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Old 10-07-2013, 11:11 PM   #1
Rabamaro
 
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Unhappy My experience at Lethal Racing

Up until about 2 1/2-3 months ago, I had nothing but great things to say about Lethal Racing. I've praised their customer service and quality of their work. It'd be easier for me to post the link of the other thread I posted in rather than go over the whole story again.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320916

Even when I started the above thread, I wanted to protect their identity hoping this would be resolved before coming to this. I've tried for over a month to get this resolved privately, however Lethal has refused to take responsibility for what clearly happened as a direct result of some mishap/error during removal or install of my transmission. Shawn told me that he would've never let my car leave the shop in the condition it was in when I sent him the photos and video of my bent input shaft. However, I believe that he honestly didn't know about it at the time my car was picked up. The vibration in the car wouldn't even be felt under 4000rpm, and he told me after the clutch install that they didn't push the car very hard. I filed an official complaint under the Consumer Protection Act last week with the Louisiana attorney general. We'll see if it gets us anywhere. I'm still stunned that it ever came to this. All I ever asked was that they stand by their 1 yr/12000 mile workmanship warranty, yet I'm the one blamed for the bent shaft after everyone has told me that it's impossible for it to have happened while in the car.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:40 PM   #2
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Hope it all gets worked out for you
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:14 AM   #3
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Damn. I saw your other thread. Hope you get this worked out bud.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bhillakaiceberg View Post
Damn. I saw your other thread. Hope you get this worked out bud.
Thanks man. I've known the co-owner over there for a couple years and considered him a friend. I know he didnt do the install himself. I know that if he would've legitimately known that something happened, he would've addressed it. I'm almost certain that whomever did the install is just trying to cover his ass or honestly believes that whatever happened at install wasn't bad enough to have caused the bent input shaft. I'm at a loss here.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabamaro View Post
Up until about 2 1/2-3 months ago, I had nothing but great things to say about Lethal Racing. I've praised their customer service and quality of their work. It'd be easier for me to post the link of the other thread I posted in rather than go over the whole story again.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320916

Even when I started the above thread, I wanted to protect their identity hoping this would be resolved before coming to this. I've tried for over a month to get this resolved privately, however Lethal has refused to take responsibility for what clearly happened as a direct result of some mishap/error during removal or install of my transmission. Shawn told me that he would've never let my car leave the shop in the condition it was in when I sent him the photos and video of my bent input shaft. However, I believe that he honestly didn't know about it at the time my car was picked up. The vibration in the car wouldn't even be felt under 4000rpm, and he told me after the clutch install that they didn't push the car very hard. I filed an official complaint under the Consumer Protection Act last week with the Louisiana attorney general. We'll see if it gets us anywhere. I'm still stunned that it ever came to this. All I ever asked was that they stand by their 1 yr/12000 mile workmanship warranty, yet I'm the one blamed for the bent shaft after everyone has told me that it's impossible for it to have happened while in the car.
Rabamro,

First off we are sorry this issue has come to this, but there are some major facts that you have not produced for everyone one to see.

There are major defaults that are being left out. The first is the issues that you yourself have brought up here previously here on camaro5. This begins when you state that you originally had and issue with a vibration that took place after dropping the clutch several times. You also state prior to Lethal Racing doing any work on your car that you have broke an axle, and driveshaft bolt(s) on your car while drag racing the car in which at the same time found evidence of transmission damage. Could a shock hard enough to damage an axle not also damage a transmission? Yes it can...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...57&postcount=1

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...04#post5795504

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...11&postcount=1

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...20#post6826520


You have also had your dealership (again previous to Lethal Racing's work) REMOVE your transmission out of your car in search of a vibration. Is it not possible They may have dropped it? They were apparently able to re install the trans also with no issues yet the vibrations remained.....how can they re install it and not be accused of dropping it but we are accused?
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...36#post5787836


Next, you purchased a used clutch that was removed from a car with know issues. You were advised not only by Lethal Racing, but by other vendors as well that is was not a wise choice to install this into your car. You were notified that Lethal Racing gives no warranty for installation of any and all used parts.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...73&postcount=5

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...73&postcount=6

Upon removal of your trans to install the clutch you supplied you were notified and were sent pic of your throw out bearing and slave cyl. The throw out bearing was completely destroyed and this is where the sliver of metal your dealership found and notified you about during the replacement of your broken axle. It had been damaged after the first instance and occurrence of a vibration. The pilot bearing was replaced due to it feeling gritty and as a precaution. I told you accidentally that it was the input bearing when I was asked later. That was my fault and it was a mistake but I was referring to the pilot bearing.
The clutch that was removed was difficult to assess due to the throw out bearing's balls having been sent ricocheting through out the bell housing over time.

