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Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

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Old 07-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #26
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I'd buy one. I bought the V6 for gas mileage, not because I couldn't afford the SS. This way I could have the best of both worlds.

Will the tranny handle 400 rwhp? Didn't I read somewhere that the limit was 375?
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:52 PM   #27
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i would love to turbo for the v6
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:14 PM   #28
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correct me if I am wrong and I usually am but they don't usually have roots style SC's for V-6's so Turbo is pretty much our only option????????????
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
The way I see it, even if the kit's price puts the V6 at the same price of the SS, it will still be better.

Only the 6M LS3 is putting numbers *near* the 400's in stock form (and it's mostly 350-380). But to reach it you will need a tune and some form of intake or exhaust mod (headers, catback) which further increases the price range. The 6A are sporting 310 to 335 (one member here even had a 295 for one of the runs which is really low; he's suffering from one of those "slow l99" problems, but still) I see nothing wrong with a V6 putting 400rwhp for the same price (even better if it's less).

It's a win-win situation! Off the boost it's the same mannered V6 (which is no slouch either!) with great MPG. On the boost, it will beat the SS (this is an assumption on my part...but higher HP, lower weight, and turbo’s are usually associated with gobs of torque). I’m thinking about a stage 3 cobalt SS turbocharged (Yes I know it's a 4 cyl, but it still making absurd HP/TQ for very little $$$ - more than an L99 and that's a LOT) and the past GNX and drooling at the results and potential in this V6.

Once you have the kit, further power upgrades are just about increasing the boost and fuel requirements (the bottom end is already forged no?) And this motor already has all the good goodies from the factory.

Only thing missing will be the suspension upgrades, but people interested in higher levels of power might just skip the SS drive train specs and go beyond. The only thing keeping me on this V6 vs V8 debate for which car I'll buy is that I really want to have the best of both worlds (and to me that's all the benefits of the 6 with the power of the 8) but there are no FI kits in the horizon yet (nor tuning) available. If there was I would buy the V6 in a heartbeat as I would know there will be upgrades for further modifications down the road.

Bottom line: Looks (the V6 looks better w/o the fake ram air sorry), more power, same luxury, and a better price? What's there not to like? If you make it, people will buy it. There will also be more V6 cars than V8 cars; which is always a good thing as there are more potential buyers!

but you have to remember that dyno numbers dont mean one car is faster than another.

compare the stock v6 camaro to the current mustang GT. both make around 300hp. but which is faster?

you dont need a dyno curve that looks like mt everest to move. you need power under the curve, and lots of it. id rather have a v6 set up with 350rwhp from 2500-6500 than one that makes 400hp from 6500-7000.



dont get me wrong, I think a turbo kit for the v6 will be an awesome upgrade. but if they are going to run a price of $6k, then they should include the install and tuning of it with it.



and I know a lot of the price is paying back the R&D that goes into creating a package like this. but when I look at other companies' products. their pricing is at least $1k lower in most applications.

and I know that this car is brand new, but companies have been dealing with forced induction on numerous vehicles for years and its not like they have to reinvent the wheel for every single different car they make a system for.

for example.... STS has a single rear mount turbo setup for the v6 mustang that runs for ~$4500.00, comes with upgraded injectors, tuning software, and nearly doubles the power output.
and thats on a rear mount setup without an intercooler.

then add in the fact that you can get a twin turbo setup for roughly $8-10k for just about any vehicle out there (full system, not just pieced together)

I think 6k is a little steep. and at that price, I dont see them selling a lot.
JMHO.
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:58 PM   #30
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Big difference in the materials used frontmount/rearmount turbo. IMO 6K is in the neighborhood for what is involved. I build Turbocars for a living, Kits you see for a bargain price are missing things you need.

Again, it's more about the market & the potential buyer then the price of the kit.
Is the v-6 owner all about hgih performance? And if so, doe he or she have the coin to do the job right? 'cause cheap and fast are not bedfellows.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:43 PM   #31
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John if you don't, someone else will. Please do it and do it right. I am not going to get one for a couple years, but a top notch turbo kit would be on the top of my list of mods. Make sure you put out a tuner version too.

