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Old 10-15-2013, 03:04 PM   #205
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so, has anyone here that is talking smack ever DRIVEN on a race track in the rain? because I have... professionally... and let me tell you, it's not nearly as easy as some guys make it look


that track was wet in several places that you can't see/hear in the video... you can tell by the way he slows down and keeps his RPMs lower to stop from breaking the rear tires loose... he keeps it at 6,000 RPM in 5th gear on the long straight... compared to the ZR1 video from 2011, that's 600rpm less than the ZR1 in the same 5th gear... and 1,000 RPM less than he ran 4th gear to just before he started the long straight... so there is definitely a little left on the table.

another something I would like to point out is his hands and the steering wheel during the video... only in the rain does he ever have to *fight* the car... the steering wheel stays steady and he seems like he is just driving it like it's nothing... go watch a video of the GTR or Viper or even the ZR1 and watch the steering wheel: it twitches and the drivers have to fight it to keep the car in line... the Z/28 doesn't do that... at all... only when it's raining at the end does he have to really MAKE the car do what he wants it to... this, to me, indicates one of two things: 1) he isn't pushing it as hard as he could have... or 2) this car is exceptionally planted and steady compared to cars that are WAY more expensive... either of which means that a good driver on a dry day would have shaved several more seconds off the lap time.

videos for comparison:

GTR



Viper ACR-X



ZR1

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Old 10-15-2013, 03:10 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Jim968 View Post
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of track driving. A car will never post its best time in the rain. For some reason (which I don't understand) they were unable to video a balls out lap on a traffic free dry track.
I simply restated what was in the press release. They ran the car for 24hrs (I assume that is a lot of runs) and the best time was the time they put in the release, which happen to be on a wet track. So, unless the track was wet for the entire 24hr testing period, a dry track did not provide a better result. Do I have to be a track rat to understand what I just stated is incorrect?
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:14 PM   #207
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7:20 range?? No way. I can see low 7:30 range.
Their telemetry tells them they can get to 7:31.xx with that driver. Local knowlege is hugely important at that track. Change out the driver for a local hot shoe and offer him a bonus to crack into the 7:29's. I guarantee he'll get there.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:21 PM   #208
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I simply restated what was in the press release. They ran the car for 24hrs (I assume that is a lot of runs) and the best time was the time they put in the release, which happen to be on a wet track. So, unless the track was wet for the entire 24hr testing period, a dry track did not provide a better result. Do I have to be a track rat to understand what I just stated is incorrect?
If you read the press release, and still don't understand why some of us keep saying that it could have pulled a better time with a dry track then I can't help you.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:25 PM   #209
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so, has anyone here that is talking smack ever DRIVEN on a race track in the rain?
Yes. More times than I can count. All of your points are 100% correct.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:31 PM   #210
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And I know this is going to come off as a "I told you so" post. that is not my intent. Doc seems to be very knowledgable what makes cars go through the twisties fast and I just wanted to know if he was surprised by what we have seen as the official time
Now that I know the power is 505 hp and they did that run with some of the fastest parts of the track in the rain, that time is actually quite impressive. I was honestly expecting the engine would be more like 520-525 hp which would make the difference, so my original estimate was based on that expectation. I have no doubt the car as it is can run in the high 7:20's in better weather conditions which for a showroom stock Camaro is absolutely spectacular.

It looks and sounds fantastic on the course. It appears that Stielow got the damping of the shocks dialed in perfectly; the car is very un-dramatic on the most dramatic track in the world. Put a few add-ons to add a few more hp and that thing is going to be unreal. I can't wait to see what Randy Pobst does with it at Laguna Seca.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #211
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I can't wait to see what Randy Pobst does with it at Laguna Seca.

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Old 10-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #212
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For some reason (which I don't understand) they were unable to video a balls out lap on a traffic free dry track.
(which I don't understand) = Lack of time.

People should know this:
Every Motorsport outing of any kind is ALWAYS dictate by time.
There is X amount of it and then it's finish.
Win or lose, Better lap time or not, we pack up and go home...till next time.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:52 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by mkorgan View Post
I simply restated what was in the press release. They ran the car for 24hrs (I assume that is a lot of runs) and the best time was the time they put in the release, which happen to be on a wet track. So, unless the track was wet for the entire 24hr testing period, a dry track did not provide a better result. Do I have to be a track rat to understand what I just stated is incorrect?
Perhaps restating a different part of the press release will help you understand:
Quote:
Based on telemetry data from our test sessions, we know the Z/28 can be as much as six seconds faster on a dry track.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Mikamaro View Post
(which I don't understand) = Lack of time.

People should know this:
Every Motorsport outing of any kind is ALWAYS dictate by time.
There is X amount of it and then it's finish.
Win or lose, Better lap time or not, we pack up and go home...till next time.
Agreed, but as we know time=$$$. GM should have spent the $$$ to keep them there until a clear, dry track was available. That's what Porsche, and most other competitors would have done.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Jim968 View Post
For some reason (which I don't understand) they were unable to video a balls out lap on a traffic free dry track.
We don't know the reason or reasons until Al releases that information, or not.

