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Old 10-29-2012, 12:35 PM   #1
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whipple 4.0 build, HOOD DILEMA

Hey guys, first post on the forum.

I purchased a brand new 2013 ZL1, black with black wheels and nav. The first thing I did was I took the engine and blower off and sold them for a cheap price, dont ask how much

Anyways, I have an RHS 427 in the works, with custom diamond pistons, oliver rods, dragonslayer crank, mast 305 heads, and a big ass whipple 4.0 on board.

Yes Whipple dont sell the 4.0 for the Camaro yet, but were gonna customize it to work, and this might as well be the first 4.0 whippled camaro in the world other than the drag-only COPO's

guidelines for this build are to have a stock-like camshaft, and be quite at idle and partial throttle and run on pure 93 octane pump gas no meth no race gas no bullshit.

Now, I really hate the looks of the damn production COPO camaros, I did like the concept/preproduction version much more, but not sure if all of this clear the blower/snout and so on. I think the ZL1 will look hideous with a COPO hood, and as much as I love the ZL1 hood I guess it will have to go.

Part of the reason were using a 4.0 is for the wow factor, im just mentioning this before someone asks why I didnt use a 2.9 because well have to spin the life out of the poor 2.9 and throw it outside its efficiency range. Why no KenneBell? Because KB blowers are crap (sorry KB we could discuss this if you want)

Suggestions on hoods? I looked at every hood on the planet, and im lost.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
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Also for those interested in following the progress of the build, you can like "New Era Performance" page on facebook, and I might start a build thread here to keep you guys entertained lol.

Here is a picture of the car:

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Old 10-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #3
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Decide on a hood that fits or get a custom one made. Doesn't seem much of a dilemma to me.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:41 PM   #4
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Decide on a hood that fits or get a custom one made. Doesn't seem much of a dilemma to me.
who makes custom hoods? The only hood we KNOW will work is the production COPO hood, the rest we have to try out. Also, not sure what happens with a fiberglass hood with our heat here in Dubai, seems it will "warp" real quick.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:56 PM   #5
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yeah heat and CF dont go well together...... you don't have a lot of options it seems.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:15 PM   #6
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Your going to have to worry more about the rear fire wall then the hood! The Whipple COPO's dont have any wipers and the fire wall has been modded BIG TIME!
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #7
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Your going to have to worry more about the rear fire wall then the hood! The Whipple COPO's dont have any wipers and the fire wall has been modded BIG TIME!
I understand it needs to be modified, we might fabricate a custom snout to clear the firewall but MIGHT get rid of the wipers, it rained for two hours last year, and it didnt rain at all the year before, who needs wipers

Now back to the original question, who does custom hoods and who (vendors) thinks his hood will clear the 4.0 whipple?

This is how a copo engine bay looks like:

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:08 PM   #8
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The COPO hood is the only one that clears that I know of, and you won't be using wipers.

Another problem may be sealing off the back of the hood. Not a problem on a race car like the COPO. But on a street car with an HVAC system, having no seal back there is going to put engine heat and odors right into the HVAC system.

I ran a Camaro once just for a few miles with that rear hood seal removed, tons of heat came out of the vents. And that was a non supercharged car. A 427 with a 4.0L blower is going to be putting out a ton of heat. If the back of the hood/HVAC inlet isn't sealed off from the engine compartment, forget about the A/C working properly.

I'd rethink the 4.0L idea. Many reasons nobody else is using it but the COPO cars.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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Slap an F1 procharger on there, you know it'll fit without issue then.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:10 PM   #10
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Contact Eric at MPD1. I have their cowl hood and it adds alot of room in the center where the Whipple would sit. I had a custom elbow built and it would not fit under a stock hood but fits easily under the MPD1 hood. They will also cut holes into the cowl to help get the heat out.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
The COPO hood is the only one that clears that I know of, and you won't be using wipers.

Another problem may be sealing off the back of the hood. Not a problem on a race car like the COPO. But on a street car with an HVAC system, having no seal back there is going to put engine heat and odors right into the HVAC system.

I ran a Camaro once just for a few miles with that rear hood seal removed, tons of heat came out of the vents. And that was a non supercharged car. A 427 with a 4.0L blower is going to be putting out a ton of heat. If the back of the hood/HVAC inlet isn't sealed off from the engine compartment, forget about the A/C working properly.

I'd rethink the 4.0L idea. Many reasons nobody else is using it but the COPO cars.
The reason no one has it is because Whipple did not officially release it for use on Camaro's its really that simple, and for the majority a 2.9 is plenty.

