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Old 07-11-2009, 01:42 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Camaro Z28 rumors dampened by Bob Lutz, G8 will (update: NOT) survive

As reported on homepage.

In a report that just came out today from Autoblog...

Quote:
Bob Lutz is back, and after what seems like five minutes into his job as GM's new marketing kingpin, he's doing what he does best: making headlines. Rest assured that this is a good thing, as El Generalissimo Roberto Maximo told Automobile Magazine that yes, the Pontiac G8 will live on in the United States as the Chevy Caprice. So much for Fritz "I'm not a fan of rebadging" Henderson's statement to the contrary a couple of weeks ago.

"The last time we looked at [the G8], we decided that we would continue to import it as a Chevrolet. It is kind of too good to waste," Lutz told the mag. As for the G8 being "too good to waste": Amen to that, Bob. This also makes us wonder if law enforcement-grade models will be part of the deal with Holden to continue production. Chevy Caprice police cars? That's got a very familiar ring to it. The next question is whether a U.S. Caprice would mimic the Middle East-market Caprice, which is based on the long-wheelbase Holden Caprice/Statesman, or whether it will simply be a Chevy-badged version of the standard-wheelbase Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8/Chevrolet Lumina. Frankly, as long as there's ultimately a Caprice SS that is identical to the Pontiac G8 GXP in every critical way, we don't care.

In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)

On the bad news side, in a separate blog post, Automobile reports that Lutz kind of throws dirt on the idea of an LSA-powered Camaro Z28 (though he doesn't specifically state that the program's toast). He says that for "mainstream" sports models like the Camaro, powerful sixes (like the one in the Camaro LS and LT) and turbo fours (like the one used in the now-dead Cobalt SS, HHR SS and Solstice GXP) are more indicitive of the automaker's future direction in that regard. Hmmm. Well then, how about bolting a blower to the direct-injected V6?

Welcome back, Bob. This sounds like it could get pretty fun.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:46 PM   #2
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Eh - I won't hold my breathe, but I won't be ticked either. I can see where he's coming from. Also, with the new GM, I don't think they'd want to come out and advertise a 19 MPG Highway-rated muscle/pony-car anyways. I'm a little disappointed, but nothing's confirmed, either way.

At least the aftermarket it allowing any one of us to build exactly the car we want

EDIT: Eh - I just read both the Autoblog and Automobile articles and the way I interperate Lutz' comments aren't necessarily what I think either source is reporting. I don't see dirt-kicking; he makes no direct comments, but it was pretty non-specific, to me anyways.

If that car is already, indeed, ready (per the sources that say so) then why develop a new powerplant and start all over?... It's still speculation, regardless, and the quotes from Lutz are real, so I guess we just have to take it for what it's worth.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:59 PM   #3
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Value of the SS is going up...
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:30 PM   #4
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also says the g8 will come back as a caprice.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #5
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also says the g8 will come back as a caprice.
really?
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:49 PM   #6
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That is a mistake. Let it die. Save the performance segment for better GM cars like the Camaro and Corvette. If that's Lutz's idea, then he should retire...for good.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:01 PM   #7
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No, it's what he said...

BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.; Camaro Z28 reportedly dead
by Alex Nunez on Jul 11th 2009 at 12:19PM



2009 Chevy Caprice SS (Middle East) - Click above for a high-res photo gallery



Bob Lutz is back, and after what seems like five minutes into his job as GM's new marketing kingpin, he's doing what he does best: making headlines. Rest assured that this is a good thing, as El Generalissimo Roberto Maximo told Automobile Magazine that yes, the Pontiac G8 will live on in the United States as the Chevy Caprice. So much for Fritz "I'm not a fan of rebadging" Henderson's statement to the contrary a couple of weeks ago.

"The last time we looked at [the G8], we decided that we would continue to import it as a Chevrolet. It is kind of too good to waste," Lutz told the mag. As for the G8 being "too good to waste": Amen to that, Bob. This also makes us wonder if law enforcement-grade models will be part of the deal with Holden to continue production. Chevy Caprice police cars? That's got a very familiar ring to it. The next question is whether a U.S. Caprice would mimic the Middle East-market Caprice, which is based on the long-wheelbase Holden Caprice/Statesman, or whether it will simply be a Chevy-badged version of the standard-wheelbase Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8/Chevrolet Lumina. Frankly, as long as there's ultimately a Caprice SS that is identical to the Pontiac G8 GXP in every critical way, we don't care.

In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)

On the bad news side, in a separate blog post, Automobile reports that Lutz kind of throws dirt on the idea of an LSA-powered Camaro Z28 (though he doesn't specifically state that the program's toast). He says that for "mainstream" sports models like the Camaro, powerful sixes (like the one in the Camaro LS and LT) and turbo fours (like the one used in the now-dead Cobalt SS, HHR SS and Solstice GXP) are more indicitive of the automaker's future direction in that regard. Hmmm. Well then, how about bolting a blower to the direct-injected V6?

