Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-14-2016, 05:32 PM   #1
matar123
 
matar123's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS Ls3 Cammed/Blown
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 170
Does this make any sense?

My Camaro is lowered on 1.4" bmr springs and koni orange shocks and struts. I also have bmr non adjustable toe rods and non adjustable trailing arms that I installed on my car yesterday. After the installation I went to the alignment shop and they told me that the only way they could fix my alignment would be if I bought adjustable rear lower control arms. Does this make sense? I thought you could just by the parts and install them and be fine after an alignment.

I would really appreciate any help I could get.

Thanks
matar123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 06:22 PM   #2
SS/RS2010
 
SS/RS2010's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 288
I don't know enough to say whether that shop is right or not, all I know is these cars nowadays have gotten extremely complicated. A second opinion from another shop may help.
SS/RS2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 06:31 PM   #3
Olddudesrule
Resident nomad
 
Olddudesrule's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Summit White 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,352
Where's Pete when you need him...

I'm sure he'll answer eventually, and will most likely tell you that shop didn't know how to align the car properly.
__________________
Sold:
2007 Z06
2002 Viper GTS/ACR
2003 Z06
1965 FFR Cobra
2012 Nissan 370Z

Roto-Fad CAI, Kooks LTH/HFC's, Phastek CC, ported TB, BC Racing ER Series CO's, R1 Concepts Premier slotted rotors/Goodrich SS lines, Schroth ASM harness, MGW flatstick, Brey-Krause HB, DynoSteve tune.
Olddudesrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 09:59 PM   #4
flyer08
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,420
From my understanding you need adjustable toe rods if using the non-adjustable BMR lca. I'd give BMR a call in morning and verify though
flyer08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 10:51 PM   #5
Black_SS10
 
Black_SS10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 736
I installed everything in my sig myself and got it aligned at a shop with no issues except the front. Which is no fault of the camaro, a combination of rims/tires and choice of coilovers. I am lowered about 1.5inches and the rear had all the adjustment I needed. BTW I used Pedders aggressive street alignment specs and not stock. You should be able to get it within spec, if not you may need to purchase new eccentric bolts from JPSS (JusticePete). These replace your factory lower control arm ones and give a greater range of adjustment.
__________________
'10 2SS/RS 6M, Blacked out lights, Technostalgia tail lights, MGW short shifter, Vararam tuned intake, JDP Clutch Reservoir, Elite catch can, Kooks 1 7/8 LT, Kooks HFC, Flowmaster Outlaw catback, VMAX Thottle body, SCTX4/Tuned by DynoSteve, DSS aluminum driveshaft, Pegasus subframe bushings, BMR trailing and toe arms, Z28 upper control arm bushings, FE4/Zl1 rear sway bar, Prothane radius arm inserts, BMR steering rack bushing, Goodridge stainless steel brake lines, Ridetech HQ level 2 coilovers, 1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in CCW 505A,Continental Extreme Contact Sports
Black_SS10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 11:08 PM   #6
CamaroDreams76
Tri-County Camaro SWFL
 
CamaroDreams76's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South West FL
Posts: 1,995
From my understanding.......the factory stuff is all solid, non adjustable and you can get an alignment done.

I know toe links have a bolt that can adjust the toe either negative or positive. BMR and Pfadt and all the other suspension companies say to mark the eccentric washer and nut to get as close to factory spec as possible. So it doesn't make sense that you cant get an alignment done at least within factory spec.
__________________
CamaroDreams76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 12:31 AM   #7
matar123
 
matar123's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS Ls3 Cammed/Blown
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 170
Where could I go to get it done then?
matar123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 02:04 PM   #8
Black_SS10
 