We will make it work, dont worry lol
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:18 PM   #12
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Slap an F1 procharger on there, you know it'll fit without issue then.
fit a procharger and suck hot air from under the engine compartment?
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2K11SS View Post
Contact Eric at MPD1. I have their cowl hood and it adds alot of room in the center where the Whipple would sit. I had a custom elbow built and it would not fit under a stock hood but fits easily under the MPD1 hood. They will also cut holes into the cowl to help get the heat out.
I love that hood
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:42 PM   #14
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fit a procharger and suck hot air from under the engine compartment?
The fastest camaro to date runs one, so not really a face palm.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2K11SS View Post
Contact Eric at MPD1. I have their cowl hood and it adds alot of room in the center where the Whipple would sit. I had a custom elbow built and it would not fit under a stock hood but fits easily under the MPD1 hood. They will also cut holes into the cowl to help get the heat out.
In a street car, I wouldn't be cutting holes in the back of a hood. That area has to be sealed from the engine compartment heat, or forget about using the HVAC system.

Try riding in a stock Camaro with the rear hood seal removed. The heat blast and engine fumes from the HVAC vents will quickly change any thoughts on modifying the cowl. A bigger more powerfull supercharged engine with more heat would magnify the problem. It will be like riding in an oven.

Works for the COPO, because of no HVAC or wipers. The procharger idea will look pretty good soon.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
In a street car, I wouldn't be cutting holes in the back of a hood. That area has to be sealed from the engine compartment heat, or forget about using the HVAC system.

Try riding in a stock Camaro with the rear hood seal removed. The heat blast and engine fumes from the HVAC vents will quickly change any thoughts on modifying the cowl. A bigger more powerfull supercharged engine with more heat would magnify the problem. It will be like riding in an oven.

Works for the COPO, because of no HVAC or wipers. The procharger idea will look pretty good soon.

There is a guy around here that was running a 4.0 Kenne Bell. Considering that they are close to the same size look and see what his issues were... I will try to find the thread.

Edit Sorry he was running a LSX 454 3.6 L Kenne Bell Supercharger. He had no issues.

http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread...hlight=lsx+454
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:59 PM   #17
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The fastest camaro to date runs one, so not really a face palm.
does the fastest camaro to date run pump gas? you know that running race gas and or meth makes a huge difference to how much power you can make and how hot/cold the IAT's get. sucking air right above the exhaust manifolds sounds like a very wise idea
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:02 PM   #18
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There is a guy around here that was running a 4.0 Kenne Bell. Considering that they are close to the same size look and see what his issues were... I will try to find the thread.

Edit Sorry he was running a LSX 454 3.6 L Kenne Bell Supercharger. He had no issues.

http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread...hlight=lsx+454
I thought of KB, since that fits under the hood, but KB has a VERY bad track record as far as inlet temps go, they are extremely unefficient, and if you look through camaro5 you will find data from some of the well known vendors. Even with their LC (liquid cooled) blowers, unfortunately.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
In a street car, I wouldn't be cutting holes in the back of a hood. That area has to be sealed from the engine compartment heat, or forget about using the HVAC system.

Try riding in a stock Camaro with the rear hood seal removed. The heat blast and engine fumes from the HVAC vents will quickly change any thoughts on modifying the cowl. A bigger more powerfull supercharged engine with more heat would magnify the problem. It will be like riding in an oven.

Works for the COPO, because of no HVAC or wipers. The procharger idea will look pretty good soon.
so what are all the street camaros with cowl hoods doing? The cowl hoods should release quite some heat at the back as well. Also, even if we are forced to cut the rubber seal right where the blower comes close to the firewall, we could it intact elsewhere, it doesnt have to come off completely.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:09 PM   #20
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Run an alternate fuel cell for the race gas, and pump gas tune for regular driving. It will be a lot simpler if you do something like that. The hot air that a procharger pulls in still results in lower IATs than a maxed roots type.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:49 PM   #21
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I will be glad to help you with the inlet,i have a few ideas and you will need it to let the 4.0 breath.If i had the car here i could do a sick hood.Let me think about the hood
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:59 PM   #22
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fit a procharger and suck hot air from under the engine compartment?
That is an uneducated comment. No offense. But really. A centri through a front mount will have cooler IAT's than that whipple 4.0.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:18 PM   #23
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Don't look at the intake location as a Downfall for the procharger. Iats Are only 10-15 degrees above Ambient. Roots type blower can do that, but not under boost or even spinning the hell out of it like you will be.

I'd be putting an f1 or f2 procharger or vortech ysi before I'd go whipple.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:50 PM   #24
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so what are all the street camaros with cowl hoods doing? The cowl hoods should release quite some heat at the back as well. Also, even if we are forced to cut the rubber seal right where the blower comes close to the firewall, we could it intact elsewhere, it doesnt have to come off completely.
Don't know why anyone would release heat at the back of the hood. That is where the HVAC inlet is. How hot would you like the interior of the car to get?

The old cowl inductions for street cars like a '70 Chevelle were to let air in the engine intake, but they still sealed off the back of the hood. Race cars open up the back of the cowl, but they have no HVAC inlet.

There is a reason the ZL1 has the hood opening up front, and the back is sealed.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
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That is an uneducated comment. No offense. But really. A centri through a front mount will have cooler IAT's than that whipple 4.0.
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