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Old 09-20-2013, 09:18 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BiggFoot View Post
Nice thread Op. A buddy of mine has a 2012 Challenger SRT rated at 470 hp at the flywheel. He saw my Camaro once and ended up bringing his car over for me to drive. So we struck out in his car first, and it has a decent pull, but when we pulled mine out and he nailed it the first time I thought he was going to chit his pants. It was like night and day the difference in power. Granted I am running a supercharger and throwing 625 hp to the wheels, but even in the looks category which would you choose ?? Just saying . . .

Attachment 557856

Attachment 557857
Ok what one gosh darn tootin minnit...are you seriously comparing a NA 470 engine hp car to a 625 whp car?? LOL, come on man...
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:02 PM   #52
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2005 was the first year. There was no tunes or aftermarket parts yet. ..My friend has an ls3 ss.... we will compare times same day, track and da.... Like I said the da was - 2700 on that vid in atco...

Does your car have a gearing advantage on a LS3 SS? Excuse the ignorance but I am not super familiar with the srt cars.

For what reason other than traction would your car be as fast as a car that makes virtually the same or better power and a few hundred pounds lighter?

Why go back and forth with all the videos/he said she said, blah blah blah.

If it isnt geared considerably better stock for stock it is impossible for the srt to be faster...any instance in which the outcome is different is just a result of variables encountered in the real world.

The cars are close yes...but I would say the srt is as far behind the ss as the ss is behind the 5.0. A couple ticks. Which would also add up perfectly as each of these models were brought to the market to beat the others in succession. Chevy would not have made the ls3 camaro if it couldnt beat the dodge and ford at the time. Ford would not have made the mustang if it could not have beat the chevy at the time. And now we have the 392..is that not faster than the ls3 and the 6.1 srt? of coarse it is. Its power to weight ratio is superior.

In the end the cars are close enough that we have these arguments. But the reality is that in perfect conditions if everything could be done 100% fair and equal across the board it goes 5.0>ls3>srt

BTW...I would be very surprised if your friend with a manual tranny could match your automatic car most of the time. Much harder to run as fast and as conistent with the manual. But that doesnt mean your car is faster technically.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:06 PM   #53
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Ok what one gosh darn tootin minnit...are you seriously comparing a NA 470 engine hp car to a 625 whp car?? LOL, come on man...
I was about to say

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:16 PM   #54
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LOL cherry picked videos. All I asked you to do is find one cherry picked video of your own. Funny but I added a tune, CAI and headers to the L99 and ran a best of 12.8@109 so far. Incredibly similar to your best. So I'd say the 6.1 is a hell of a lot closer to a L99 Camaro than an LS3 Camaro or 5.0 Mustang. I have no problem admitting both of those out run me stock for stock. Try just admitting it. You can't beat em all in your "Factory Freak" LOL

I am the friend he is referring too and i just have been with him to the track with his srt, running him in my srt at the time. And aside from him being a DAMN good driver. I have seen his car running consistant 13.0's in the florida heat. Then he went and bought another one and was running the same numbers. I actually did think he had a factory freak until he did it with the super bee and that was with both cars bone stock. Best i could muster was 13.3 stock i believe. id have to dig up a run to post to verify

I would agree that maybe time wise the stock srt would be closer to an automatic camaro, but thats based purely on weight. the srt weighs 4300 plus driver and to even be able to be compared is a feat in itself to me personally. so i would not compare the stock engine times when there is such a big weight difference. so what you are saying is if you swapped the l99 into a charger it would still run the same numbers as a 6.1. I dont think so. The ls3 would have to be swapped over to come close to equalling out.

The stock srt also comes with a 3.06 gear for those asking. Idk if id wanna go up on gearing in a srt cause they dont have the luxury of the 6th gear as we do. they eat it on gas mileage.


The one thing i can say for the ls3 is i love how much power small mods make on these engines (headers for example). i would definitely have had to spend cosiderably more on the hemi just to make the power of a cam swap (headers and tune of course).

