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Old 07-14-2009, 10:30 PM   #326
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:36 PM   #327
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Time to do some serious thinking
Gus
Please do. Just don't forget to consider that you're witnessing first-hand how the company you'd be buying from is taking every possible precaution against sending you a faulty vehicle from the get-go...
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:41 PM   #328
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GM's Doing The Right Thing, But...

I really, really wanted to buy a 2010 SS to go with my 1998 SS. But the whole ordering/production process was so lengthy that I gave up and bought a 2009 Mustang Bullitt. GM is doing the right thing by holding shipment of the M6's, but it just adds to the frustration of potential buyers.

As for first year production issues, I bought a 1993 Z28 in May of that year, and the car performed flawlessly for 82,000 miles. When they changed to the LS1 in 1998, I bought an SS/M6 in May of that year. It now has 145,000 miles with no engine or transmission problems, ever. With the amount of time that GM had to get the 2010 into production, everything should have right, straight from the factory.

As for foreign cars, I bought a new 280Z in 1975, and it was a total rust bucket. It was a fun car to drive, but I had to have it stripped and repainted twice in six years, thanks to cheap Japanese steel. And, it went through two head gaskets in the same time span. So it can and does happen to all car manufacturers from time to time.

I'm not trashing GM on this, but they did lose a sale to Ford. I may come back to Chevy eventually, but for now I'm back where I started -- in a Mustang (first new car I ever purchased was a 1973 Mach 1/Cleveland 351/4 speed).
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:45 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
A couple of thoughts --

To those who are 'fed up' with GM and "American Products" --

Every manufacturer has issues such as this.

The issue is a supplier problem and it DOES NOT INVOLVE EVERY 6-speed manual transmission.


Once again I'll say this: there IS a downside to sharing information....and this is a perfect example of it.

We could clam up and perhapsyou'd never know about it...but to the Camaro Team, that would not be the right thing to do.

If you think that BMW and Mercedes and other foreign manufacturers don't have similar issues, you're wrong.

WHAT I RECOMMEND: (....from a PERSONAL viewpoint......)


DO NOT do 6,000 RPMS and then DUMP the clutch.

That's a foolish thing to do....regardless of what you are driving.

I'm not saying you have to 'baby' the car -- but don't go out and 'flog hell outta it!"

Meanwhile - we will have more info. as details develop.


Here here..... thanks for reminding eeryone that GM only puts them together. Most issues are caused by suppliers when it comes to things like this.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:49 PM   #330
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I think everyone here is right.

It sucks that this is happening.

GM is sincere about fixing this before delivering more faulty transmissions.

It's outstanding that they listen to us here at Camaro5, and took action accordingly - again. We're like partners.

If my new car went BANG!, when I was smoking my tires, I'd be pissed.

Warranty smarranty, I HATE wasting my time on faulty car service trips.


All we can do now is wait for a root cause, which will then reveal the size and scope of the problem.

If the design is too weak, say it needs more splines or diameter on the output shaft, then all M6's will be involved.

If it is however, as one dealer technician told a member, a heat treating problem; Then we may have a limited number of units affected.

Please try to be patient; and GM, let us know what you determine as the root cause, and solution.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:07 PM   #331
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Figures, mines apparently been at holding facility in Oshawa for the last month.

I gave my business card to the dealer June of 2008 so that i could be contacted when orders are being taken, i found out Feb of 09 that orders started in October of 2008, unfortunately the old salesguy no longer works for the dealer and never passed on the information.
So i ordered the Camaro in February, it was finally built June 14, i finally got a VIN number, then i get told it was randomly selected to quality control, i knew it was bull and that there was something else.....

The other Camaro in my town arrived 2 weeks ago, but im still waiting.... maybe it will arrive in time to be stored for winter.... LOL
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:42 PM   #332
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Hmmm only the SS Manual, I'm guessing Snapped Output shafts would be the obvious reason....? Anything else would also effect the LS LT's.. And regarding the IMPoRT VS GM.. A new BMW is Gonna run you $60K plus and you cant compare our cars to high end handling in mind cars like BMS and BENZs Etc. Dude what do you want for $38K our cars look awesome, and have killer power, you cant expect them to be problem free, after all they are Chevys, and they are muscle cars, a COMPLETELY Different animal than a BMW... I feel Lucky to have the 2SS for a steal at $38K!
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:44 PM   #333
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Figures, mines apparently been at holding facility in Oshawa for the last month.

I gave my business card to the dealer June of 2008 so that i could be contacted when orders are being taken, i found out Feb of 09 that orders started in October of 2008, unfortunately the old salesguy no longer works for the dealer and never passed on the information.
So i ordered the Camaro in February, it was finally built June 14, i finally got a VIN number, then i get told it was randomly selected to quality control, i knew it was bull and that there was something else.....

