Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HRE Wheels
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2014, 11:50 PM   #1
cbravoSS
 
cbravoSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 34
1LE Upgrade With SS Staggered Wheels?

(13 SS)
I checked out the 1LE upgrade Part# : 23123397 from the dealer and there was no mention of a requirement to change the wheels to a squared setup. Is this necessary? Would installing the 1LE upgrade package help or hurt performance if I leave the staggered 20's on the car?

Would the following be a better setup?
BMR Level 2 Handling Performance Package
BMR Trailing Arms with Poly Bushings
BMR Adjustable Toe Rods with Poly Bushings
BMR Sway Bar End Link Kit (front and rear)
Strut Tower Brace

All of the BMR stuff and tower brace will be more money than the 1LE kit installed. I daily drive the car and just want really good handling and to reliably put power to the pavement. The car will more than likely never see a road course but I drive it aggressively and want it to handle well.

Which would be the better option for long term reliability, maintenance and performance?
cbravoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 12:42 AM   #2
shibbs
Captain Gingerbeard
 
shibbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 IOM RS/SS 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: West Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,576
With the 1LE setup, you'll just be more prone to understeer, which your stock suspension is already.

A square setup makes it much more neutral.
shibbs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 07:30 AM   #3
Scott@Bjorn3D


 
Scott@Bjorn3D's Avatar
 
Drives: Kami, 2013 2SS LS3 Luvin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Eufaula, Alabama
Posts: 6,334
Send a message via MSN to Scott@Bjorn3D
Move to a square setup as soon as you can. I noticed the understeer got greater when the suspension was put on. Went square setup and the freaking handling is totally amazing. I like it better than ZL1's I have driven. I have been debating between ZL1 and just adding a blower to mine. I am leaning towards blower since mine now handles so well.
__________________
2013 2SS, GM Strut Tower Brace, CAI Intake Black, VMAX TB, Elite Catch Can, Hotchkis Chassis Brace, Hurst Shifter, 3.91 1LE Complete Rear End, NPP, 1LE Track Pack,Factory Reproductions Style 41 ZL1 Fitment Wheels 10" on all 4 corners, MPSS 285/35/20 on all 4 corners.
Scott@Bjorn3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 07:43 AM   #4
olblue75

 
olblue75's Avatar
 
Drives: Inferno Orange 2SS/RS LS-3
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Clarksville Tennesse.
Posts: 2,084
I'm running a square setup on mine with 20x9s with 275s all around an working on getting 1LE setup but seems a lot better just running square.
olblue75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:14 PM   #5
cbravoSS
 
cbravoSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 34
I may have no way out except to buy new wheels if it will increase understeer with the staggered setup.

Would an aftermarket handling package improve handling overall or would it just increase understeer as well if I stay with the staggered wheels?

I'm old school when it comes to shiny chrome or the dark wheels that come standard with the RS package so I paid for the chrome wheels so I'd hate to pull them off and never use them again. I don't want to sell them either but they would be useless and just sit in the garage. I didn't think about suspension upgrades when I bought the car. I never thought I would upgrade because it handled so well compared to the old muscle cars I grew up driving.

I'm adding bolt on's now and in the future I hope to be able to upgrade to a supercharger so I figured the suspension would need a little work. I was just hoping to increase cornering capability and traction since I've grown tired of just going fast in a straight line.
cbravoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:44 PM   #6
Cuda7050
 
Cuda7050's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 672
I ran the 1LE set up with the stock staggered wheels for a while, it handled fine on the road course and autocross, but I did have the Pedders aggressive street alignment. Then I went to a square set up with stock alignment and it had way more understeer. The square set up, 1le package and aggressive alignment ultimately provided the best set up, but do not under estimate the importance of running 1.2-1.7 negative front camber, I believe it can cancel out the understeer effects of a staggered wheel set up. In my opinion, the square set up provides a very nice drive, but only marginal performance benefits. Additionally, you should add cradle bushings to your set up. They are absolutely necessary and probably the first thing you do for handling.
__________________
Buttonwillow 2:23.736
Sacramento Raceway 12.89 at 112 mph
Thunderhill 2:22.242
Cuda7050 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:54 PM   #7
wakespeak

 
Drives: 2013 2SS LS3/NPP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 920
I have many of the 1LE components installed and understeer is not an issue with the standard SS wheels. I am seeing the front tires are working harder, but in daily driving it corners on rails.