The transmission was re installed and the clutch was centered before install by using a metal splined shaft that insures correct alignment. IN NO WAY WAS THE TRANSMISSION EVER DROPPED, HIT OR BEAT ON. At all times it stays secured to a jack by a chain and retaining bolt.

As you stated, myself , mike or shawn would NEVER allow a damaged part to leave the shop without letting the owner know prior to re install. It frankly is NOT worth the trouble, money, or reputation to allow any type of action to be hidden for future dealings.

We are sorry for this unfortunate turn of events since you have always supported Lethal. However in our policy it states that any and all warranty work MUST be done at Lethal Racing and again we offer no warranty on used parts of any kind that are installed ...for this very situation.

We also cannot be liable to pay for work that another shop does prior to our investigations of failures. If we were given the opportunity to inspect it first you know in your heart we would have worked with you and made it right. That goes for anyone we have done work for...
We were not given that opportunity to due so and we are sorry it would have been an inconvenience for you but we can not control that aspect of the situation. We simply cannot not go by the word of another shop when it comes to these situations. It MAY have been an exemption it we were notified of your plans a head of time and not after the fact.


We hope everyone carefully reads this response and understands the full scope of these threads and replys.

regard,
Nick, LETHAL RACING shop manager

Ps- here is the pic you were sent at the time of removal of your clutch
Attached Images
 

Last edited by BLACK10; 10-09-2013 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:40 AM   #6
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Sorry for the issues.

That's a very detailed response from Lethal and makes sense to me.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by yotaman96 View Post
Sorry for the issues.

That's a very detailed response from Lethal and makes sense to me.
X2
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by yotaman96 View Post
Sorry for the issues.

That's a very detailed response from Lethal and makes sense to me.




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Old 10-09-2013, 06:31 AM   #9
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This is a very stand up shop that has a great rep, and from their reply above I would say good luck with whatever you're trying to get Accomplished on here and with the AG in your state. Sounds like you beat the crap out of your car and then was to cheap to pay the piper when it broke. Then only advice I could give lethal is to not perform work that you don't believe in(ie, installing used clutches)

I turn down work all the time that I know isn't a good idea.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:41 AM   #10
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I have been reading numerous threads from different performance modification providers like Lethal and Jannetty and Livernois, MTI, etc for a long time and I would still have no reservations about taking my Camaro to any of them when I am ready. They have too good a track record to discount them over one negative experience even if it turns out to be valid, which it doesn't appear IMHO. Seems like your issue was present before Lethal received it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotaman96 View Post
Sorry for the issues.

That's a very detailed response from Lethal and makes sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Criag B View Post
X2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Dad View Post
x3
X4

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaCompiler View Post
I have been reading numerous threads from different performance modification providers like Lethal and Jannetty and Livernois, MTI, etc for a long time and I would still have no reservations about taking my Camaro to any of them when I am ready. They have too good a track record to discount them over one negative experience even if it turns out to be valid, which it doesn't appear IMHO. Seems like your issue was present before Lethal received it.
There's always another side of the story. Good on Lethal for providing all the info.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:50 AM   #12
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:14 AM   #13
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The vibration I'd had previously was from a friggin motor mount! What transmission damage are you referring to? My dealer had my transmission out 3 YEARS ago. Your shop is the only other shop to have it out. Your throwing totally irelevant threads out there. There was/is no damage to the transmission other than the input shaft. Anyone who knows anything about these cars knows the passenger half shaft is a notorious weak point. My best friend broke his pulling out of a Shell station a year ago. Also, I don't beat on my car. I've taken my car down the track a total of 5-6 times total in 4 years.

Again, I offered to bring you the transmission, I still have everything that came out of it, but you have refused to even look at it. For the 4th time, I could not get my car to you. I didn't feel it was safe to drive 90 minutes to you. This happened at your shop. A bad throwout bearing or used clutch did not cause this. How do you explain how 6 shops have told me that this CANNOT occur with the trans inside the car? There was also a thread about you warrantying work done in Texas. So I don't want to hear about not covering another shop.

You yourself told me that the clutch disks looked fine. If you or Shawn would've recommended that I not use it...I wouldn't have. You even told me you changed the INPUT SHAFT bearing when i asked about it 2 days after picking the car up. My car is a garage queen, hence why I didn't push it until later in July. What I can or cannot afford is honestly none of your business. I'm having paint work done now. I have the income. I'm just trying to get what's right. Your boss's last email to me took a quote directly from Ted Jannetty saying that the trans had to have been dropped, and pointed it towards the shop I brought it to. Again, nothing else was found wrong. The car was revved with the clutch still bolted on and no vibration. I even told Shawn that I wouldn't expect him to cover the cost of a used clutch and that I would just eat that cost.