The other Camaro in my town arrived 2 weeks ago, but im still waiting.... maybe it will arrive in time to be stored for winter.... LOL
I knew something was up when a guy that ordered from the same place I did got his car last week and ours were built on the same day(25th of June) He got a LT, I got a SS. I was very confident I would get it this week for sure but not any more! Could possibly be weeks now. I'll find out tomorrow if it has been shipped yet. Hopefully, but probably not since if it was I would of thought it would be here by now. I wonder what Scott's view of " Very Quikly " is. Mine is one or two days at the most. His could be one or two weeks. This massive amount of problems/issues so far has honestly really suprised me. S*** happens I guess, right? Still love GM and I would love to believe they are doing their best. I guess someone's best just isn't good enough sometimes. The long wait continues.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:55 PM   #334
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My 2SS/RS shipped 07/03/09. Due in any day now. I hope GM puts out a recall fix. I would hate to hear that sound under a load. I will be babying it until a good break in anyway, now I will baby it until the recall comes out. AT least I can test fit all the vinyl designs I created, so I am glad the car shipped.

Freakin' Tremec. And these trannies are in many cars, including Mustang, Challenger, Corvette, Mustang.

Thanks GM for pulling out all stops and finding the fault and making them own up. The factory for the tranny is probably up to max out put to keep up with the demand..........they need to slow down and test their product.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:57 PM   #335
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Over at GMInsideNews this is being discussed. Some people there pointed to threads showing that this is also happening to the Tremec 6060 in the Challenger and the GT500s. I went to their forums to confirm, and you can read about the same thing happening to them there. It is supposedly an issue from the supplier (Tremec) with a specific BATCH of transmissions.

Horriffic luck for the Camaro program. How can it be that the T56 and now 6060 have been absolutely BULLET PROOF for almost 2 decades now, and right when GM introduces our new Camaro, a bad batch of trannys gets produced?!?! I own a Viper also, and have not heard of this over there. BUT, the Viper has been out of production for a while now, and they were building so few of them right there at the end, they may not have received any of the bad trannies. Anyone have any insight into the Corvette world to see if THEY are getting bit with this???
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:58 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
Well here is my 2 cents...GM is doing the right thing by holding the cars; yes, I hold them responsible for any of their supplier problems (I'm in manufacturing and would expect my head to be handed to me if I tried to tell a customer that is wasn't my problem, it was my supplier's problem). As for never doing 6K launches...isn't this a performance car? I've done heavy launches from time-to-time in my 1967 Z-28's...and now 42 years of technology later the car can't handle it? I'm sorry, that's just not acceptable to me. I was at the dealer on Saturday finalizing my factory order...I think I'll wait a few months now to see how this car stands up...

Zedder -- My comments were meant for 'right now' -- we're working thru the issue - it does not involve all M6 transmissions -- we believe it's a small amount.

Some were concerned about being 'stranded' - -and thus my comments.

Of COURSE you should be able to do it....that said, is it wise to abuse a car or truck? I don't think so.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:09 AM   #337
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Zedder -- My comments were meant for 'right now' -- we're working thru the issue - it does not involve all M6 transmissions -- we believe it's a small amount.

Some were concerned about being 'stranded' - -and thus my comments.

Of COURSE you should be able to do it....that said, is it wise to abuse a car or truck? I don't think so.
And I Meant to thank you too fbodfather, for keeping us up to date. I know that too much info can work against you some times, but in the long run I feel honesty and working with the consumer is NEVER wrong.

Thanks for all your contribution to the forum. Hope to shake your hand one day, going to Sema this year?
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:20 AM   #338
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Umm ok, how about the new GTR when Launch Control is used it can seriously damage the vehicle when done too many times and Nissan is refusing the warranties!

or how about when the VW New Beetle was released in 1998 ALL OF THEM WERE RECALLED due to the fuse box on top of the battery possibly catching fire.

I had a 2000 Toyota Celica and the Spoiler bolts had the same problem

New 2009 VW Jetta's have a recall due to the driveshaft bolts backing out of the transmission.

I could go on and on with vehicle issues that have nothing to do with GM but I thnk you get the idea.

You are a systems engineer, good for you. I'm sure you took extensive classes in that field. IT IS NOT THE AUTOMOTIVE FIELD. It may be similar but it is not the same.

I give GM alot of credit for not allowing these cars to leave the plant due to a potential issue.



I'm sure GM is fully aware they are under a microscope which is probably why they are not allowing these cars to leave the factory and they are trying to resolve the problem in-house before they have to release an extensive recall.

