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Old 10-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #1
SLEEPER SS
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Recommend next suspension upgrades

Looking to do some suspension work. Right now just have drop springs. What next thing would you guys do? Car rarely sees track. Most street driven.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:02 PM   #2
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With the car already being lowered I would recommend either rear cradle bushings or sway bars. Both will offer a vast improvement over the factory offering and will improve all around handling and performance.

We offer a couple different version of rear cradle bushing depending on your goals and needs. Our BMR rear cradle inserts (BK016) work in conjunction with the factory rear cradle bushings to help control the rear cradle movement. I really only recommend these if you are making less than 450HP and aren't planning on doing to much racing. The good thing about these is that they are pretty easy to install the bad is that they only offer so much rear cradle control. The next option we have is our BMR full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings (BK024) which replaces the factory rear cradle bushings. These are our most popular rear cradle bushing we offer because they are a happy medium between using the rear cradle inserts and our solid delrin rear cradle bushings. The best option for performance is our BMR solid delrin rear cradle bushings (BK027). These rear cradle bushings lock the rear cradle in place really keep there from being any kind of movement in the rear cradle itself. These off the optimal performance out of all our offerings but they are a bit more expensive because they take quite a bit more work to manufacture.

The sway bars wouldn't be a bad option either because they will help with the body roll and understeer these cars have. I would argue that the sway bars one of the modifications that offer the most seat of the pants improvement for the money. Our BMR front and rear sway bar kit (SB030) will match up with the BMR lowering springs you already have perfectly and are direct swap on your 2010 Camaro.

If we can help you out in any way let us know.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #3
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Coilovers, bushings, sways. Read justice Pete's book and buy his catalog
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:30 PM   #4
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Coilovers, bushings, sways. Read justice Pete's book and buy his catalog


D'BOOK

Pedders 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

Sway Bars

Suspension Bushes

ZL1 / CTS-V Brake Upgrade for the SS

Wheels and Tires

Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs

Pedders USA Camaro 2.0

Lingenfelter L/28 Tech

5th Gen Wheel Hop and Drag Race Setup

Thermal Management

Running Changes Made to the 5th Gen by Chevrolet

Public Track Test #1

Public Track Test #2 Camaro vs. Mustang Supercar Shootout

2013 Strut Mounts, Pedders Coilover Pre-Compression and Ride Height Settings


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLEEPER SS View Post
Looking to do some suspension work. Right now just have drop springs. What next thing would you guys do? Car rarely sees track. Most street driven.
Sleeper,

Before we start throwing parts at your Camaro, could you please tell us about how you like to drive, any motorsports activities, plans to increase RWHP?
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:56 PM   #5
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Well it's a street car. Rarely hit the track. I drive it pretty aggresive don't baby it lol . And rwhp by December should be in 700s rwhp . Right now full bolt ons making 370 rwhp l99
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:28 PM   #6
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Well it's a street car. Rarely hit the track. I drive it pretty aggresive don't baby it lol . And rwhp by December should be in 700s rwhp . Right now full bolt ons making 370 rwhp l99
700 RWHP!

What wheels and tires are planned for the 700RWHP?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:35 PM   #7
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700 RWHP!

What wheels and tires are planned for the 700RWHP?
Hopefully not the wheels in his avatar
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:38 AM   #8
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Snce you have a 2010 i would upgrade the rear LCA when you do the sway bars. The newer cars use a more efficient geometry than the 2010 Camaros.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #9
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All bushings in the rear. Trailing arms to help with wheel hop from 700rwhp. Some sways will help the car try and stick some of that hp to the ground
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:35 PM   #10
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Will be getting some 18s and drag radials for the track
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:55 PM   #11
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Will be getting some 18s and drag radials for the track
Got it. 700 RWHP with Slicks = Serious Suspension. Here is some light reading.

5th Gen Wheel Hop and Drag Race Setup



Setup is more important on an IRS than a traditional solid axle because there are so many more variables in an IRS. Now is a good time to talk about wheel hop.

The #1 source of wheel hop on a 5th Gen Camaro is found in the OEM SUB-FRAME bushes. That would be the reason Chevrolet upgrade the sub-frame bushes by partially filling the Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH) voids starting with the 2012 5th Gen Vert. The OEM sub-frame bushes are still biased toward NVH concerns and not burn-outs, or performance at the drags or road course weekends. The NVH voided original or slightly improved OEM sub-frame bushes allow the entire IRS to shift side to side while under-load. This motion changes the dynamic alignment of your 5th Gen creating rear end steer, rear end step out and contributing to wheel hop

The #2 source of wheel hop, particularly on lowered Camaros is INCORRECT ALIGNMENT. Too much negative camber places the load of launch primarily on the inside shoulder of the rear tire. Spinning an inch and a half strip of tire doesn't take much HP. Aligning your 5th Gen to less than -.5 degrees rear camber with a TOE IN .17 improves your drag launch by using 90% or more of your rear tires to put power down.

