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Old 10-09-2013, 09:14 PM   #26
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Speed Density tends to work better on setups like this if you ask me, the more complicated things get, the less you want to use the MAF Sensor. Not to mention SD will usually make more power, drive better under partial throttle (why I think you should use it), and the MAF sensor is just a restriction point anyways.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:16 PM   #27
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I'll be handling some remote tuning on this to try to get it in line. Camper is an awesome guy and I just want his car to run correct.

Look at the narrowbands just drop out, so its going real on the lean side based upon the narrowbands and wideband reporting that Camper has told me. Any situation like that will induce knock of course.

This car can be tuned fine on GMVE/MAF, MAF only or VE/SD only... Just pick one. However this tune was setup by turning off the LTrims and putting it in MAF mode only is definitely not my choice with a blower setup without having multiple bypass valves at this level. You just won't dump the air fast enough to have a steady MAF curve.

Making adjustments on the GMVE in non-custom OS in HPTuners is actually very easy. Use Bluecat's EQ>VE program. The SD tunes take less time because you are only tuning a base VE table, not going back and forth between turning off the MAP, dialing in the GMVE and turning back on MAF...
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #28
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nevermind found it

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #29
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I'll be handling some remote tuning on this to try to get it in line. Camper is an awesome guy and I just want his car to run correct.

Look at the narrowbands just drop out, so its going real on the lean side based upon the narrowbands and wideband reporting that Camper has told me. Any situation like that will induce knock of course.

This car can be tuned fine on GMVE/MAF, MAF only or VE/SD only... Just pick one. However as this tuner did, turning off the LTrims and putting it in MAF mode only is definitely not my choice with a blower setup without having multiple bypass valves at this level. You just won't dump the air fast enough to have a steady MAF curve.

Making adjustments on the GMVE in non-custom OS in HPTuners is actually very easy. Use Bluecat's EQ>VE program. The SD tunes take less time because you are only tuning a base VE table, not going back and forth between turning off the MAP, dialing in the GMVE and turning back on MAF...

thats why Im sending my wife to your place
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:59 PM   #30
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Canuk, he has a wideband just not hooked into hptuners.

Camper, if it isn't fixed by Sunday bring it over or I'm coming to you.

I found a picture of Unreal...

He's a real ...
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:14 PM   #31
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Tuna? I love tuna.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:19 PM   #32
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Tuna? I love tuna.

Yes you Toona....
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:29 AM   #33
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Dude, my blower sounds like a jet airplane. I can't hear my motor let alone something that sounds off..

That's why any sensible tuner/technician would use a stethoscope. Dont these guys ever have to diagnose problems ?

That's just basic stuff, not rocket science. You can hear the engine in very great detail, and you'll hear detonation or anything remotely like it far better than any knock sensor ( assuming your hearing is good )
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:13 AM   #34
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That's why any sensible tuner/technician would use a stethoscope. Dont these guys ever have to diagnose problems ?

That's just basic stuff, not rocket science. You can hear the engine in very great detail, and you'll hear detonation or anything remotely like it far better than any knock sensor ( assuming your hearing is good )
\

Actually any sensible tuner would use a knock box on the dyno. With the blowers and exhausts most of these cars have, you wont hear much without it.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:27 AM   #35
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\

Actually any sensible tuner would use a knock box on the dyno. With the blowers and exhausts most of these cars have, you wont hear much without it.

Yes any diagnostic equipment you can use is a huge plus. However, after doing this for so many years you also get a keen ear to anything going on, surprised I still have it but my hearing is awesome 12 years later...
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:39 AM   #36
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\

Actually any sensible tuner would use a knock box on the dyno. With the blowers and exhausts most of these cars have, you wont hear much without it.
And it is those very people who struggle to diagnose problems, because they think technology will do it for them. It would be foolish to rely on a knock sensor, when you already know it is detecting false knock.


Get someone with actual experience solving problems
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:43 AM   #37
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nevermind found it
You found the Problem?
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #38
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Put the car in power enrichment earlier, I'd bet the problem goes away. I see this from time to time on some na setups with headwork and fast manifolds. Depends on the engine setup really, but at 108 kpa like in the pic you showed, id have it dipping into pe mode.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:27 AM   #39
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You found the Problem?

It appears it was all in the tune as Matt rewrote my tune and we datalogged and made adjustments for over 2 hours last night. We have a slight concern my valves are hanging open due to incorrect pushrod length but we will continue datalogging today and I'll measure pushrods just to be safe.

pushrods are currently a 7.65, I was concerned that was a little long for the application.

239/251; .624/.624 LSL cam and PRC 260cc heads, not milled
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #40
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It appears it was all in the tune as Matt rewrote my tune and we datalogged and made adjustments for over 2 hours last night. We have a slight concern my valves are hanging open due to incorrect pushrod length but we will continue datalogging today and I'll measure pushrods just to be safe.

pushrods are currently a 7.65, I was concerned that was a little long for the application.

239/251; .624/.624 LSL cam and PRC 260cc heads, not milled
Possible 7.400 is more typical

That is a 1/4 inch difference.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #41
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Holy preload!
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #42
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Possible 7.400 is more typical

That is a 1/4 inch difference.
in all my research the PRC 250/255/260 required somewhere in the 7.5-7.6 range. Its an aftermarket casting with the modified angle, deeper pockets and such.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:57 AM   #43
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Possible 7.400 is more typical

That is a 1/4 inch difference.
I believe it had 7.4 in it before and the valve were not opening all the way because they were .200+ too short. With the big cam it sounded like a stock cam so the shop redid the pushrods and put in longer ones.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:18 PM   #44
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I believe it had 7.4 in it before and the valve were not opening all the way because they were .200+ too short. With the big cam it sounded like a stock cam so the shop redid the pushrods and put in longer ones.
If the pushrods were too short there should have been valve lash and a lot of valvetrain noise

If there was no lash and no noise it should not affect how far the valves open.

Ted.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:47 PM   #45
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With my PRC 260 heads, I used a set of 7.5 for the first cam and a set of 7.55 for the second cam.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:36 PM   #46
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So nobody bothers to count turns of the bolt to verify preload is in the correct range? It doesn't even take any more time. The second time too? Jeez.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #47
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So nobody bothers to count turns of the bolt to verify preload is in the correct range? It doesn't even take any more time. The second time too? Jeez.

LOL... Throw the dice you may get it right once

We verify everything in house here with a snap-on dial indicator gauge. At least the turn/feel method would be fine. We just did a set of PRC's that took 7.600"s.

Ted: The deck height and valve angles are changed so it takes the longer pushrod.

Who remembers the 11* ETP head days of the SBF pushrods 8.100" range
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:46 PM   #48
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Yep PRC, take longer pushrods
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:21 AM   #49
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So nobody bothers to count turns of the bolt to verify preload is in the correct range? It doesn't even take any more time. The second time too? Jeez.
I guess its the same the way some people think plugging in some electronics is the solution to all problems.

If the basics aren't right, it'll never be right. It takes competence and experience before everything to make it all work.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:57 AM   #50
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LOL... Throw the dice you may get it right once

We verify everything in house here with a snap-on dial indicator gauge. At least the turn/feel method would be fine. We just did a set of PRC's that took 7.600"s.

Ted: The deck height and valve angles are changed so it takes the longer pushrod.

Who remembers the 11* ETP head days of the SBF pushrods 8.100" range
I am all to familiar with proper measuring of pushrods, Every aftermarket head, cam, rocker, valve combination can take a different length.

7.650 just sounded long.

I think we only have about .080 to play with in the lifter if my memory serves me, Tony does all the assembly these days.

Ted.
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