I am waiting for a 2SS/RS/LS3 So my wait just got longer. I would much rather wait than have a broken car sitting on a lift in my GM dealership waiting for a part while I am still making payments on the car.
Amen brother i think we need to all back our american founded companys and support them the best we can without looking for things to nitpick over my car was supposed to be built july 20th so i guess i will wait and see but like you said whatever there holding it for im sure they have good reason and with as hard as im gonna drive her "techco supercharger" i need her strong like bull.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:22 AM   #339
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Well said...this is not acceptable.





As I recall...ArcAngel made a comment about some interior quality issues a couple of months ago (re: an interior photo taken at the Oshawa plant, you may remember...fit and finish from the dash panel to the door panel) and almost had his head cut off for pointing out something that was actually valid... Now, so many weeks later... we have a major drivetrain issue and I am reading the same crappy excuses and justififcations I read before...Pathetic.



This line makes me laugh... like there isn't an internet (forums) and no-one would have voiced this issue with their Camaro as it arised...had GM/Chevy not said anything!

Wow...GM is being accountable for a product they produced. Anything other than that would be like selling me $h!+ and denying it smells!




Well said!





Absolutely, understood.





No, no its not. How embarrasing. I give you credit for being so positive about the whole situation...but that's ridiculous.







You are right...I am very jealous that I don't have to wait in the service department at a dealership having to have my brand new 2010 Camaros transmission fixed/replaced. I am very envious.

Here is the nail...and sir, you just hit it right on the head...

Elvis -- there are so many things wrong with your post ...........


It is a supplier problem.

Other manufacturers using these transmissions are also experiencing problems.

We did not do this on purpose - and neither did the supplier.

The Supplier does not want to put out inferior products and neither do we.

We are working as fast as we can to see the 'population' of this problem.

I don't believe there is another manufacturer of automobiles that has people spending this amount of time on the internet interacting with our customers. No -- we don't expect platitudes, but frankly I'm growing weary of your 'rants'

I'll let others address your 'points' it's now 1:21 am and I've been up since 5:00am --
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:24 AM   #340
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From MotorTrend:

Quote:
Because the Camaro uses the same Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual transmission as the Corvette and several other high-powered sports cars, it's likely that this problem stems from a bad run of gearboxes, not an engineering defect, and will likely only affect a handful of cars.

As Chevrolet has just begun investigating the issue, no announcements have been made yet about how to deal with or avoid the issue or how to get it fixed. Until this matter is sorted out, we'd recommend that anyone driving a manual transmission Camaro SS take it easy and avoid hard launches, just to be safe. Those who haven't taken delivery of their manual transmission cars yet will also have to wait a bit longer, but given the popularity of the car, it's likely GM will get shipments restarted as soon as possible.
http://wot.motortrend.com/6563690/au...res/index.html
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:37 AM   #341
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You guys know me,I don't drink the kool-aid here.
HOWEVER
GM/FBOD are doing the right thing here. They got the shaft from Tremec (no pun intended) LOL

You would think I'd be screaming after 8 months and my TPW is 7/13 but I'm not. They are doing the right thing. Let's just hope it don't turn into a Area 51 debacle.

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Old 07-15-2009, 01:42 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by TheNetGarage View Post
My 2SS/RS shipped 07/03/09. Due in any day now. I hope GM puts out a recall fix. I would hate to hear that sound under a load. I will be babying it until a good break in anyway, now I will baby it until the recall comes out. AT least I can test fit all the vinyl designs I created, so I am glad the car shipped.

Freakin' Tremec. And these trannies are in many cars, including Mustang, Challenger, Corvette, Mustang.

Thanks GM for pulling out all stops and finding the fault and making them own up. The factory for the tranny is probably up to max out put to keep up with the demand..........they need to slow down and test their product.
are you sure about this? because mine and some others were told our cars were shipped and even got ETA dates to find out they were never shipped...and are in QC right now...i just dont understand why i would be told its shipped when its not...i got all excited for nothing and even came home early from my trip to the mohegan sun casino resort just incase my car came i could get it saturay and not wait to monday...till this day my dealer still says its showing in transit in their system....

im not trying to being an ass or anything, i just dont want you to be as let down as i was :(
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:44 AM   #343
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And you're not either.


Dam* right he isn't.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:05 AM   #344
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For all of you pepole looking at buying a new Camaro after reading some of these...

Don't let pepole scare you out of having the most fun driving you can get for 37,000.00.