One option is to install the ZL1 front bar, which is in between the SS and the 1LE because the ZL1 has staggered wheels. The rear bar is the same ZL1/1LE. The 23mm FE4 front bar on your 2013 is a big improvement over the FE3 so you can just keep that one as an option also.

I almost stopped with just the rear bar, which on its own fixed the body roll and made the car a lot more fun. However the rear toe links made a bigger difference than I thought. I haven't noticed much difference in daily driving after installing the 1LE front bar other than quick turn in. I think the tower brace may be a requirement once you install the stiffer front bar.
__________________
NPP, 1LE front (27mm)/rear (28mm) stabilizer bars, ZL1/1LE rear toe Links, ZL1/1LE shifter, Apex catch can, 1LE oil separator, Goodridge stainless steel brake lines,1LE strut tower brace
wakespeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 12:35 AM   #8
cbravoSS
 
cbravoSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 34
This is great information and encouraging. So I think I'll go with the 1LE kit and if the understeer is to much just swap out the front bar with a ZL1 bar. I'll also upgrade the cradle bushings and install a tower brace while I'm at it.

Will a standard alignment work or will I need to have something out of the ordinary?

I appreciate all of the replies. It has really helped.
cbravoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 09:12 AM   #9
Cuda7050
 
Cuda7050's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 672
A standard alignment will work, but if you want to further improve cornering go with the Pedders or PFADT aggressive street alignment. There is a sticky thread in the suspension section with the specs. Make sure the alignment shop you use is familiar with theses cars, there is something nonstandard about our cars which makes it more difficult to achieve aggressive alignment specs.
__________________
Buttonwillow 2:23.736
Sacramento Raceway 12.89 at 112 mph
Thunderhill 2:22.242
Cuda7050 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 02:11 PM   #10
JDP Sales

 
JDP Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevys at the limit
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 9,181
With you having a staggered wheel/tire setup, I would not go with the 1LE setup. Go with the ZL1 bars or an aftermarket set.

In my opinion, you'll get better results by piecing an aftermarket kit together. Feel free to call, PM or email me anytime with questions and I'll be happy to help you put together a package to meet your goals and budget.

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007
__________________

Click HERE to send a PM | sales@jdpmotorsports.com | www.jdpmotorsports.com | 801.545.4215
JDP Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 07:32 PM   #11
cbravoSS
 
cbravoSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 34
Could you explain why you would'nt go with the 1LE kit? I'm not trying to be argumentative, there just seems to be a difference in opinion. Wakespeak and Cuda both have 1LE parts installed and don't seem to have trouble and Cuda took his to the track with staggered wheels.


I doubt I'll take my car to the track but I want to improve handling and make the car more fun to drive. I daily drive the car so my biggest concerns are:
  • Will the 1LE kit improve handling with the stock staggered wheels installed
  • Is it unsafe in any way with the staggered wheels
  • Will there be any extra stress or premature wear to other parts or tires?
  • Will I create maintenance problems by installing the kit.
I don't expect the kit to make an SS perform exactly like a 1LE. The gearing is different and I think the fuel pump is different and of course wheels and tires. I found a place where I can buy the kit for 1050.00 so if I install it myself that price is hard to beat if there is a big improvement in handling.
cbravoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 08:22 PM   #12
OmniCamaro
US Veteran
 
OmniCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Silver Ice Metallic 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bossier City, La
Posts: 1,143
Great post cbravoSS! I'm also interested in the same exact answers.
__________________
Dear Lord, give me the strength to carry on despite my Camaro addiction!
JRE iTSX tune, full cat-less Dynatech exhaust, CAI intake, Stillen Slotted/Drilled Rotors, RB braided brake lines, BMR lowering springs, 1LE suspension, (reserved for future MODS)
OmniCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 09:25 PM   #13
2012LS3VERT


 
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 908
I wish I could find the kit for $1050, I've been looking. To answer:
Yes, handling will improve.
No, it will not be unsafe. It will have (possibly) more understeer, that is all.
No extra wear with stockish alignment settings. I'd do a little more aggressive camber up front to help with understeer.
No extra maintenence problems. Probably less than stock if you have a tendency to push your car hard.
2012LS3VERT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 06:50 PM   #14
JDP Sales

 
JDP Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevys at the limit
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 9,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbravoSS View Post
Could you explain why you would'nt go with the 1LE kit? I'm not trying to be argumentative, there just seems to be a difference in opinion. Wakespeak and Cuda both have 1LE parts installed and don't seem to have trouble and Cuda took his to the track with staggered wheels.


I doubt I'll take my car to the track but I want to improve handling and make the car more fun to drive. I daily drive the car so my biggest concerns are:
  • Will the 1LE kit improve handling with the stock staggered wheels installed
  • Is it unsafe in any way with the staggered wheels
  • Will there be any extra stress or premature wear to other parts or tires?
  • Will I create maintenance problems by installing the kit.
I don't expect the kit to make an SS perform exactly like a 1LE. The gearing is different and I think the fuel pump is different and of course wheels and tires. I found a place where I can buy the kit for 1050.00 so if I install it myself that price is hard to beat if there is a big improvement in handling.
Not saying the 1LE kit won't be an improvement, but the 1LE sway bars will not work well with a staggered wheel and tire setup at the limits. The front bar will be too stiff and will understeer. The goal is to get the car to be neutral and when traction lets go, it happens evenly up front and in the rear. Since you won't be tracking the car it's unlikely that you'll find the understeer, but the setup will not be ideal and turn-in will suffer if you ever do push it.

Going with a good set of adjust sway bars, subframe bushings, upper control arm bushings, toe rods, trailing arms and radius inserts will be about the same what you'll be spending on the 1LE kit if you choose the parts wisely, and would perform better.

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007
JDP Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 12:43 AM   #15
wakespeak

 
Drives: 2013 2SS LS3/NPP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 920
You will have a heck of a time getting the 1LE front bar back out if you change your mind. It is hard enough to get it installed due to its fat diameter. The 1LE package is designed for a balanced tire size. If you want to stay staggered go ZL1 bars or aftermarket IMO.
__________________
NPP, 1LE front (27mm)/rear (28mm) stabilizer bars, ZL1/1LE rear toe Links, ZL1/1LE shifter, Apex catch can, 1LE oil separator, Goodridge stainless steel brake lines,1LE strut tower brace
wakespeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 09:40 PM   #16
cbravoSS
 
cbravoSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 34
Again thanks for all the replies. I have some thinking to do and once I make a decision and install the 1LE components or aftermarket I'll reply with results.

May take a while though. I still have to install some bolt on's that are sitting in the garage, get it tuned then get my bike tuned since I just changed the cams in it.
cbravoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 08:27 PM   #17
Muscle Car Lover


 
Muscle Car Lover's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS M6 "CHRISTINE"
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Boston Metro North
Posts: 2,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbravoSS View Post
Again thanks for all the replies. I have some thinking to do and once I make a decision and install the 1LE components or aftermarket I'll reply with results.

May take a while though. I still have to install some bolt on's that are sitting in the garage, get it tuned then get my bike tuned since I just changed the cams in it.
Did you ever do this kit install?
__________________
"You don't seem to understand the situation"

"I understand that if any more words come pouring out your $#&^ mouth.... I'm going to have to eat every fu%$^ing chicken in this room."

"You lived your life for the king, your gonna die for some chickens?"

"Someone is"
Muscle Car Lover is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.