I know i will probably get flamed for "taking up" for a dodge guy, but ive owned every american make and have enjoyed different aspects of each. ive seen big block chevy "back half" cars keep up with pro mods, seen a n/a 6.1 hemi with cam and headers with serious weight reduction running 10's, and small block ford motors destroy big blocks. idk y people get so wrapped up in which is so much better when all can be made to be super badass
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:38 PM   #55
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Does your car have a gearing advantage on a LS3 SS? Excuse the ignorance but I am not super familiar with the srt cars.

For what reason other than traction would your car be as fast as a car that makes virtually the same or better power and a few hundred pounds lighter?

Why go back and forth with all the videos/he said she said, blah blah blah.

If it isnt geared considerably better stock for stock it is impossible for the srt to be faster...any instance in which the outcome is different is just a result of variables encountered in the real world.

The cars are close yes...but I would say the srt is as far behind the ss as the ss is behind the 5.0. A couple ticks. Which would also add up perfectly as each of these models were brought to the market to beat the others in succession. Chevy would not have made the ls3 camaro if it couldnt beat the dodge and ford at the time. Ford would not have made the mustang if it could not have beat the chevy at the time. And now we have the 392..is that not faster than the ls3 and the 6.1 srt? of coarse it is. Its power to weight ratio is superior.

In the end the cars are close enough that we have these arguments. But the reality is that in perfect conditions if everything could be done 100% fair and equal across the board it goes 5.0>ls3>srt

BTW...I would be very surprised if your friend with a manual tranny could match your automatic car most of the time. Much harder to run as fast and as conistent with the manual. But that doesnt mean your car is faster technically.

i like these comments that is y i cannot concede that the 6.1 engine is that much slower than the other engines. With the weight and real world conditions i would agree.

Also we just had a new track open today as a matter of fact. hes probably there now, but im stuck here at work talking to you knuckleheads. Lol Hopefully we can get there together between tomoro and next weekend and ill try to be as consistant as possible to "drag his ass" lol
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by LS3Freak View Post
I am the friend he is referring too and i just have been with him to the track with his srt, running him in my srt at the time. And aside from him being a DAMN good driver. I have seen his car running consistant 13.0's in the florida heat. Then he went and bought another one and was running the same numbers. I actually did think he had a factory freak until he did it with the super bee and that was with both cars bone stock. Best i could muster was 13.3 stock i believe. id have to dig up a run to post to verify

I would agree that maybe time wise the stock srt would be closer to an automatic camaro, but thats based purely on weight. the srt weighs 4300 plus driver and to even be able to be compared is a feat in itself to me personally. so i would not compare the stock engine times when there is such a big weight difference. so what you are saying is if you swapped the l99 into a charger it would still run the same numbers as a 6.1. I dont think so. The ls3 would have to be swapped over to come clo
se to equalling out.

The stock srt also comes with a 3.06 gear for those asking. Idk if id wanna go up on gearing in a srt cause they dont have the luxury of the 6th gear as we do. they eat it on gas mileage.


The one thing i can say for the ls3 is i love how much power small mods make on these engines (headers for example). i would definitely have had to spend cosiderably more on the hemi just to make the power of a cam swap (headers and tune of course).

I know i will probably get flamed for "taking up" for a dodge guy, but ive owned every american make and have enjoyed different aspects of each. ive seen big block chevy "back half" cars keep up with pro mods, seen a n/a 6.1 hemi with cam and headers with serious weight reduction running 10's, and small block ford motors destroy big blocks. idk y people get so wrapped up in which is so much better when all can be made to be super badass
Hey bud, you know I have to stir the pot.....lol
Like you, I have owned the big 3 just happens to be Mopar at the moment. ..
I want check out your new ride and run them before you mod. My stuff still in the garage..lol
When you thinking of going? Get the GoPro ready.........
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #57
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Hey bud, you know I have to stir the pot.....lol
Like you, I have owned the big 3 just happens to be Mopar at the moment. ..
I want check out your new ride and run them before you mod. My stuff still in the garage..lol
When you thinking of going? Get the GoPro ready.........
im finally off next weekend, only weekend ill have off for 6 weeks at least so i better head out there. i thought ud be there today.
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:40 PM   #58
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Flame you? You've pretty much agred with me. You said your buddy is a good driver and he did 13.0 Stock. He said He went 13-13.3! That makes it a low 13 second car with a good driver! My original statement was low to mid 13 second car! A good driver will put an LS3 Camaro in the 12.6-12.8 range consistantly. Same for the 5.0 Mustang. Both will have a 2-3 MPH trap advantage on a 6.1 SRT. I agree with your statement. All are bad ass. Some are just a little more bad ass than others right off the dealer lot.

