Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Grabiak Performance Center
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro 1LE Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-25-2013, 12:01 PM   #1
Mister Will
 
Mister Will's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 C5 Corvette A&A supercharger
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego, CA.
Posts: 102
Camaro 1LE lap time bests Shelby GT500 @ VIR, comments?

It beat a C6 Corvette Grand Sport also which technically shouldn't be possible.

I am doing research for a pony car. I am looking seriously at the Shelby GT500 and Camaro ZL1. The Camaro 1LE is appealing from a practicality stand point($). As far as the 1LE beating the GT500 at VIR, I'm curious as to why. Because it shouldn't have happened. The 1!LE has a great suspension. But it gives up nearly 250 HP! It weighs nearly the same as the GT500. The GT500 should have destroyed the 1LE's time. Even at the C&D hot laps the 1LE did presentable. I can understand why the ZL1 can compete with the Shelby GT500, but the 1LE?

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virgin...l_raceway.html
Mister Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #2
Synner


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: May 2011
Location: overseas
Posts: 3,758
HP doesn't mean that much on that kind of track. The 500 has piss poor tires, wheels and suspension compared to the 1LE or ZL1. Theres a big difference between power and usable power.
Synner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #3
tramtwo


 
tramtwo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: N'Awlinz
Posts: 6,299
No production Mustang at any cost has had a better published time than a 1LE on any road course to date.

this setup is bad assed....
__________________
tramtwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 12:51 PM   #4
scubadoo7
Airborne Recondo
 
scubadoo7's Avatar
 
Drives: Crystal Red 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fairfax Station Va.
Posts: 864
Also, Fords solid rear axle is total fail on road course.
scubadoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #5
Chris6067
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort St. John, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 15
A big part of why the 1LE does so good on the track is because of it's Independent Rear Suspension, which is no secret to anyone.

It's also roughly 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1, if I remember correctly.
Chris6067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 01:08 PM   #6
Mister Will
 
Mister Will's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 C5 Corvette A&A supercharger
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego, CA.
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris6067 View Post
A big part of why the 1LE does so good on the track is because of it's Independent Rear Suspension, which is no secret to anyone.

It's also roughly 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1, if I remember correctly.
This is correct. The 1LE is about 300 lbs lighter. It just has so much more power that it can accelerate out of the corners faster than the LS3 equipted 1LE.
Mister Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 01:13 PM   #7
gajagfan


 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Will View Post
This is correct. The 1LE is about 300 lbs lighter. It just has so much more power that it can accelerate out of the corners faster than the LS3 equipted 1LE.
Not if it can't get the power to the ground, or if it has started to over heat as it often tends to do. That car is a great idea in principle, poor example of execution.
gajagfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #8
MarkSS
 
MarkSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 360
There was a new GT500 at a recent track day, and not only was my 1LE significantly faster... so was a Boss 302 LS that was there (and a Volvo wagon...)
MarkSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 02:30 PM   #9
Bozz1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Waterloo
Posts: 549
I beat out GT500's at Toronto Motorsports Park in my 3.8GT Genesis Coupe (with Hankook RS3 tires, HUGE whiteline swaybars, HSD 3 Way Coils and every other suspension arm, brace by Cusco)... Mustang and Handling do not fit together... apparently the new generation will have IRS though.
__________________
2013 Summit White Camaro 1SS/1LE/RS - Cammed Time Attack Monster
1998 Black Camaro - Built LQ9, TH400 and 88MM BW turbo build in progress.
A2B Motorsport Lsx/Modern Muscle and Sports Car Performance and Tuning Kitchener ON
Bozz1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 02:30 PM   #10
Mister Will
 
Mister Will's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 C5 Corvette A&A supercharger
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego, CA.
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
Not if it can't get the power to the ground, or if it has started to over heat as it often tends to do. That car is a great idea in principle, poor example of execution.
Wait, are you talking about the ZL1 or the GT500?
Mister Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 02:47 PM   #11
tramtwo


 
tramtwo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: N'Awlinz
Posts: 6,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSS View Post
There was a new GT500 at a recent track day, and not only was my 1LE significantly faster... so was a Boss 302 LS that was there (and a Volvo wagon...)