Bottom line is that I brought the car to your shop, had a clutch that you said was good to go and new slave installed and my whole car began to vibrate when revved over 4k. It had never done that before. I know you personally did not do the install, but I was told that you drove the car around bit afterwards and didn't push it. I'm not saying that you should've run my car ragged, but I can guarantee you that you would've felt it if you got the rpms up some. I used to love driving out to y'all's shop and hang out with your team and check out some of the builds. If I felt it was safe to get the car out to y'all, I would have. We all thought my pilot was about to go, and I couldn't risk the long drive.
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Last edited by Rabamaro; 10-09-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:20 AM   #14
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Wow I clicked on this forum by accident this morning AND cannot believe it. How can you beat the snot outta your car (not that there's anything wrong with it) and expect OTHERS to be responsible for YOUR actions. I don't get some guys, looking at that slave and the way it looks so damn torn up is just horrible. Then you go to the dealer AND a shop AND get used junk. I don't get it, in this hobby (and a subculture at that) we must take care of ourselves. This hobby is frickin $$$$ and ONLY we know how this addiction is SO we rely on the manufacturers to build quality products to be installed by a quality shop and both rely on OUR word of mouth and its a cycle. BUT we must take responsibility of our actions and not point fingers. Even then NOTHING is bullet proof we just hope for the best and expect the worst.
Spohn fugged me with a DS and a Trans, many came forward and spread their feelings on Ls1tech about 1.5 years ago, I cut my losses and moved on.

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #15
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We spoken to a few of the same transmission shops as you and have received an overall reply, how can anyone make an educated analysis with tearing down the trans themselves.

Again, please see the following paragraph again.

"We also cannot be liable to pay for work that another shop does prior to our investigations of failures. If we were given the opportunity to inspect it first you know in your heart we would have worked with you and made it right. That goes for anyone we have done work for...We were not given that opportunity to due so and we are sorry it would have been an inconvenience for you but we can not control that aspect of the situation. We simply cannot not go by the word of another shop when it comes to these situations. It MAY have been an exemption it we were notified of your plans a head of time and not after the fact.
"
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mlee View Post
X4



There's always another side of the story. Good on Lethal for providing all the info.
X5
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:42 AM   #17
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The vibration I'd had previously was from a friggin motor mount! What transmission damage are you referring to? My dealer had my transmission out 3 YEARS ago. Your shop is the only other shop to have it out. Your throwing totally irelevant threads out there. There was/is no damage to the transmission other than the input shaft.

Again, I offered to bring you the transmission, I still have everything that came out of it, but you have refused to even look at it. For the 4th time, I could not get my car to you. I didn't feel it was safe to drive 90 minutes to you. This happened at your shop. A bad throwout bearing or used clutch did not cause this. How do you explain how 6 shops have told me that this CANNOT occur with the trans inside the car? There was also a thread about you warrantying work done in Texas. So I don't want to hear about not covering another shop.

You yourself told me that the clutch disks looked fine. If you or Shawn would've recommended that I not use it...I wouldn't have. You even told me you changed the INPUT SHAFT bearing when i asked about it 2 days after picking the car up. My car is a garage queen, hence why I didn't push it until later in July. What I can or cannot afford is honestly none of your business. I'm having paint work done now. I have the income. I'm just trying to get what's right.
We did let you know that the used clutch had hot spots already on it. Please also see the reply from a fellow vendor also stating that this used clutch might lead to future issues.

It has been shown that you have had constant vibrations and broken parts issues for the last three years .We have stated what we know and see no need to keep discussing this issue.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #18
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Why did you not find out the input shaft was bent when you did the used clutch install then Lethal? Especially with all the damage you discovered it would be something you should have checked.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:10 AM   #19
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Why did you not find out the input shaft was bent when you did the used clutch install then Lethal? Especially with all the damage you discovered it would be something you should have checked.
It was checked. No visible damage was found just as the dealership did not find any damage. Please see the above comment where rabamaro states he noticed the vib after leaving the track. The used clutch also was involved in a failure in the previous car.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
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So he took it to the shop you replaced the clutch and then he noticed vibration issues over 4k the next day when he got to drive it is that right? OR was it after the track outing? looking at the pictures this was clearly something that happend at A shop no way that happen in the car during operation. The threads you posted about his vibrations were last year and he said he fixed that from a motor mount.

Op Where you messed up was not taking the car back to lethal right off the bat. It's not their fault you live 90 mins away and work alot. Letting another shop mess with it then wanting me to fix it would raise alot of flags for me also. You story doesn't really match up Either...