Black_SS10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by matar123 View Post
Where could I go to get it done then?
For starters a shop that knows what their doing. I would research for performance shops and ask them where they do their alignments. Those places will know more about how to properly align your car. I know Firestone wouldn't touch my car....not that I would let them anyways. You may have to find a smaller shop that specializes in alignments and suspension.
__________________
'10 2SS/RS 6M, Blacked out lights, Technostalgia tail lights, MGW short shifter, Vararam tuned intake, JDP Clutch Reservoir, Elite catch can, Kooks 1 7/8 LT, Kooks HFC, Flowmaster Outlaw catback, VMAX Thottle body, SCTX4/Tuned by DynoSteve, DSS aluminum driveshaft, Pegasus subframe bushings, BMR trailing and toe arms, Z28 upper control arm bushings, FE4/Zl1 rear sway bar, Prothane radius arm inserts, BMR steering rack bushing, Goodridge stainless steel brake lines, Ridetech HQ level 2 coilovers, 1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in CCW 505A,Continental Extreme Contact Sports
Black_SS10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 03:01 PM   #9
JusticePete

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 19,858
The Book of 5th Gen Camaro is getting an update.

http://www.jpssonline.com/the-book-f...-2010-camaro-2

5th Gen Camaro Alignment, Bushing Timing and Torque Specifications

DO NOT USE OFFSET CAMBER BOLTS ON THE 2010 - 2015 5TH GEN CAMARO. The OE clevis bolts are much stronger and the offset bolts are NOT needed with an excellent system installed at the factory.



This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.





It isn't pretty, but it was laying around the shop so we used it. A bolt this large is ONLY for use on the alignment rack and should be removed before driving.



This is a JPSS style Camber Screw. We recommend using LocTite blue to prevent it from backing out. Note that in this picture you can see the upper hole in the factory strut is elongated for camber adjustment.

On the alignment rack, any 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt will do. The correct way is to use a JPSS style Camber Screw with blue LocTite. Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag.



It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use offset camber bolts on a Camaro. EVER!

JPSS foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are suspension specialists committed to delivering a JPSS Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what JPSS is all about. Our solution is a set of Black Magic JPSS Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local JPSS Dealer can create a slot to provide Caster adjustment with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.

For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like the Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. JPSS made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.




In Step #1 the technician may choose to drill two holes, one on either side of the factory hole before grinding a slot shape. Other techs will just grind the slot.



The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a JPSS Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is JPSS dead nuts on.



We use black chromate plating on our Camber Bolts. We used a gold tone bolt in this image to make it easier to see.

When assembled the plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A well aligned Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same JPSS Caster Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. When the tires have been confirmed good, we can make adjustments on the alignment rack.

For those that track the 5th Gen Camaro we have created Black Magic Caster Locks. Using a Caster Lock there is no possibility drift under the most demanding driving conditions. Installation of the Caster Locks is very similar. The slot is ground forward toward the radiator.



There are four Caster Lock plates that are installed on both sides of each radius arm bushing. We used a raw bare aluminum plate for this illustration.



Increasing caster improves straight line stability and the return of the wheels to the on center position. Adding caster to the 5th Gen is highly desirable.

Alignments are JPSS core business. We offer the JPSS Black Magic Caster, Rear Camber and Front Camber Screws. When installing the JPSS Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out.



JPSS Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with 1.8 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, JPSS alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a JPSS eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with JPSS Camaro Alignment Bolts.

To get the aggressive alignments we prefer JPSS Black Magic Camber and Caster Bolts and Camber Screws are essential. They double the adjustment range . We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have coated in black chromate.




Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of JPSS Knockout Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allows it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With JPSS Knockout Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the strut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

JPSS are a Knock Out by design, construction and function. The bearing plates are made of stainless steel. The hardware is stainless steel. Our bearings are the finest made in America available. Of course none of this matters if they are not the most functional in the industry. It starts with a hard mount system. Some 5th Gen Camaro owners will cringe at the thought of drilling six mounting holes in their strut towers, but most will agree it makes sense when they understand why. We don't want it to move. Period. Anything that clamps in place can move on impact with a pothole or gator-back. Bolted in place, the only way to move a JPSS camber plate is to move the entire strut tower.

JPSS Knock Out Camber Plates deliver 2 full degrees of adjustment. Not 1 degree. Not 1 degree split between caster and camber. 2 full degrees. If you want to add caster, and we highly recommend you do, use our Caster Locks or of Caster Bolts. Camber plates on a 5th Gen Camaro are reserved for Camber and Steering Angle Inclination (SAI).