__________________
tramtwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #12
gajagfan


 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Will View Post
Wait, are you talking about the ZL1 or the GT500?
GT500. That was a report on one of the many comparisons road tests I watched on line was that the GT500 overheated after a few laps and they had to slow down and let it cool off. They hammered the ZL1 all day long. The power to the ground is probably a challenge for both vehicles, but the straight axle of the Ford is not the way to win that battle.
gajagfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 03:18 PM   #13
Mister Will
 
Mister Will's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 C5 Corvette A&A supercharger
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Diego, CA.
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
GT500. That was a report on one of the many comparisons road tests I watched on line was that the GT500 overheated after a few laps and they had to slow down and let it cool off. They hammered the ZL1 all day long. The power to the ground is probably a challenge for both vehicles, but the straight axle of the Ford is not the way to win that battle.
Just to clarify. I watched the comparison between the two at Laguna Seca. What they said was the brakes started to fade after a lap. Is that what you are talking about or are sure it's the coolant temperature?
Mister Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 03:57 PM   #14
gajagfan


 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 2,601
Yes, and this was not at Lagune Seca. I apologize for not knowing where it was, and I just did a quick look, and could not find it. I will look later and post if i find it. It was done by two guys and kind of a fun way to pick which car was better.
gajagfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 07:06 AM   #15
Bosse'sBoss
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT, '02 Porsche 911
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 214
Talking

Is because you are looking at a '10 shelby gt500 not the new '13 gt500. There is a big difference in performance. The 13 GT500 is in the ZL1 league, not in the 1LE league.
Bosse'sBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 07:18 AM   #16
x1sniper3x
 
x1sniper3x's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 CRT 2SS/1LE; 2005 Cobalt
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss View Post
Is because you are looking at a '10 shelby gt500 not the new '13 gt500. There is a big difference in performance. The 13 GT500 is in the ZL1 league, not in the 1LE league.
http://fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_mus...gt500_659.html

2013 GT500: 3:00.60
2013 1LE: 2:58.34

Granted, the whole "Different Driver, Different Day" Rule applies here because I find it hard to believe the 2013 is slower than the 2010 but them be the lap times. Regardless, they're closer than most people would consider them to be considering power, price, etc.
__________________
x1sniper3x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 07:19 AM   #17
MEDISIN

 
MEDISIN's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 CTS-V Sedan
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss View Post
Is because you are looking at a '10 shelby gt500 not the new '13 gt500. There is a big difference in performance. The 13 GT500 is in the ZL1 league, not in the 1LE league.
The '13 GT500 is faster around VIR than the 1LE: 2013 Lightning Lap

Still the 1LE puts to shame cars that cost 2-3X. It's been funny reading the BMW/Audi/Porsche forums and the lamenting over the beating this $37k car hands out. This plus the ATS, C7, Z28 are cementing the fact that the General is killing it in chassis/handling right now. Zee Germans are especially annoyed by it. Makes it hard to justify charging so much for their offerings...but zee interiors, zee interiors are more refined lol
__________________
2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid and Tune by R.P.M. = 515 hp/487 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft.

"Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree
MEDISIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 07:50 AM   #18
tramtwo


 
tramtwo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: N'Awlinz
Posts: 6,299
The 1LE has done a 2:58 around VIR. No mustang has a faster time than that, with any driver on any day. The GT500 is NOT faster around the VIR than the SS equipped with the 1LE.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
__________________
tramtwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 08:03 AM   #19
hcsi99
Cadillac Service Manager
 
hcsi99's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1SS, 1LE, NPP, RECAROS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 497
I think the biggest variable is the driver. I'm sure a pro driver in a V6 mustang would beat me at VIR if I was in a 1Le.
hcsi99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 AM   #20
tramtwo


 
tramtwo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: N'Awlinz
Posts: 6,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcsi99 View Post
I think the biggest variable is the driver. I'm sure a pro driver in a V6 mustang would beat me at VIR if I was in a 1Le.