LOOK I have put over 2,700 clutch droping miles on my 2SS RS LS3 ( in three weeks ) and I cant find anything wrong with this car! no lose nuts, no rattles and no broken transmission.
I'm not saying nothing will go wrong, but if it does GM will fix it.
I get 25 mpg on the freeway at 74mph.
And yes it is fast and quick!
This is by far the funnest car I have ever driven. ( well the ford pinto was pretty fun till it got rearended and blew up!)

Don't worry just enjoy!
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:11 AM   #345
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Zedder -- My comments were meant for 'right now' -- we're working thru the issue - it does not involve all M6 transmissions -- we believe it's a small amount.

Some were concerned about being 'stranded' - -and thus my comments.

Of COURSE you should be able to do it....that said, is it wise to abuse a car or truck? I don't think so.
Thanks Scott..

My car was built a few weeks ago and is almost at the dealer I will be picking the car up at this weekend. I am planning a big roadtrip to get the car in Tampa from Miami however am worried about this situation as my car could be affected. If you do find it is within a certain range of vins, please let us know ASAP. I post my vin below incase there is anyone who can let me know if mines one in the bad batch or near the VIN's of others who have had this problem.. Thanks for your help Scott in seeing us all thru this.

VIN 2G1 FS1E WX A9122517
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:06 AM   #346
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I think this is a brilliant strategy by GM to weed out the wimps! Want to eliminate whining, "problem" type customers? Just issue a statement of some kind about anything and see who bails out....those are the people you now won't have to sit on the phone with for hours listening to their whining and moaning about every STUPID LITTLE THING they can find to claim the sky is falling.

"Stress" over ordering, waiting for your order?? Give me a break; my GOD we have a lot of total pansies nowadays. Stress is sitting in a waiting room for hours hoping and praying someone you love makes it out of surgery alive and okay. Stress is laying on the table being prepared for that surgery. Stress is being in combat. Stress is wondering moment to moment if you're going to survive in a life-threatening situation.

Having to "wait" a few more days for your high performance luxury car? I'd be absolutely freaking ashamed to claim that was "stress".

Sorry, this thread has been quite a stunner to wake up to this morning... mostly because of some of the comments and the outbreak of chicken little-itis.

EVERY mass manufactured item has various issues along the way, especially one that's brand new and never been produced before. It happens... handle it. It isn't an "issue" until it can't be fixed or the manufacturer refuses to fix it; this isn't an issue. They're on it, they'll fix it. My car is supposed to go TWP on the 27th; do I want to see a delay? No of course not. Am I going to flop around on the floor, scream and whine if there is a delay? No of course not; I'll WAIT like an ADULT until they get this sorted out.

</rant>





this sir is absolutely the best post i have seen on this thread and this forum i have seen in a while


thank you very much Doc for finally saying it with class, and for making it unnecessary for me to respond and probably get banned in the processes from calling people out lol
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:43 AM   #347
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Anyone else just given up on getting updates, stopped caring, and will just wait to be excited when the dealer calls to tell you it showed up?



that would be the sane thing to do for a few people
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:00 AM   #348
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For all of you pepole looking at buying a new Camaro after reading some of these...

Don't let pepole scare you out of having the most fun driving you can get for 37,000.00.

LOOK I have put over 2,700 clutch droping miles on my 2SS RS LS3 ( in three weeks ) and I cant find anything wrong with this car! no lose nuts, no rattles and no broken transmission.
I'm not saying nothing will go wrong, but if it does GM will fix it.
I get 25 mpg on the freeway at 74mph.
And yes it is fast and quick!
This is by far the funnest car I have ever driven. ( well the ford pinto was pretty fun till it got rearended and blew up!)

Don't worry just enjoy!
I have to agree with you on every point you made. I got my 2SS/RS manual on June the 4th and just turned over 4,000 miles this week. The car has been PERFECT "NO ISSUES". I have done "well too many, this is hard to resist" launches with and without launch control, my car seem fine at this point. By all means I am going to take it easy for a few days until GM works this out with the vendor and I suggest you do the same. GM will do the right thing I am sure. I just don't want to take any chances on not getting to drive my Camaro for a few days, this car is GREAT! I guess it is time for a tire conservation week anyway. I am going to enjoy my car and not worry; it is not something that just happens without very aggressive launch and a lot of traction it in my opinion. I can wait a little while.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:01 AM   #349
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I picked up my 2SS/RS-M6 last week. Vin 15xxx. No problems with the car thus far but I only have 50 miles on it. Cosmetically, the car is outstanding. Less paint flaws than my 2008 BMW M3. I'm concerned about the tranny issues because I will take a road trip this weekend. Can someone please tell me what symptoms to watch for with regard to the tranny? Any help is appreciated. Many regards.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:18 AM   #350
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The vin of the car I took delivery of yesterday was 2G1FT1EW8A9122903. It has a manual transmission.
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