Welcome back, Bob. This sounds like it could get pretty fun.

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Old 07-11-2009, 03:12 PM   #8
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A f%$*@#ing Caprice in favor of downgrading the Camaro to four cylinders??? You've got to be joking!!!!!
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:14 PM   #9
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Dude first off,

I will never believe the Z28 will be dead. I guarantee we will see it one day

Second of all, The Caprice looks OK compared to the G8. I mean, I thought GM learned their lesson about how Badge Swapping Engineering affects their business. Since GM is now smaller, I was really hoping that each brand would bring its own diversity. I mean come on, An Enclave, Traverse, Acadia, and the Saturn version( I forgot the name) are all the same cars. I mean, thats the only thing that discourages me about the company. I really hope Fritz Henderson stops these practices.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #10
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I was hoping they would keep the G8 as an Impala SS so the Caprice would be welcomed by me. As for his statement about the mainstream cars like the Camaro getting the 6's and turbo 4, I hope this just means the mainstream buyers are looking for these. Hopefully the LS3 and LSX will be available for those that want them.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:17 PM   #11
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Frankly so far all I hear from Lutz, Henderson, GM dealers and whoever is lip service about the new GM and their focus on quality and customer satisfaction. Quality is as bad now as ever has been. Go take a lap around a GM dealer and look closely at the cars. So far I am waiting 4 + weeks for correct RS dark tint taillights ( 3 improper ones installed at factory ) as well as driver side rocker panel and associated hardware, scuff guards, etc. I also own an '06 DTS performance sedan that has spent far to much time at the dealership for warranty repairs ( car has only 15K miles on it and is driven exclusively by my wife ). If anyone at GM is listening, you are failing already. I just received my "GM customer purchase and delivery satisfaction survey" for my Camaro. It won't be pretty.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:19 PM   #12
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It's a new green GM..:( Say goodbye to V8 muscle... Get em while you can..
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:20 PM   #13
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50 Billion $$$ in the hole dude. That's why I say leave it alone. Hope GM uses their resources better going forward. They could can the Impala while they are at it. Another dog that wouldn't be missed. They have the very excellend Cadillacs and the Malibu. I see tons of those on the road her in AZ. Ummmm, sorry, NEVER see any G8's. Shiploads of V-8 Silverados and Tahoes out here too. Still never see any of those "well received" G8's that you mentioned.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #14
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You are right Supermans...with rumblings of a 4-banger Camaro and the Chevy Caprice as their planned vehicles, I'd better get my order in for a real car now!!!!
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
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You are right Supermans...with rumblings of a 4-banger Camaro and the Chevy Caprice as their planned vehicles, I'd better get my order in for a real car now!!!!
Do you know how many Mustang fans were angry when the 5.0 Liter V8 was replaced by the 4.6L V8 in 1996or 97 I believe? How many years later and they are still clamoring for the 5.0's return... This is even worse if you thnk about it... The current V8 could be replaced by a supercharged V6 which may ge about 400HP but sound like a V6 while the current V6 gets replaced by a 4banger which would sound like utter crap.. I'm just glad Ford hopefully will still be making cars with engines Americans still want to buy in ten years.. I just hope the gas-guzzler tax and CAFE standards don't make it so difficult to build V8's without penalties and increased carbon offsets (fleet MPG averege vs every car must meet ?? MPG) I know where my heart is however if Ford is the only one making an affordable V8 that isn't over $40,000, then I know where I will be going to buy my next car..
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #16
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Lutz puts damper on Camaro Z28 rumors - G8 will survive

BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.;

Camaro Z28 reportedly dead


by Alex Nunez on Jul 11th 2009 at 12:19PM





Quote:
Bob Lutz is back, and after what seems like five minutes into his job as GM's new marketing kingpin, he's doing what he does best: making headlines. Rest assured that this is a good thing, as El Generalissimo Roberto Maximo told Automobile Magazine that yes, the Pontiac G8 will live on in the United States as the Chevy Caprice. So much for Fritz "I'm not a fan of rebadging" Henderson's statement to the contrary a couple of weeks ago.

"The last time we looked at [the G8], we decided that we would continue to import it as a Chevrolet. It is kind of too good to waste," Lutz told the mag. As for the G8 being "too good to waste": Amen to that, Bob. This also makes us wonder if law enforcement-grade models will be part of the deal with Holden to continue production. Chevy Caprice police cars? That's got a very familiar ring to it. The next question is whether a U.S. Caprice would mimic the Middle East-market Caprice, which is based on the long-wheelbase Holden Caprice/Statesman, or whether it will simply be a Chevy-badged version of the standard-wheelbase Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8/Chevrolet Lumina. Frankly, as long as there's ultimately a Caprice SS that is identical to the Pontiac G8 GXP in every critical way, we don't care.