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Old 07-10-2009, 08:52 PM   #32
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but you have to remember that dyno numbers dont mean one car is faster than another.

compare the stock v6 camaro to the current mustang GT. both make around 300hp. but which is faster?

you dont need a dyno curve that looks like mt everest to move. you need power under the curve, and lots of it. id rather have a v6 set up with 350rwhp from 2500-6500 than one that makes 400hp from 6500-7000.



dont get me wrong, I think a turbo kit for the v6 will be an awesome upgrade. but if they are going to run a price of $6k, then they should include the install and tuning of it with it.



and I know a lot of the price is paying back the R&D that goes into creating a package like this. but when I look at other companies' products. their pricing is at least $1k lower in most applications.

and I know that this car is brand new, but companies have been dealing with forced induction on numerous vehicles for years and its not like they have to reinvent the wheel for every single different car they make a system for.

for example.... STS has a single rear mount turbo setup for the v6 mustang that runs for ~$4500.00, comes with upgraded injectors, tuning software, and nearly doubles the power output.
and thats on a rear mount setup without an intercooler.

then add in the fact that you can get a twin turbo setup for roughly $8-10k for just about any vehicle out there (full system, not just pieced together)

I think 6k is a little steep. and at that price, I dont see them selling a lot.
JMHO.
I understand your point. There are a lot of factors involved on which car is faster and not just the peak RWHP. A perfect example is the Camaro V6 vs. GT as you mentioned (the faster one being the GT as it weights less, has more torque, better launch capabilities with the live axle, etc...)

I'm just assuming (yeah i know what they say about people that assume ) that on this particular application the V6 might be faster than the SS as it has most of the variables in it's favor with a turbo setup (but this won't be known until it's build and tested, real life has a way of messing up with theories all the time)

I too think it will be an awesome upgrade; and yes I would hope it includes the tuning at least in the kit (this would be one of the most critical components in achieving the power and keeping the motor together). The price (if it's too much, too little or just about right) will depend on the quality of the product; and I'm sure they will put out a top quality product.

I sincerely hope they do build it, the potential buyer base is there: More v6 cars than V8, people that bought the V6 for efficiency and daily driving MPG that can keep it if they stay off the boost, the new generation of young people that think V8's are history and the new "in" is technology & force induction and bought the V6. This V6 is a great piece of machinery, unlike previous V6 models for a few exceptions (I know I’m going to feel the back lash of this last comment ). I just wish it came with a turbo from factory, we would be sitting on the next GNX (I hope this dream comes true )
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
The way I see it, even if the kit's price puts the V6 at the same price of the SS, it will still be better.

Only the 6M LS3 is putting numbers *near* the 400's in stock form (and it's mostly 350-380). But to reach it you will need a tune and some form of intake or exhaust mod (headers, catback) which further increases the price range. The 6A are sporting 310 to 335 (one member here even had a 295 for one of the runs which is really low; he's suffering from one of those "slow l99" problems, but still) I see nothing wrong with a V6 putting 400rwhp for the same price (even better if it's less).

It's a win-win situation! Off the boost it's the same mannered V6 (which is no slouch either!) with great MPG. On the boost, it will beat the SS (this is an assumption on my part...but higher HP, lower weight, and turbo’s are usually associated with gobs of torque). I’m thinking about a stage 3 cobalt SS turbocharged (Yes I know it's a 4 cyl, but it still making absurd HP/TQ for very little $$$ - more than an L99 and that's a LOT) and the past GNX and drooling at the results and potential in this V6.

Once you have the kit, further power upgrades are just about increasing the boost and fuel requirements (the bottom end is already forged no?) And this motor already has all the good goodies from the factory.

Only thing missing will be the suspension upgrades, but people interested in higher levels of power might just skip the SS drive train specs and go beyond. The only thing keeping me on this V6 vs V8 debate for which car I'll buy is that I really want to have the best of both worlds (and to me that's all the benefits of the 6 with the power of the 8) but there are no FI kits in the horizon yet (nor tuning) available. If there was I would buy the V6 in a heartbeat as I would know there will be upgrades for further modifications down the road.

Bottom line: Looks (the V6 looks better w/o the fake ram air sorry), more power, same luxury, and a better price? What's there not to like? If you make it, people will buy it. There will also be more V6 cars than V8 cars; which is always a good thing as there are more potential buyers!
My opinion is virtually the same, but that won't stop me from expressing it.

A lot of people are turned off by the faux ram intake and the wide-placement fog lamps that make the Camaro SS less like the concept. In addition to this fact, many have argued that the 1SS is highly undesirable due to lacking features when compared to the 2LT, leading some to step down with the goal of making up the performance deficit in the aftermarket.

This is where Hennessey's kit can make dough. The truth is that the LLT V6 is already a dominant motor when compared to others with similar features or performance. The problem is that the V6 in the Camaro needs to be pushed to the limit. Without Hennessey's quality engineering, I think that it might not get pushed appropriately.

For you kit to be successful, you need to build a kit that leaves a fully loaded Camaro LT with your turbo kit at a lower price than a Camaro 2SS at MSRP. Additionally, your kit should include recommendations for building the internals of the engine and point out which parts are more likely to fail that are not part of the kit. Obviously, a high-quality tune backed with a warranty will make the kit very easy to sell.

