also if the clutch pedal is sticking to the floor after numerous hot lapping or heavy use, you be wise to think your pushing the clutch hydraulics to the point of component failure. The heat involved to cause the pedal to stick is enough to start breaking down the fluid. Even if you run DOT 4 WITH A BOILING POINT OF 446F. Ton of threads on the 4th gen f body websites with same issues. I have 1100 miles of hard driving and fluid looks just fine. I'd worry about the ph level, some say corrosive protection first before the color. They have special litmus strips used to check the balance and need to change.
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:19 PM   #54
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I had to revisit this thread...
I drive like an old man... well... everything's relative; let's say I drive about 2/3 as hard as I did when I was thirty. I'm an old head who always turns off the nannies... unless it's raining cause "I" wanna drive.

I learned how to drive in a manual... manual EVERYTHING for that matter, and for thirty-five years I've always had a manual. I shift smooth as silk almost 100% of the time and average about 24mpg in my 1LE. I have seen as much as 78mi after a fill-up with the DIC reading 422mi to empty for a 500mi tank full of gas.

You feeling me? I'm easy.
I just checked the Dot 4 in my clutch reservoir after 2000mi and it was FUBARED. A ten minute change and it's crystal again. It is what it is...
Wow.... 24 MPG!!!

disclaimer...I only have 950 miles so far...The best I have gotten so far is 15.3MPG and that's not driving 10/10 all the time. Maybe after the break in it will get better?
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #55
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It gets better and better. I swear pulling the fuse in the trunk seemed to help... the intake helped a little too...
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #56
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I was wondering, since i replace my fluid after every tank,and go through like 5 fluid changes in the process.I pump the clutch 30 times,before sucking the fluid out.So this is like 150 clutch pumps,will this promote early clutch wear?
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