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Old 10-09-2013, 10:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SeaCompiler View Post
I have been reading numerous threads from different performance modification providers like Lethal and Jannetty and Livernois, MTI, etc for a long time and I would still have no reservations about taking my Camaro to any of them when I am ready. They have too good a track record to discount them over one negative experience even if it turns out to be valid, which it doesn't appear IMHO. Seems like your issue was present before Lethal received it.
This issue was NOT present before going to Lethal. I know this didnt happen as a result of gross negligence. I've ALWAYS given them the benefit of the doubt. I know it was just an accident. Why else would I consult with 6 shops? If I'd gotten mixed answers from all of them, then I would've chalked it up to dumb luck. But they ALL told me this was a direct result of an error at install.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:59 AM   #22
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So he took it to the shop you replaced the clutch and then he noticed vibration issues over 4k the next day when he got to drive it is that right? OR was it after the track outing? looking at the pictures this was clearly something that happend at A shop no way that happen in the car during operation. The threads you posted about his vibrations were last year and he said he fixed that from a motor mount.

Op Where you messed up was not taking the car back to lethal right off the bat. It's not their fault you live 90 mins away and work alot. Letting another shop mess with it then wanting me to fix it would raise alot of flags for me also. You story doesn't really match up Either...
Exactly


"We also cannot be liable to pay for work that another shop does prior to our investigations of failures. If we were given the opportunity to inspect it first you know in your heart we would have worked with you and made it right. That goes for anyone we have done work for...We were not given that opportunity to due so and we are sorry it would have been an inconvenience for you but we can not control that aspect of the situation. We simply cannot not go by the word of another shop when it comes to these situations. It MAY have been an exemption it we were notified of your plans a head of time and not after the fact."
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JLE58 View Post
So he took it to the shop you replaced the clutch and then he noticed vibration issues over 4k the next day when he got to drive it is that right? OR was it after the track outing? looking at the pictures this was clearly something that happend at A shop no way that happen in the car during operation. The threads you posted about his vibrations were last year and he said he fixed that from a motor mount.

Op Where you messed up was not taking the car back to lethal right off the bat. It's not their fault you live 90 mins away and work alot. Letting another shop mess with it then wanting me to fix it would raise alot of flags for me also. You story doesn't really match up Either...
I apologize for any confusion. The next day I noticed a funny feeling in the clutch pedal. I emailed lethal about it, but just chalked it up to the different clutch. As I said earlier, the car is a garage kept but it always felt a little "off" when driving it. I couldn't put my finger on it until I went to the track 2-3 weeks later when it ran over 4k rpm for a few seconds. I know of Lethal's reputation and so the thought that this was a direct fault of theirs never crossed my mind. Typically if I don't have bad luck, I have none at all. I'd brought it to the local shop thinking it was for a pilot exchange, which Lethal had quoted me the same price to do. When they called and told me about the shaft, I texted Shawn and offered to bring him the transmission to inspect whatever he wanted. I would've been happy to eat the cost of the labor at Futral that I incurred from them pulling it. My offer was ignored.

The car sat undriven in my garage for a month until I was able to get it anywhere. If I could've gotten it to them or if my offer to bring in the trans would've been accepted, I'm sure I would've received the explanation from Nick above, and I would've been none the wiser. Plus I knew of them covering for a fellow C5 member in Texas, so I'm literally shocked that I've been given such a hard time.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:56 AM   #24
Rabamaro
 
Drives: 2010 ABM SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prairieville, LA
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK10 View Post
Exactly


"We also cannot be liable to pay for work that another shop does prior to our investigations of failures. If we were given the opportunity to inspect it first you know in your heart we would have worked with you and made it right. That goes for anyone we have done work for...We were not given that opportunity to due so and we are sorry it would have been an inconvenience for you but we can not control that aspect of the situation. We simply cannot not go by the word of another shop when it comes to these situations. It MAY have been an exemption it we were notified of your plans a head of time and not after the fact."

I have the message I sent Shawn offering to bring it to him to inspect it!
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Vararam Tune CAI, Vararam Power Wedge, 160 degree stat, VMax ported throttle body, Ceramic coated ARH 1 7/8" LTs with X-pipe, Borla S-Type Axle back, MGW short throw, 3.91s, Ported stock IM, Night Fury cam, Heritage Grille, Backup camera, UMI Performance trailing arms and toe rods, dyno tune, 498 whp/470 tq
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #25
Rabamaro
 
Drives: 2010 ABM SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prairieville, LA
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK10 View Post
It was checked. No visible damage was found just as the dealership did not find any damage. Please see the above comment where rabamaro states he noticed the vib after leaving the track. The used clutch also was involved in a failure in the previous car.
Shawn emailed me saying it was not checked. The used clutch never failed in another car. The previous owner had a slave fail due to an improper actuator spacer his shop had used.
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Vararam Tune CAI, Vararam Power Wedge, 160 degree stat, VMax ported throttle body, Ceramic coated ARH 1 7/8" LTs with X-pipe, Borla S-Type Axle back, MGW short throw, 3.91s, Ported stock IM, Night Fury cam, Heritage Grille, Backup camera, UMI Performance trailing arms and toe rods, dyno tune, 498 whp/470 tq
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