Wait till you get you car.... your mind will change.
__________________
tramtwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 08:33 AM   #21
hcsi99
Cadillac Service Manager
 
hcsi99's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1SS, 1LE, NPP, RECAROS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 497
I say this only because I've been an autocrosser for 10 plus years and always felt a lot of joy when I would beat a Viper, Corvette, GTR, by 4 seconds only because the drive didn't know what he was doing. On the other hand I get beat by a national champion G stock driver driving a Stock Celica by 2 seconds when I'm driving a well prepped STX WRX. I know what I'm doing but I'm no national driver. Can't wait for my car!
hcsi99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 09:53 AM   #22
markgws6

 
markgws6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,065
Some cars have advantages like all wheel drive or more power than the 1LE. However, when equipped with a good driver the 1LE can walk away with the best of them! It's only 6 or so seconds slower around VIR than the newest Z51 Corvette with a good driver. It's a muscle car that can handle with the best hands down, full stop. Well done GM!!
__________________
2013 AGM 1SS/1LE, NPP, Camera
(1 of 43)

CAI intake, Apex cold air scoop and washer bottle, ZR1 diff fluid, Hawk Street-Race Pads, Motul RBF 600, Russell steel brake lines, skip-shift override, SRP Pedals, No trunk or hood insulation, No Spare tire inflator (at the track), NPP fuse pull, octane fuse reset
markgws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 09:58 AM   #23
hcsi99
Cadillac Service Manager
 
hcsi99's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1SS, 1LE, NPP, RECAROS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 497
By far the best bang for the buck!
hcsi99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #24
Blizzard
Searching for the truth
 
Blizzard's Avatar
 
Drives: 85 K-10, 13 1LE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEDISIN View Post
The '13 GT500 is faster around VIR than the 1LE: 2013 Lightning Lap

Still the 1LE puts to shame cars that cost 2-3X. It's been funny reading the BMW/Audi/Porsche forums and the lamenting over the beating this $37k car hands out. This plus the ATS, C7, Z28 are cementing the fact that the General is killing it in chassis/handling right now. Zee Germans are especially annoyed by it. Makes it hard to justify charging so much for their offerings...but zee interiors, zee interiors are more refined lol
I would like to see the time after 5 laps and then 10 laps. I bet for continues laps the 1LE starts to walk away.
__________________
2013 1LE 1SS RS TPW 4/29
Blizzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 12:05 PM   #25
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 3,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
HP doesn't mean that much on that kind of track. The 500 has piss poor tires, wheels and suspension compared to the 1LE or ZL1. Theres a big difference between power and usable power.
Maybe not quite "piss-poor", but not much above "adequate for most folks' real-world driving" either. Nowhere near enough tire (especially front, considering that ugly 57% front weight distribution) or wheel width (either end).


Quote:
Originally Posted by scubadoo7 View Post
Also, Fords solid rear axle is total fail on road course.
Not necessarily. Consensus is that it's still better for that purpose than the Camaro SS as long as you can stay off the FIA curbs. Fail is when you can't avoid the bumps (particularly with the Mustang's OE shocks). I'm assuming all-OE wheels, tires, and suspensions for both cars here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris6067 View Post
A big part of why the 1LE does so good on the track is because of it's Independent Rear Suspension, which is no secret to anyone.
It takes more than simply "having IRS". You still have to put the handling balance in the right place with enough tire (and wheel) at both ends of the car. The SS still has IRS, but has neither enough front tire nor a light enough amount of understeer. Again, all OE.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSS View Post
There was a new GT500 at a recent track day, and not only was my 1LE significantly faster... so was a Boss 302 LS that was there (and a Volvo wagon...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcsi99 View Post
I think the biggest variable is the driver.
This ↑↑↑



Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.