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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:18 AM   #26
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You guys are missing the point, the CGM is the fastest of all the street cars, ask Darth Emma. It's not about the drivetrain, it's about the color. Geesh, thought we settled this months ago.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:22 AM   #27
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You guys are missing the point, the CGM is the fastest of all the street cars, ask Darth Emma. It's not about the drivetrain, it's about the color. Geesh, thought we settled this months ago.
My favorite question to ask girls: " what car do you have?" their response: "I don't know, its white"
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:31 AM   #28
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Manual is great when you are young until you figure out that you can have a lot more fun with the pretty lady sitting next to you while not having to shift constantly...

Then you get older and so does she and boy that manual sure is fun again... then again, she still is too.

So you choose... fast car over a fast girl or do you want both and do you want to play with both at the same time.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:33 AM   #29
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L99 vs. LS3 in bumper to bumper / stop and go traffic need I say more
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:41 AM   #30
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Auto vs Manual

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Originally Posted by beebumble View Post
Manual is great when you are young until you figure out that you can have a lot more fun with the pretty lady sitting next to you while not having to shift constantly...

Then you get older and so does she and boy that manual sure is fun again... then again, she still is too.

So you choose... fast car over a fast girl or do you want both and do you want to play with both at the same time.
Guess my women has always been a good multi taskers! Just tell her what gear ya want!!
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:48 AM   #31
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Guess my women has always been a good multi taskers! Just tell her what gear ya want!!

Well that's easy, her hands are free for "shifting".
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:56 AM   #32
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L99 vs. LS3 in bumper to bumper / stop and go traffic need I say more
This what I was going to say.
Get stuck in a 2 hour traffic jam and then decide.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:12 AM   #33
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I keep hearing this over and over so I'll just ask...Please explain how you feel more in control with a manual.
As good as AT shift programming has become, it's still based on somebody else's idea of when the shifts should be made and how firmly they are to be accomplished. These days, there is a fuel economy agenda built in to AT programming (think slightly earlier upshifts under some conditions) that is obviously absent with manual transmissions.

For me anyway, it doesn't even matter if/when the that other person's (committee's ?) shift programming might be better than my own natural shift timing - that it's still going to be a little different most of the time is what can make this a little like having a tiny grain of sand in your shoe that you can't find. Just a constant irritation and a reminder that I'm not the only one driving my car.

I doubt it possible to develop a "learning" mode for automatic transmission shifting that could accurately anticipate the way I'd naturally execute the next upshift or downshift sequence. The best it could ever do is react to what it thinks I might be up to, and many times it will guess wrong. Guaranteed (even I can't make that sort of prediction with anything approaching certainty).

Manually shifting an automatic doesn't feel or behave the same - it will be modified by what you're doing with the throttle in ways that a MT cannot be.


Consider this . . . I doubt many AT drivers are aware that it is possible to rev-match a manually commanded AT downshift and avoid the forward lurch that otherwise occurs, but it absolutely is possible. However, your own timing of what to do with your right foot is much more critical than it is with a conventional MT, else you'll lurch forward anyway if you kick the gas too late, or backward if you kick the gas too soon. Remember that you don't have clutch pedal modulation available to smooth out any minor timing or rpm errors from what you did with the throttle.


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Old 09-17-2013, 07:19 AM   #34
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Buying an automatic V8 camaro is like buying a Ferrari without an engine. I have had both. I had one automatic Formula and three or four manual Trans Ams. The manuals were always more fun. The times Chevy lists in their brochures shows the manual being slightly quicker if that means anything to you. I'f i drove in constant stop and go traffic, I may prefer an automatic but thankfully my drive is not too bad. Drive both and see which one you like.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:20 AM   #35
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The simple fact is: A bone stock L99 vs bone stock LS3, same body type, equally matched drivers, standing 1/4 mile... L99 wins.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:25 AM   #36
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[QUOTE=Norm Peterson;7009434]

I doubt it possible to develop a "learning" mode for automatic transmission shifting that could accurately anticipate the way I'd naturally execute the next upshift or downshift sequence. The best it could ever do is react to what it thinks I might be up to, and many times it will guess wrong. Guaranteed (even I can't make that sort of prediction with anything approaching certainty).

/QUOTE]

The A6 trans don't "learn" your personal driving habits, but they do have Adaptive programing. Granted there are preset limits to the programing, but the harder you drive them in Sport mode the programing will adjust itself. When you are pushing it, it will hold gears longer and shift harder, and try to predict what your next move will be and try to adjust itself. That's what all the preloading the fluids for the next gear is all about in the 6L90e used in the ZL1.

So I have read ... And the A6 in the ZL1 acts a lot different than the programing in the SS.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:35 AM   #37
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... And the A6 in the ZL1 acts a lot different than the programing in the SS.
I'm thinking the A6 in the ZL1 doesn't have AFM interfering with it's performance.

Driving a A6 SS in Sport Mode totally changes the feel and performance vs. Drive Mode. Installing a Range AFM Deactivator device eliminates AFM completely.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:36 AM   #38
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The simple fact is: A bone stock L99 vs bone stock LS3, same body type, equally matched drivers, standing 1/4 mile... L99 wins.
Very true, but at the same time, the way the ls3 feels is so much different.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:47 AM   #39
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Very true, but at the same time, the way the ls3 feels is so much different.
Of course... and I totally understand the joy of shifting. I drove manuals for many years (both floor and column). I'm just a little defensive when folks imply automatics are something less than manly. So, I always like to reply with the A6 beats M6 in 1/4 mile argument which, I guess would imply... losing is more manly than winning.