They could have had issues with some element of the car that weren't resolved until the final wet day at the ring.

The track may have been so busy they couldn't get a clean lap.

Maybe it took Adam Dean until the wet afternoon to get comfortable with the car and the track.

What we do know is that the car is capable of a stunning lap time, even under less than ideal conditions.

We don't know what Al O meant when he said telemetry. Could be the engine wasn't making full power, or the brake cal needs to be refined, or .... I am reasonably sure it is track sector times. On a good weather day, with a good driver, with plenty of seat time in the car and on the track you can almost bank track sector times in a fast lap.

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Old 10-15-2013, 04:10 PM   #216
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This thread needs more celebration and less explanation. A frickin CAMARO a 4000 pound brick is kickin some serious azz!! Lets leave all the excuses to the poor schmoes who will see nothing but Z/28 taillights on the track!!

Roll out the parts bin Chevy!!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:21 PM   #217
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Agreed, but as we know time=$$$. GM should have spent the $$$ to keep them there until a clear, dry track was available. That's what Porsche, and most other competitors would have done.
Why? The results was achieve.
They proved that this Camaro is the Fastest of them all & beating some high-ends Germano-Italian-Ricers...in the wet on top of it.
Now, that's bragging rights.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:32 PM   #218
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I posted this on gun forum I go on. Another member races Camaros and he said he drove the Z/28 on MRC and they told him the Z/28 ran a 7:31.XX in better weather but that was not on video. When the weather improves, they will go back and try for a faster time.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:00 PM   #219
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I posted this on gun forum I go on. Another member races Camaros and he said he drove the Z/28 on MRC and they told him the Z/28 ran a 7:31.XX in better weather but that was not on video. When the weather improves, they will go back and try for a faster time.
lets hope they go back, but I doubt it. It is a shame that something so highly anticipated has been compromised by "what if". A 7:31.XX run would silence everything. If Al would just come out and publically say that (which I guess he kinda did in the 6 sec reference), I don't need a video. I would take his word for it and we would all be happy.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:03 PM   #220
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Interesting Article

Camaro Z/28 sets speedy 'Ring time


Chevrolet said that the 2014 Camaro Z/28 lapped Germany’s challenging Nürburgring road course in 7:37.40 on October 15, 2013, a time comparable with some of the world’s most prestigious sports cars.
1 hr ago | By Clifford Atiyeh of MSN Autos


Beating Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari should make Camaro enthusiasts quite happy.



Nürburgring lap times let automakers throw dirt on each other, and to some extent, lets the public know that their cars are really, really fast.

Chevrolet is the latest brand to brag about setting a 7-minute-something lap time on Germany's 12.9-mile Nordschleife, a closed toll road that lets anyone speed to their heart's content. The 2014 Camaro Z/28 posted a 7:37.40 time, beating the Porsche 911 Carrera S by a few tenths and the more powerful Camaro ZL1 by several seconds. And because 'Ring laps are not the place for modesty, Chevy said that the 505-horsepower Z/28 would have been six seconds faster had the track not been wet.

Of course, the Camaro Z/28 is nowhere near Porsche's all-time record for a production road car. In September, the German automaker claimed the first sub-7-minute lap time in its 918 Spyder, ripping apart every exotic car ever to post a public time (you can see the 100 best times here).
Porsche 918 Spyder laps the 'Ring in 6:57
Photos: 15 coolest Camaros through the years
2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 roars into Big Apple
But as a $50,000 piece of American muscle (the price is yet to be finalized), it's quite impressive to see the Z/28 out-hustle supercars such as the Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera, Ferrari F430 Scuderia, Audi R8 V10 and Lexus LFA. Chevrolet said the Z/28 is 300 pounds lighter than the ZL1, which packs a 560-horsepower supercharged 6.2-liter V8 engine. By contrast, the Z/28 rocks a larger normally-aspirated 7.0-liter V8 with 505 horsepower.

Optional carbon-ceramic brakes and a standard 6-speed manual transmission helped test drivers breeze through 10 hours on the 'Ring, part of a 24-hour total endurance test on multiple tracks that General Motors has performed on all of its performance cars since the C4 Corvette. American automakers such as GM have only paid attention to 'Ring times in the past decade to better compete with European sports cars. Cadillac has taken itself to task with the CTS-V, and most recently, the 2014 CTS Vsport.

The Z/28 also hit an amazing 1.08 Gs of lateral acceleration on the 'Ring with help from an active braking rear differential which can individually apply brakes in corners, like Porsche, to steer the car more tightly. We can't wait to try this on our favorite on-ramp.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:07 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by mkorgan View Post
lets hope they go back, but I doubt it. It is a shame that something so highly anticipated has been compromised by "what if". A 7:31.XX run would silence everything. If Al would just come out and publically say that (which I guess he kinda did in the 6 sec reference), I don't need a video. I would take his word for it and we would all be happy.

I get what you are saying about taking his word for it but seeing it on video would be that much sweeter.
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