Steering axis inclination acts, with caster, to provide a self-centering of the front wheels. When the wheels are in the straight-ahead position, the ends of the stub axles are almost horizontal. When the wheels turn to either side, the effect of steering axis inclination is to make the ends of the stub axle tend to move downward, but this is prevented by the wheel. The stub axle carrier then must move up, which raises the front of the vehicle. When the steering wheel is released, the mass of the vehicle forces the stub carrier back down, which pushes the wheels back to a central position.



The SAI angle is created and measured in degrees. It runs from the lower ball joint through the upper ball joint, or on most front wheel vehicles, through the center of the strut mount. The illustration uses ball joints to represent the angle. This measurement of degrees includes the measurement from lower ball joint to the upper ball joint or the upper strut mount and true vertical (the tire actually sitting straight up and down). The SAI angle doesn't include the camber angle. This is because Steering Axis Inclination is a non-adjustable angle.

We recommend using the JPSS Knockout Camber Plates to increase SAI and adjust the majority of camber at the knuckle. Combine this with JPSS Caster Locks to achieve optimal front end geometry and handling.





Bushing Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment

On the alignment rack the technician must be aware that the rear lower control arm camber adjustment works against the toe link toe adjustment. The toe eccentrics should be set to a neutral position, the eccentric not touching the 'fences' when thee initial camber adjustment is made. Then the technician will work the two for the optimal split of camber and toe values.







Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values





NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are typically Torque to Yield (TTY) and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM, the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite

http://www.jpssonline.com/the-book-f...-2010-camaro-2
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 03:31 PM   #10
BMR Sales



 
BMR Sales's Avatar
 
Drives: Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seffner, FL
Posts: 4,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by matar123 View Post
My Camaro is lowered on 1.4" bmr springs and koni orange shocks and struts. I also have bmr non adjustable toe rods and non adjustable trailing arms that I installed on my car yesterday. After the installation I went to the alignment shop and they told me that the only way they could fix my alignment would be if I bought adjustable rear lower control arms. Does this make sense? I thought you could just by the parts and install them and be fine after an alignment.

I would really appreciate any help I could get.

Thanks
We just talked, I think going to the other shop you mentioned will help.

Our Non-adjustable Lower Control Arm is made specifically for lowered vehicles
__________________
T.C. Davis
tc@bmrsuspension.com
813-986-9302
BMR Sales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 03:39 PM   #11
JusticePete

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 19,858
He should not need any parts to get an alignment.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 05:41 PM   #12
matar123
 
matar123's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS Ls3 Cammed/Blown
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 170
Thanks for all the help guys took my car to a performance shop and I got everything sorted out never going to Goodyear tires again.



Thanks for all the helpful comments
matar123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2016, 07:02 PM   #13
Black_SS10
 
Black_SS10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by matar123 View Post
Thanks for all the help guys took my car to a performance shop and I got everything sorted out never going to Goodyear tires again.



Thanks for all the helpful comments
That is the key, performance shops. Exactly who BMR and JPSS are, they know their stuff. Those chain tire places do not always know best nor do they train the best, or give the best service. A lot of the people who work at those type of places do not have the passion and knowledge others do. Glad you got it sorted out!
__________________
'10 2SS/RS 6M, Blacked out lights, Technostalgia tail lights, MGW short shifter, Vararam tuned intake, JDP Clutch Reservoir, Elite catch can, Kooks 1 7/8 LT, Kooks HFC, Flowmaster Outlaw catback, VMAX Thottle body, SCTX4/Tuned by DynoSteve, DSS aluminum driveshaft, Pegasus subframe bushings, BMR trailing and toe arms, Z28 upper control arm bushings, FE4/Zl1 rear sway bar, Prothane radius arm inserts, BMR steering rack bushing, Goodridge stainless steel brake lines, Ridetech HQ level 2 coilovers, 1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in CCW 505A,Continental Extreme Contact Sports
Black_SS10 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.