Just kidding around
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:52 AM   #40
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Of course... and I totally understand the joy of shifting. I drove manuals for many years (both floor and column). I'm just a little defensive when folks imply automatics are something less than manly. So, I always like to reply with the A6 beats M6 in 1/4 mile argument which, I guess would imply... losing is more manly than winning.

Just kidding around
Totally agree, that's why I have an auto.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #41
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It all comes down to preference, your skill level, and what you want out of your car. Are you skilled at driving and shifting? Do you want to drag race or autocross? Do you want bragging rights? Do you just want to have fun?

I have a manual, and this is my first daily driver that is a stick so my shifting skills aren't the greatest yet. I'm sure I would get beat by an automatic. I also drive in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic frequently. That said, I still wouldn't trade by stick for an automatic. I drove my father in law's Camaro for a couple of days. His is a V6 RS like mine, but his is an auto. It completely changes the character of the car. I felt like I was driving any old car with his, it took the fun and the character out of the experience. I suppose if you had the V8 it would make up for some of it, but for me it killed the Camaro experience.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:08 AM   #42
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The simple fact is: A bone stock L99 vs bone stock LS3, same body type, equally matched drivers, standing 1/4 mile... L99 wins.
Not according to the chevy brochure....for whatever that's worth.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #43
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It all comes down to preference, your skill level, and what you want out of your car. Are you skilled at driving and shifting? Do you want to drag race or autocross? Do you want bragging rights? Do you just want to have fun?

I have a manual, and this is my first daily driver that is a stick so my shifting skills aren't the greatest yet. I'm sure I would get beat by an automatic. I also drive in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic frequently. That said, I still wouldn't trade by stick for an automatic. I drove my father in law's Camaro for a couple of days. His is a V6 RS like mine, but his is an auto. It completely changes the character of the car. I felt like I was driving any old car with his, it took the fun and the character out of the experience. I suppose if you had the V8 it would make up for some of it, but for me it killed the Camaro experience.
While I'm not bashing the v6......you really can't compare it to the v8...even an auto.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:22 AM   #44
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While I'm not bashing the v6......you really can't compare it to the v8...even an auto.
Well I've driven a couple SS autos as well, but it was before I owned mine so I'd have to drive one again to really say. I thought the point of the thread was manual vs. auto, but why do you say you can't compare V8 to V6? Is 324 vs. 400 hp really so great that they can't be compared? I notice you also just say V8 not SS or ZL1. Is 400 and 580 hp basically the same and not worth distinguishing?
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:37 AM   #45
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Well I've driven a couple SS autos as well, but it was before I owned mine so I'd have to drive one again to really say. I thought the point of the thread was manual vs. auto, but why do you say you can't compare V8 to V6? Is 324 vs. 400 hp really so great that they can't be compared? I notice you also just say V8 not SS or ZL1. Is 400 and 580 hp basically the same and not worth distinguishing?
Oh no, BIG difference between ss and zl1..no doubt....we are getting off topic though. I love my auto, wouldn't trade it for a stick. That'sjust me though.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:47 AM   #46
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Was in for service this morning. The ZL1 is still the only manual they have on the lot. I tried 2 dealerships before I bought mine. The first one had a $29k bare bones LS manual and a +$40k SS manual. First was just to dull. Second was out of my budget.
Second dealership only had a $65k ZL1 manual, way out of my budget. I guess they just don't sell around here, or they go so quick you never see them.

The first salesman said 50% can't learn to drive them. 25% don't want to learn. Doesn't leave a big market for them.

I miss my manual! Only regret about buying the Camaro. Almost wish I bought the BRZ limited I was planning on.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:57 AM   #47
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A manual adds to the fun factor for me. Not much worried about which is faster...
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:30 AM   #48
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I purely choose an automatic over how much I drive. I drive quite a lot and as my daily driver I don't feel like being stuck in stop and go, which I constantly am and driving a manual. If I only had the cash I'd just buy an automatic and a manual camaro! Haha
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:04 AM   #49
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Based on my commuting, the automatic is for me. I guess when I graduate from college I can start saving for a manual corvette for that fun factor. Although I still think the automatic camaro is a hell lot of fun already.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #50
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Manual vs Automatic, think it depends on where you are located. When I see a thread like this there might be a difference between urban dwellers and not so urban dwellers. Preference between manual and automatic might be based on your daily drive.

I learned how to drive a floor shift when I was 15 years old in my older brothers MG roadster back in the 1960s dark ages. My first new manual floor shift was a new 1970 Nova SS, and loved manual floor shift, "learned how to speed shift just by sound of engine".

Over the decades (45+ years) I have been driving in urban city stop & go traffic (Miami, Richmond, Houston, NYC twice, Philadelphia, Dallas, now Ottawa) and found an automatic transmission a good option to have in city stop and go traffic.

Admit I like manual speed shifting but the manual trans less then fun if daily driving in urban stop and go traffic and your max speed might be only 50 mph between stop lights and you continue to clutch between gears.

Love my 2LT, I am an urban driver so a manual shift is a -, same reason a SS V8 is a - because I have few to no opportunties to experience the V8 hp. My three year old daily driver (winter/summer) 2011 2LT, ordered my way is only at about 5,400 miles mostly driven in urban stop-in-go traffic. V6, A6 perfect for my daily driving.

I paid cash for my "made my way" preorder Camaro 2LT, A6. Could have paid cash for an SS with RS & with manual. I preordered my 2011 2LT back in May 2010 to fit my driving. A poser is one who buys a high performance auto just because it is high performance but driving habits does not warrent all that HP or use of manual floor shift.

Let the hate responses begin.
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