I agree with that and the times you quote as well. i just wanted to clarify that it wasnt the engine that made it slower as opposed to the weight difference

here's a run not too long after i got my car it does have a cam swap in this vid but as per the numbers you quoted you will see the mph reflect the power increase. it has no cai or any other mods except a tune

http://youtu.be/UVxxkqNbLX4

as you can see i had a miserable 60' ( around 2.1-2.2) but it picked up on the big end. subtract 400-500 lbs and what would that run have been? better yet the stall shaved off close to a half second. Im simply saying that that engine imo was badass. it was just installed in a 4 door tank.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:12 PM   #59
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im finally off next weekend, only weekend ill have off for 6 weeks at least so i better head out there. i thought ud be there today.

I have my boys this weekend.......next sat or sun works for me. Text me
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #60
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Saw a Challenger RT at the track this week running low 14's, stock SS's were running 13.50's.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #61
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Nice thread Op. A buddy of mine has a 2012 Challenger SRT rated at 470 hp at the flywheel. He saw my Camaro once and ended up bringing his car over for me to drive. So we struck out in his car first, and it has a decent pull, but when we pulled mine out and he nailed it the first time I thought he was going to chit his pants. It was like night and day the difference in power. Granted I am running a supercharger and throwing 625 hp to the wheels, but even in the looks category which would you choose ?? Just saying . . .

Attachment 557856

Attachment 557857
Looks I'd choose the SRT, hands down compared to a SS.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:00 PM   #62
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headers , tune intake was a good race for a 2012 srt8 . i would pull him slightly. the 6.1 is no where close to the 6.4 and the 5.7 is a dog all around.

lt1 camaro territory vs a 5.7
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:18 PM   #63
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headers , tune intake was a good race for a 2012 srt8 . i would pull him slightly. the 6.1 is no where close to the 6.4 and the 5.7 is a dog all around.

lt1 camaro territory vs a 5.7
I don't remember any MAGS getting 13.5-13.6 from the LT1 like most did from the manual R/T and I don't remember any stock LT1s hitting 13.2s like some auto R/Ts have don't. Don't confuse car ability with driver ability........
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:10 AM   #64
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I don't remember any MAGS getting 13.5-13.6 from the LT1 like most did from the manual R/T and I don't remember any stock LT1s hitting 13.2s like some auto R/Ts have don't. Don't confuse car ability with driver ability........
On what planet are R/Ts running low 13s? They can barely even run a mid 13...
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #65
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Nice video, now how do you verify it's bone stock like claimed?????? Motor Trend and other magazines aren't going to lie about their tests like some bozo on the interwebs that wants the youtube world to believe he's the worlds best driver. We can go back and forth all day with this. If you think any 6.1 is equal to a LS3 Camaro or 5.0 Mustang your delusional. That's why dodge came out with the 392! To compete with the rest of the competition. The 6.1 wasn't cutting it.
392's pull hard up top.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:42 AM   #66
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On what planet are R/Ts running low 13s? They can barely even run a mid 13...

