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Old 09-24-2013, 11:26 AM   #1
camarosspower
 
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2010 ss bmr springs and sways vs 1le suspension

I got my lowering 1" springs and front and rear sways from BMR today. I would just like to know how would I stack up to my buddies 1le
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:47 PM   #2
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No comments guys?
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #3
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The 1LE cars will have better struts/shocks, rear end gearing, and tires than you have so it is hard to say how you would compare to one. I can tell that tires make a huge difference as far as handling goes so that would lead me to believe that you would still be a little out gunned by a 1LE.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #4
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I also have the factory reproduction wheels on 275/40 fronts and 315 rears all invos.
Thanks for the comment kyle. I just loved the way the 1le handles that's what my main question was how close would I be to it
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #5
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One mag report who tested the cars(for what thats worth) said 1LE would out do a 2010-11SS with springs and bars as BMR alluded to.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosspower View Post
I got my lowering 1" springs and front and rear sways from BMR today. I would just like to know how would I stack up to my buddies 1le
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Originally Posted by camarosspower View Post
I also have the factory reproduction wheels on 275/40 fronts and 315 rears all invos.
Thanks for the comment kyle. I just loved the way the 1le handles that's what my main question was how close would I be to it
Lowering coils will have zero impact on the understeer you experience with 315 /275s on your 5th Gen.

The 1LE runs a semi square wheel and tire package. The tires are the same size front and rear, but the rear wheels are wider. This wheel and tire combination provide a more neutral 5th gen, less understeer. The new Z/28 is running the same tire sizes Pedders USA has been running since 2009 305/30/19s. Your 315 rear 275 front is a prescription for UNDERSTEER. The more grip you add to the rear of a 5th Gen in relation to the front tire the more the car will understeer.

In addition to the wheel and tire combination you are going to war against the 1LE which has much improved rear sub-frame bushes compared to your 2010 and the Z style out board mount rear sway bar.

So how do you get close?

1. Upgrade your sub-frame bushes to Pedders EP1201HD
2. Locate a 25mm ZL1 front sway bar and endlinks to install. You'll need to drill out the strut endlink hole from the current 10m to the Z 12mm.
3. Upgrade the RLCA to the new style Z arms.
4. Order a Pedders 32mm rear Z style sway bar with droplinks.
5. Order Pedders Rear Extended Range Camber Adjustment Bolts.

The ZL1 gets reasonably neutral with 305s and 285s using a 25mm front bar and a 28mm rear bar. To get similar balance with larger rears and smaller front we create a custom sway bar package using OEM and Pedders parts. 25mm front and 32mm rear will get you close to balanced.

The 5th Gen sub-frame bushings have been a weakness through the entire model run, including the improvements made with the 1LE and ZL1 bushes. The wider the rear tires the more glaring the weakness experienced as rear end step out, rear end steer of a loose rear end. To control the 315s we go straight to the EP1201HD full replacement sub-frame bushes. That puts and end to the loose rear end.

Alignment is the next key in your quest to drive like a 1LE. Ride hieght and rear negative camber go hand in hand with the 5th Gen. We replace the OEM rear camber bolts with Justice Pete Signature Series Extended Range Camber Eccentrics. The JPSS bolts increase the range of adjustment by 1 degree over the OEM setup. This extra range allows you to get to -0.50 degrees of rear camber while lowered. Your alignment should look like this.

Front Camber -1.25
Front Toe 0.00
Rear Camber -0.50
Rear Toe IN 0.10
Rear Total Toe IN 0.20

Make these changes and you'll be closer to the 1LE driving experience than you can imagine.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #7
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Great write up justice peace. Having my alignment set up like you said, how will that affect the tire wear life
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:28 PM   #8
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Pete, you're an incredible resource to the forum. Thank You.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:56 PM   #9
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Great write up justice peace. Having my alignment set up like you said, how will that affect the tire wear life
The reduction in rear camber will increase your rear tire life while the slight increase over factory camber in front will decrease front tire life. Once we get you to 1LE like balance, all four of your tires will wear faster because you'll be ripping the tread off them with your increased cornering speeds

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Pete, you're an incredible resource to the forum. Thank You.
Thank you for the kind words.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:42 PM   #10
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How big of a difference in the drive train. If all mods where done. The only difference was the drive train how much of a advantage would the 1le have?
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:09 PM   #11
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How big of a difference in the drive train. If all mods where done. The only difference was the drive train how much of a advantage would the 1le have?
Just the differences in gear ratios, acceleration.

While the 1LE has a more aggressive gear ratio, the LSD is basically the same as an SS. The ZL1 comes with a stronger case and LSD and that is an advantage putting power down on a road course or while autocross exiting turns.

So aside from an advantage in acceleration, there is no driveline advantage in the 1LE over the SS, but the ZL1 has an advantage over both of them.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:26 PM   #12
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Great write up justice peace. Having my alignment set up like you said, how will that affect the tire wear life
Justice Pete* sorry about that
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #13
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Justice Pete* sorry about that
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:18 PM   #14
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I got the rear sway in and it feels great. I can't wait till the front goes in tomorrow.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:41 PM   #15
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I got the rear sway in and it feels great. I can't wait till the front goes in tomorrow.
Find a buyer for the shiny new front bar and use your OEM front with your BMR rear
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:53 PM   #16
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I'll probably get the springs in as well. You don't think its a good set up Pete??
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:23 PM   #17
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I'll probably get the springs in as well. You don't think its a good set up Pete??
Install the springs and rear bar. Lowering the center of gravity (CG) and changing the sway bar bias (OE front with BMR rear) are all good things. Make sure you follow this procedure to finish up the install.


Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs


Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro



If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.



Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use those lame camber eccentric bolts on a Camaro. EVER!



Anyone that tells you different, have them call me

Pedders foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are Suspension specialists committed to delivering a Pedders Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what Pedders is all about. Our solution is a set of cadmium plated eXtreme Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local Pedders Dealer can create a slot to provide Castor adjustment with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.



For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like th Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. Pedders made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.



Step one requires the technician to drill two holes in the bracket.



Step two requires CAREFUL GRINDING. We use the two holes to make the grinding process more accurate while the technician creates a slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is Pedders Perfect.



When assembled the Cadmium plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A fully Pedderised Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. We can do a road course style alignment and your Camaro will not pull. This is because the Pedders component have made the suspension more stable by reducing excess motion. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. We will adjust them on the alignment rack. Here is the installed eccentric.



Alignments are Pedders core business so we decided to make the front camber screw part of the Camaro Alignment Bolt Kit. To install the Pedders Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. LocTite Blue is ideal for this.



Pedders Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with approximately 2 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, Pedders alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a Pedders eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolt kits.

To get the aggressive alignment we prefer Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.



Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.



Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or Pedders coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allow it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the stut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

Maxed out for Negative Camber



Neutral Position i.e. The same position as the OEM Mount.



FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 / Pedderised Hardcore Track Alignment with Appropriate Tires

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -3.5 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and NO Strut Tower Bar.
Camber : -4.00 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and a Strut Tower Bar
Toe: OUT 0.50
Total Toe OUT 1.00

Rear
Camber -0.80
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit and Dual Bearing Cambers Plates are Required.

Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment




Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values




NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:27 PM   #18
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You re such s big help pete
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