As a customer, my biggest concern is that I will buy something that will cost me unexpected expenses later. Having a reputable brand backed with serious R&D will alleviate many of those concerns for buyers. Hennessey has a real sales opportunity with a V6 turbo kit. Please build this.

Additionally, design something even more dominant for those who have higher goals for their V6. Feel free to slap a premium tag on this second kit, and aim for GT500 numbers. I'm sure you'll make a few good sales out of this product as well. That V6 can run with the best. Someone good needs to prove it. That should be Hennessey.
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:15 PM   #34
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6K IS definately a premium for henessy name on it! For reference...The Gt30 turbo kit for my 177HP solstice took it to 320 hp for 4000k that included CIA, BOV, Piping and heat shield along with a new ECM and the program
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:17 PM   #35
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OH BTW BTF (BaldTurboFreak) KNOWS whatever there is to know about turbos!
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:02 PM   #36
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6K IS definately a premium for henessy name on it! For reference...The Gt30 turbo kit for my 177HP solstice took it to 320 hp for 4000k that included CIA, BOV, Piping and heat shield along with a new ECM and the program
4000k? Most expensive turbo kit ever....

Heh, might want to fix your naming conventions
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:11 PM   #37
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4000k? Most expensive turbo kit ever....

Heh, might want to fix your naming conventions
Yeah, you coulda bought like 4 Veyrons for $4 million.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #38
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go ahead and make it cuz i know im interested.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:12 PM   #39
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$6k on top of a v6 (non-LS) will get you within $500-$1k of the price of an SS...To sell these, I think you'll have to make that gap a little bit bigger.
even though i own a SS, he makes sense
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:54 PM   #40
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Saying it has to put a V6 in the V8 price range is way off. A lot of people don't want to put a warranty-blowing mod like a turbo kit on a new car. But the used market is going to be going nuts for turbo kits and such. It has nothing to do with the price vs. a new Camaro.

$6000 is in the same price range as the turn-key supercharger kits too. Tuner versions usually run in the $4000 range. I think it is right on. If I can pick up a used Camaro in the mid to low teens in a couple years, I will be all over this kit. And Solstice guy, kits are much simpler when you only have one manifold. Not really apples to apples pricewise.

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Old 07-12-2009, 01:06 AM   #41
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100 hp increase at the wheels would be enough.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:37 AM   #42
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im new to FI but Wouldn't a small turbo spool faster and provide quicker Power then a Big turbo?




how long does it usually take a car with a 400hp turbo kit take to spool, how quick would you feel the turbo kicking in

sorry if i sound Dumb im not the smartest when it comes to cars and modding but im learning
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #43
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IT depends on the size of the parent motor. making a 400hp setup out of a 200hp motor will require a comparativly large turbo for the displacement.
Making 400hp on a 300hp motor the turbo sizeis "small" with respect to the engine it's on.
It's almost instantaneous with a well matched setup. Put together well, you'll see 80-90% of availible torque before 3K.
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:13 PM   #44
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IT depends on the size of the parent motor. making a 400hp setup out of a 200hp motor will require a comparativly large turbo for the displacement.
Making 400hp on a 300hp motor the turbo sizeis "small" with respect to the engine it's on.
It's almost instantaneous with a well matched setup. Put together well, you'll see 80-90% of availible torque before 3K.
i see...

Im wondering if there will be any loss of Mpg's,

isn't 93 octane premium gas?

why does A turbocharger require Premium??
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:16 PM   #45
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Most times there will be little if any loss in mpg. In some cases the mpg improves due the the abilty to short shift from your new mountain of low end torque.

A turbocharger requires premium because the cyl pressure raises with your new power increase (where your power comes from). Having more compressive pressure from a denser gas being compressed by your 11.3-1 pistons means that the fuel is more subjectable to preignition/detonation
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:08 AM   #46
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will it work with auto and manual
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:26 AM   #47
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I don't even know where to find 93 octane gas around here. The gas stations only offer 87, 89, and 91.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:25 AM   #48
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A turbo car can be tuned on any octane just fine. You will just make more power safely on the higher octane.

With a proper setup turbo, you can easily make tons of torque well under 3000 and still make big power. Its all about sizing.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:09 PM   #49
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I don't even know where to find 93 octane gas around here. The gas stations only offer 87, 89, and 91.
i thought 93 was Premium gas? or is that 91?
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:24 PM   #50
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i thought 93 was Premium gas? or is that 91?
depends on your area I think. Here in S.FLA(Mia) its 87,89,93. I have seen very few stations with 91.
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