Buying an R/T is like buying a v6 mustang......total waste of money.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:26 AM   #67
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As an owner of a JGC SRT8 only car that has genuinely surprised me was a new 5.0 mustang, guy ran a low low 11 with few more tweaks he was in tens easy with bolt ons, no F/I. Just so you know though, the stock 392 aren't that great until they are tuned by someone who knows what they are doing, after that they are absolute monsters.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #68
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On what planet are R/Ts running low 13s? They can barely even run a mid 13...
Look up SRT8Tech (I believe) on here, amazing what the driver mod can do........... Also many on www.challengertalk.com have done it (ie Dodgetony who did it 4-5 years ago, again, driver mod). I am sorry, if ANYONE thinks a stock V6 mustang or Camaro are a match for an R/T, they are just dreaming. Also you lose a few 10ths to a Camaro SS in the 1/4 mile, but the R/T also is around 3000 bucks cheaper MSRP to MSRP. Let's be realistic here, i am not saying 13.2 for R/Ts and 12.2 for SRTs is the norm, it is not, but it DOES happen. the same as 12s are not the norm for SSs (come on, if you are halfway realistic you KNOW this is true). In reality most LS3s at the track low 13s at best and L99s mid 13s and in a lot of cases worse.........
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #69
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Look up SRT8Tech (I believe) on here, amazing what the driver mod can do........... Also many on www.challengertalk.com have done it (ie Dodgetony who did it 4-5 years ago, again, driver mod). I am sorry, if ANYONE thinks a stock V6 mustang or Camaro are a match for an R/T, they are just dreaming. Also you lose a few 10ths to a Camaro SS in the 1/4 mile, but the R/T also is around 3000 bucks cheaper MSRP to MSRP. Let's be realistic here, i am not saying 13.2 for R/Ts and 12.2 for SRTs is the norm, it is not, but it DOES happen. the same as 12s are not the norm for SSs (come on, if you are halfway realistic you KNOW this is true). In reality most LS3s at the track low 13s at best and L99s mid 13s and in a lot of cases worse.........
I'm not going to believe what any person on a forum say they can run especially when they claim to run half a second faster than other professional and respectable sources. Even on a glory hail Mary run in the dead of winter with a tail wind and all the planets aligned perfectly I would still put my money that a bone stock as factory R/T on OEM recommended tire pressure CANNOT run a 13.2. And I darn sure don't believe the SRT8 is getting a 12.2. Now maybe these guys have their own interpretation of the word "stock"...but I don't see those times happening not even for a second.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:20 AM   #70
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I'm not going to believe what any person on a forum say they can run especially when they claim to run half a second faster than other professional and respectable sources. Even on a glory hail Mary run in the dead of winter with a tail wind and all the planets aligned perfectly I would still put my money that a bone stock as factory R/T on OEM recommended tire pressure CANNOT run a 13.2. And I darn sure don't believe the SRT8 is getting a 12.2. Now maybe these guys have their own interpretation of the word "stock"...but I don't see those times happening not even for a second.
How is that 7/10s quicker? 13.2 is only around 3/10s quicker than what Motor trend and Car and Driver both got at 13.5 and those were manuals. ANYONE who knows about these cars knows the autos ARE quicker because the torque management in the manuals takes out a lot more power than what it does on the autos. So, you would believe a 12.6 from a stock SS that gets 13.0 in all the magazines, but not a 13.2 from a Challebnger that gets 13.5 in the magazines? R/Ts are NOT the dogs people here make them out to be. Maybe not the quickest one out there, but close enough giving it is 3k cheaper than it's competition and certainly quicker than the competitions V6s..... Sounds like some insecurity to me..........
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:43 PM   #71
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How is that 7/10s quicker? 13.2 is only around 3/10s quicker than what Motor trend and Car and Driver both got at 13.5 and those were manuals. ANYONE who knows about these cars knows the autos ARE quicker because the torque management in the manuals takes out a lot more power than what it does on the autos. So, you would believe a 12.6 from a stock SS that gets 13.0 in all the magazines, but not a 13.2 from a Challebnger that gets 13.5 in the magazines? R/Ts are NOT the dogs people here make them out to be. Maybe not the quickest one out there, but close enough giving it is 3k cheaper than it's competition and certainly quicker than the competitions V6s..... Sounds like some insecurity to me..........
No I don't believe a stock SS is getting a 12.6 either. Maybe a 12.9. And regardless of what you say, no an R/T is not running a 13.2. I'm not saying they are dogs. They are fast, just not as fast as an SS or GT. And that is due to its weight. However, when you factor in the HP and TQ they make, you can see that they are not fast. LS1 F-Bodys were running those same times with less hp, less tq, and less displacement. I trust the times from Motortrend and Car And Driver or any other magazine because they test cars EXACTLY as it is from the factory. Forum people lie all the time about stock this or stock internal that or whatever. And for the record, where did you get anywhere even close to insecurity from my statements? Sounds like you have no idea what insecurity is because there was nothing at all even remotely resembling insecurity in what I said.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:38 PM   #72
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I read only the initial post to this thread and laughed. I have not seen a stock 5.7 hemi run under a 14 ever! I cai and exhaust aint gonna make it come close to a camaro with a V8.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #73
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who won? lol
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:19 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
No I don't believe a stock SS is getting a 12.6 either. Maybe a 12.9. And regardless of what you say, no an R/T is not running a 13.2. I'm not saying they are dogs. They are fast, just not as fast as an SS or GT. And that is due to its weight. However, when you factor in the HP and TQ they make, you can see that they are not fast. LS1 F-Bodys were running those same times with less hp, less tq, and less displacement. I trust the times from Motortrend and Car And Driver or any other magazine because they test cars EXACTLY as it is from the factory. Forum people lie all the time about stock this or stock internal that or whatever. And for the record, where did you get anywhere even close to insecurity from my statements? Sounds like you have no idea what insecurity is because there was nothing at all even remotely resembling insecurity in what I said.
I like this post much better even though you contradicted yourself. FYI, LS1 F-bodies made more like 350 HP and were around 800 pounds lighter, simply put THAT why they were as quick as they were (HP to weight is FAR more important and straight out HP numbers). By your logic with the LS1s being basically as quick as an LS3 Camaro, that makes the LS3 Camaro look even worse than the Challenger. And no, most people claiming they are stock ARE stock, people were running these times when there weren't even tunes available for these cars. No, low 13s are NOT the norm, but they DO happen. And I regularly see bone stock cars at the track running a few 10ths quicker than what the mainsream magazines get. Be it a better launch, better weather, or lower altitude Magizines rarely, if ever, give you the times a vehicle is truly capable of. Probably good for an average, but not the BEST times and not the WORST times.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #75
BlaqWhole

