|Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.|
|10-08-2013, 12:15 AM||#1|
Drives: 2013 1LS-6sp-VictoryRed
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: North Carolina
Which 1LE/ZL1 takeoffs for 2013-v6-6sp
I've been trying to absorb a lot of information on 5th gen suspensions.
For 3rd and 4th gens we could get good improvements from IROC or SS sway bars or 1LE LCA high durometer bushings.
My 2013 V6 has MN6 and GW6 and G80 and FE2 stock 18" wheels tires.
Could a pro or knowledgable 5th genner tell me the orde to upgrade my suspension for the first $600 spent. I'd love to leverage 1LE/ZL1/SS takeoffs
The pro's will ask my driving style. I like to corner HARD, always have. I have had C4 vettes and hated the way they transitioned from turning hard to full sideways slides without a warning. I like great balance. I find pushing a front end round a curve convenient, and don't want to get too tail happy given the car is a daily driver and we have lots of rain. I like very little body flex/twist. Handling on rails will keep me happy and safe. In the past, I have preferred a Herb Adams comfortable springs - big sway bar setup over a heavy springs setup.
Kid stuff of lurid burnouts and doughnuts is mostly removed from system in the last 40 years of driving BUT I am a dyed to the core stick shift driver and appreciate a setup thats tight enough that a well done quick shift to 2nd or 3rd is rewarded with a quick squat and squirk of the tires.
Things I think I have read...
High performance v8 LCA's are far better than the V6 ones and should help.
A 28mm rear take off sway and a 25 or 27mm front MAY be a good balance.
I am confused about whether my 2013 V6 has the more outbound rear sway bar mounts or could leverage those with a bracket.
How difficult is it to replace the subframe connector bushings (I think thats what they are called) Peders sells these and recommends them as step 1, and why is this a better first step than a BMR subframe connector.
Last question- WHEW! Is anyone making 5th gen chassis parts out of aluminum so we could for example drop weight and add strength at the same time over typical factory stamped steel pieces??
|10-08-2013, 11:56 AM||#2|
Drives: Pedders USA Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
High performance v8 LCA's are far better than the V6 ones and should help. They are the same part numbers so there is no difference.
A 28mm rear take off sway and a 25 or 27mm front MAY be a good balance. 25mm front and 28mm rear is a must for those that run larger rear than front tores. With a square wheel and tire setup the 25mm / 28mm is still the better choice. It is more neutral.
I am confused about whether my 2013 V6 has the more outbound rear sway bar mounts or could leverage those with a bracket. All Rear Lower Control Arms for the 5th Gen are the same starting in 2012 and have both the inboard and outboard sway bar mounts. This is a smart move by GM as one arm fits the entire production run.
How difficult is it to replace the subframe connector bushings (I think thats what they are called) Pedders sells these and recommends them as step 1, and why is this a better first step than a BMR subframe connector. The movement in the IRS sub-frame comes from the movement allowed by the OEM sub-frame bushings. You mentioned the use of light weight arms to reduce weight, so why we we add any weight from braces when the movement is in the bushings? There is more detail below.
Is your 5th Gen structurally sound? Take a close look at these crash test videos.
Watch the engine move while the front sub-frame remains almost stationary at 14 Seconds
The front sub-frame mounts with six bolts and two locating pins. There are no rubber bushes. The front sub-frame connects well forward and well behind the front ‘axle’ for strength and stability. As you could see in the frontal impact video the engine was moving backwards from the impact (at roughly 14 seconds), but the front sub-frame remained well located. When GM designed the Camaro they built it well, very well. It was engineered to have an exceptionally strong monocoque. A solid monocoque translates into a higher perception of quality while enhancing performance and function. In the following series of pictures you can see how the 5th Gen Camaro has numerous 'chassis braces' built in at the factory using state-of the art design in the form of shape, construction and materials --
High-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steel is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel. HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they aren't made to meet a specific chemical composition, but rather to specific mechanical properties. They have a carbon content between 0.05–0.25% to retain formability and weldability. Other alloying elements include up to 2.0% manganese and small quantities of copper, nickel, niobium, nitrogen, vanadium, chromium, molybdenum, titanium, calcium, rare earth elements, or zirconium. Copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium are added for strengthening purposes. These elements are intended to alter the microstructure of carbon steels, which is usually a ferrite-pearlite aggregate, to produce a very fine dispersion of alloy carbides in an almost pure ferrite matrix. This eliminates the toughness-reducing effect of a pearlitic volume fraction, yet maintains and increases the material's strength by refining the grain size, which in the case of ferrite increases yield strength by 50% for every halving of the mean grain diameter. Precipitation strengthening plays a minor role, too. Their yield strengths can be anywhere between 250–590 megapascals (36,000–86,000 psi). Due to their higher strength and toughness HSLA steels usually require 25 to 30% more power to form, as compared to carbon steels
Martensitic Ultra High Strength Steel Maraging steels (a portmanteau of martensitic and aging) are iron alloys which are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing malleability, although they cannot hold a good cutting edge. 'Aging' refers to the extended heat-treatment process. These steels are a special class of low-carbon ultra-high-strength steels which derive their strength not from carbon, but from precipitation of inter-metallic compounds. The principal alloying element is 15 to 25% nickel. Secondary alloying elements are added to produce intermetallic precipitates, which include cobalt, molybdenum, and titanium.
Photos originally posted 11.11.2008 by aston70
Do you need a strut tower bar? Many assume they do. The brace was and is necessary when the roof is cut off. That is why TEAM Camaro designed and install the brace installing the Vert. The brace installed on the ZL1 indirectly for NVH. The STB cleaned up some 'noise' on the sensors used to fine tune the MRC. The STB looks cool so it is part of the 1LE package.
It would deny the obvious to say the OE STB does nothing. It does add structure to an already robust monocoque. The is zero data available that documents any gain in handling or lap times. None.
Simons has discovered slipping suspension-member attachments and steering linkages sending false signals to the driver. Once, a race car’s control arm collapsed when subjected to normal cornering loads. His K&C machine has helped teams determine why one race car responds quickly to setup adjustments even as its identically constructed stablemate is a cranky handful. Simons adds that he’s never seen an aftermarket strut-tower brace provide a measurable handling benefit.
All bushings are not created equal.
User / Owner Video
Putnam Park Danny Popp driving the Pedderised L/28.
Please, eel free to ask as many follow up questions as you have.