The #3 source of wheel hop is deflection in the toe link bushes. We are not talking about toe link arm deflection we are talking about bush squish in the arm. How do I know? Hard engineering data. When GM built the Leno Twin Turbo Camaro they were not satisfied with the handling. Jay's Camaro has a very aggressive set of wheels and tires that increase the load on the suspension. In speaking with some members of the build TEAM I suggested a couple of Pedders upgrades in addition to the Xa coilovers that were already installed at the Milford Proving Grounds. Being a structured and data driven company, the build TEAM decided they should measure and document the issues on a shaker.





You can see a Camaro on GM's Shaker Rig at 55 seconds in.





What were the results of Leno's car on the SHAKER? The data and data points belong to Chevrolet and GM. The EP1200 sub-frame inserts and EP7323 Toe Link Bushes may be on Mr. Leno's Camaro, but they belong to me. With the introduction of the ZL1 there is now an OE alternative. The sealed monoball ZL1 / 1LE toe links are an excellent choice.

The OEM rear trailing arm bush is great for driving in the 8/10ths range. Pushed to 10/10ths or 11/10ths it allows too much movement creating instability. The increase in stability is enormous. Using a durometer you can see the differences in material hardness. Normally you wouldn't use a durometer to measure the hardness of steel. We did that for illustrative purposes. Both rubber and urethane soften with heat. Using Pedders EP7265Z in the knuckle for the trailing arm reduces motion because there is less material and the material that is there is harder than the OE rubber bush.





Getting a good reading on the edge of the bush was problematic. The durometer is 85.







The #4 source of wheel hop on a 5th Gen is the tie and tread compound. Check around the forum and see what happens with wheel hop when you run DRs and Slicks

The #5 source of wheel hop is a combination of modest spring rate and a damper map biased a bit too much to ride comfort. We spent a long time working with Lingenfelter to develop a dedicated set of drag coilovers. The front coil rate is 4.5kg and the rear is 12kg. The front monotube has a longer stroke than stock. The rear monotube is a massive 52mm diameter unit that is maxed out for bound control. High RWHP Camaros with slicks bite so har the launch is violent. They compres the rear suspension so fast that it bounces off the bumpstops. Keep in mind this was measured using a well known set of brand-x coilovers on the LPE Black Pig. When we bolted on out of the box Pedders Supercars the Black Pig picked up 2/10ths in the 60'. After we tested, refined and tested and.... you get the idea the LPE Drag Coilovers delivered more than 3/10ths improvement in the 60'

The #6 source of wheel hop is related to side to side load distribution. The factory rear sway bar 2010 to 2011 is a 23mm hollow tube that mounts inboard close to the differential. It is a light weight bar by any measure. The 2012 FE4 features an improved sway bar mounting position that is close to the knuckle. This is a HUGE improvement in geometry and function. The ZL1 comes of the assembly line with a 28mm SOLID bar. The change in geometry coupled with the change in bar strength (GM is now using solid sway bars just like Pedders Camaro sway bars) more effectively distribute load on hard launch. Upgrading to OE Rear Lower Control Arms with the new FE4 / ZL1 sway bar mounting points and a ZL1 28mm solid rear bar will imporve your drag launch. If you are looking for even more improvement your ONLY option is Pedders new 2010 to 2011 ZL1 32mm solid rear bar complete with GM ZL1 Arms and Pedders Droplinks. If you have a 2012 all you'll need is the ZL1 Rear Sway Bar Upgrade.

The #7 source of wheel hop is driveline movement. Driveline twist or driveline torque is a mini-wheel-hop motion. Replacing the OEM NVH biased differential bushes is the first place to start. The front two differential bushes are under heavy load, but that load is dwarfed by the load that the rear differential bush carries. Our solution is the new EP1167HDZ. The front two bushes are very high durometer urethane and the rear bush is machined Acetal for maximum control for optimized launches.

When you are serious about your 5th Gen performance on the drag strip your solutions are found at Pedders and Lingenfelter. If you get serious so do we. We provide special support to the LPE Black Pig and her support crew.

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Old 10-10-2013, 04:20 PM   #12
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looks like ima do all bushings and sway bars for now. Should I go with bmr?
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:20 PM   #13
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Was looking at pedders. Who's a vendor on here?
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:36 PM   #14
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Was looking at pedders. Who's a vendor on here?
Maureen Rogers Chevrolet
Rob Anderson Wretched
Bruce Raymond Raymond's Performance
Mike Haddad Haddad Motorsports
Jordan Priestly JDP
Tom Henry Tom Henry Chevrolet / THR Tom Henry Racing
Summit Racing

I am sure I left out quite a few. PM me your Zip Code and I'll reply with my nearest dealer. We have a 'factory' store at PeddersUSA.com as well.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:44 PM   #15
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looks like ima do all bushings and sway bars for now. Should I go with bmr?
We would definitely be more than happy to help you out if you decide to use BMR Suspension products. Let me know what part numbers you are looking at and will get you some custom package pricing on the parts.

Kyle
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:27 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=SLEEPER SS;7082324]Was looking at pedders. Who's a vendor on here?[/QUOTE
I would be happy to help you with your Pedders parts.Sounds like you are planning some serious power.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:55 PM   #17
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Bruce send me a pm
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