In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)

On the bad news side, in a separate blog post, Automobile reports that Lutz kind of throws dirt on the idea of an LSA-powered Camaro Z28 (though he doesn't specifically state that the program's toast). He says that for "mainstream" sports models like the Camaro, powerful sixes (like the one in the Camaro LS and LT) and turbo fours (like the one used in the now-dead Cobalt SS, HHR SS and Solstice GXP) are more indicitive of the automaker's future direction in that regard. Hmmm. Well then, how about bolting a blower to the direct-injected V6?

Welcome back, Bob. This sounds like it could get pretty fun.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/11/l...u-s-z28-likel/
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:57 PM   #17
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Are there any images/drawings of the next gen Mustang GT yet?
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #18
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its been reportedly dead for over a year now
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:06 PM   #19
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Maximum Bob can say some crazy stuff. Time will tell...
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Lutz is Nutz if he thinks a re-branded G8 will satisfy me while relegating an Icon like the Camaro to a turbo-garbage 4banger. I'll start looking at Fords!
A rebadged G8 will also sell more than a Z28.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #21
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Under their plan for the future, we'll all be driving GT 500's.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:54 PM   #22
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Holy Shiite!

What is this? A freaking Dallas episode?

Did I wake up in 1976 all over again?

You may as well go back to making the Vega Bobby!


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Old 07-11-2009, 05:56 PM   #23
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Lutz is Nutz if he thinks a re-branded G8 will satisfy me while relegating an Icon like the Camaro to a turbo-garbage 4banger. I'll start looking at Fords!
So If they change the name but everthing else is the same you won't like it? Its the same car.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:57 PM   #24
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OMFG, I'll start looking at Mustangs.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:57 PM   #25
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Lutz is a very important figure to GM. It is good to have him working hard to keep GM's products in the headlines. The Z28, obviously, is so disputed that no one has come to any conclusion. This says to me that there are some very powerful people discussing it at GM, and that those people have some very split opinions. On one side, the Z28 represents a competitor the the GT500, but that market is getting smaller with the GT500 being reduced for 2010 because so many previous models are still on lots. Additionally, the SS is so dominant over so many mainstream imports that there really isn't a solid target market for advertising a super Camaro.

The Caprice is a dangerous Chevrolet to bring back. This has to be done very carefully. If this turns out to be Chevrolet's newest car, it can't look too much like the G8, and it has to have very good efficiency numbers. If both of these situations do not exist, then critics will say that this is a phenomenal example of GM's rebadging tradition and wasteful government spending. Obviously, GM's survival has become a political issue because the US federal government owns 60% of the company. Let's not forget that GM isn't exactly considered the world's favorite example of green technology yet. Even with GM's green technology, the Caprice can make GM look bad if it doesn't come out with new or somehow improved technology.

I hope that the G8 stays alive. I'd love it to be a huge hit with lots of Caprice SS sales. I hope the V6 version is a huge hit as well. This is where the big marketing problem exists. GM has shorted Chevrolet all of these great models. Now, without anywhere fore those models to go, GM will hand Chevrolet a Caprice when the brand already has an Impala. GM will further consider a Caprice SS that is doomed to failure. Camaro SS buyers will share engines and similar performance numbers with the Caprice SS, but the Caprice will never be quite as fast due to weigh that matches the G8 GXP. In effect, all of us Camaro lovers who wishes the G8 could survive will be disappointed that it will fail as a Caprice.

In other words, the people who want the G8 to survive the most are all buying other performance cars. Coupes, like the Camaro, are more likely to sell as performance cars. The Caprice will make a great family sedan, much like the Impala.

If I were making GM's product decisions, I would consider the G8 only as an Impala alternative. As a result, the Caprice SS would share production with the Impala SS, one would have superior performance, and one would have superior handling. That would make them both desirable to different consumers. Furthermore, both would have to have different styles in order to draw consumers away from imports toward either one of these attractive GM products.

Another alternative I'd like to propose is that the G8 becomes a Buick muscle car. Buick hasn't had a great one in a long time, and I'd like to see Buick behave more like a core brand than it has in the past. I would also like to see GM compete directly with the Magnum with a Roadrunner wagon on the Zeta platform.

GM has so much potential to continue its American Revolution campaign. When this campaign started, I remember thinking how great it was that GM was revolutionizing the brand. Now, fresh out of bankruptcy, GM can have a revolution that makes it more desirable than those imports.

In conclusion, redundancy is waste. Let's see GM make another hit with a Caprice, but let's also see GM manage it with other products that keep GM brands hot.
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