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew View Post
I like this post much better even though you contradicted yourself. FYI, LS1 F-bodies made more like 350 HP and were around 800 pounds lighter, simply put THAT why they were as quick as they were (HP to weight is FAR more important and straight out HP numbers). By your logic with the LS1s being basically as quick as an LS3 Camaro, that makes the LS3 Camaro look even worse than the Challenger. And no, most people claiming they are stock ARE stock, people were running these times when there weren't even tunes available for these cars. No, low 13s are NOT the norm, but they DO happen. And I regularly see bone stock cars at the track running a few 10ths quicker than what the mainsream magazines get. Be it a better launch, better weather, or lower altitude Magizines rarely, if ever, give you the times a vehicle is truly capable of. Probably good for an average, but not the BEST times and not the WORST times.
The LS1 powered F-Body was running a mid to high 13...like a 13.5-13.6. The Dodge R/T is right there at 13.6. The LS3/L99 SS Camaro is a 13.0-13.2. And the SRT-8 is about a 12.8. Those are official times that I have seen and those are the times I was referring to. When I mentioned the LS1 in my last post...I was saying that it runs similar times to the R/T. Maybe I didn't clarify. Hopefully this all clears up what I was saying. But I didn't contradict myself. I have a habit of not saying the years or generation when I say SS.

As far as people running those times and saying they are stock...I don't trust it. Because like I said, people will flat out lie to make them or their car or their favorite car sound faster than it really is. Magazines are by far more trustworthy because they have a reputation as being truthful and unbiased. If they claimed false numbers, trust me their boards and mail columns would be full of people calling them out. Whether they give you the absolute best possible time on the absolute best possible day with the absolute best possible conditions in a factory freak or not isn't my concern. When 2 or 3 mags each consistently report within a tenth or two of each other...that is by far more reliable than some bozo claiming he ran 5-7 tenths faster.

And I agree that weight is a big issue. Which is why I said the R/T and SRT-8 were slow considering the hp and tq they have.
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