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Old 10-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #1
stevey_frac
 
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V6 Occasional Tracking Setup

Hey Guys,

Complete suspension upgrade noob, so go easy on me.

I'm looking at setting up my car to do occasional racking on a local track here.

I don't want to sacrifice too much in the way of road comfort, or NVH, so I'm guessing that implies a fairly mild setup.

What should I be looking at?

The 1LE track pack looks like a fairly decent setup and cost effective, but I'm not sure about ride quality and noise.

Thoughts?

I am going to end up getting the Michelin Pilot super sport tires in the spring, which should make a difference.

Thanks!
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:17 PM   #2
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Is GM shipping sub-frame bushings with the 1LE package?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:02 PM   #3
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Is GM shipping sub-frame bushings with the 1LE package?
I don't think so.

Here is the description:

Designed as a replacement package for Camaro SS models, this suspension kit features the same suspension and drivetrain components used in the production 1LE performance package. Contents include a larger, 27mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control, as well as ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by stevey_frac View Post
I don't think so.

Here is the description:

Designed as a replacement package for Camaro SS models, this suspension kit features the same suspension and drivetrain components used in the production 1LE performance package. Contents include a larger, 27mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control, as well as ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance.
Are your rear wheels and tires larger than your fronts?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #5
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Having a dependable set of brakes is just as important as cutting fast corners.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:33 AM   #6
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Are your rear wheels and tires larger than your fronts?
Yes. I have the RS package with the 20 inch pirellis.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:35 AM   #7
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Having a dependable set of brakes is just as important as cutting fast corners.
About the only thing I can do for brakes is throw a set of racing pads on, and perhaps rig up some cooling vents. SS brakes are expensive and too large for my winter rims and tires.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
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About the only thing I can do for brakes is throw a set of racing pads on, and perhaps rig up some cooling vents. SS brakes are expensive and too large for my winter rims and tires.
Braided steel lines will help some. What kind of racing? Road/AutoX/Drag?
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #9
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Braided steel lines will help some. What kind of racing? Road/AutoX/Drag?
Road racing, sorry. That should have been in post 1.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:19 AM   #10
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The experts may disagree with me and if they do, take their advice but if you're going to be doing road racing which implies an actual race course not a parking lot full of cones, you're going to need brembos. The v6 brakes will fade before the end of the session and you'll be left with almost no brakes. If I were doing road course racing, brakes are the first thing I'd do and ensure are good enoughoto slow me down. I'd hate to come into a turn only to find out my brakes aren't stopping me anymore.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #11
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The experts may disagree with me and if they do, take their advice but if you're going to be doing road racing which implies an actual race course not a parking lot full of cones, you're going to need brembos. The v6 brakes will fade before the end of the session and you'll be left with almost no brakes. If I were doing road course racing, brakes are the first thing I'd do and ensure are good enoughoto slow me down. I'd hate to come into a turn only to find out my brakes aren't stopping me anymore.
I'm concerned about this as well, but as I mentioned earlier, the SS brakes are very pricey, and won't fit in my winter wheels.

Cooling ducts, race pads, and DOT 4 brake fluid will hopefully go a long way to reducing fade. I won't be racing at this point until the spring, so I have some time.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Road racing, sorry. That should have been in post 1.
The 1LE package would be great for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevey_frac View Post
I'm concerned about this as well, but as I mentioned earlier, the SS brakes are very pricey, and won't fit in my winter wheels.

Cooling ducts, race pads, and DOT 4 brake fluid will hopefully go a long way to reducing fade. I won't be racing at this point until the spring, so I have some time.
Like LSCamaro said, you will need brakes. Spend some time in the classified section and see if you can pick up some used ones from a member. You can swap back and forth for the winter. Even upgrading the brake lines, pads and fluid will probably not get you much from your single pistons. There are some after market brake kits for the V6 that will help a lot, but if you think he Brembos are expensive you probably won't like this option either.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:03 AM   #13
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The 1LE package would be great for this.

Like LSCamaro said, you will need brakes. Spend some time in the classified section and see if you can pick up some used ones from a member. You can swap back and forth for the winter. Even upgrading the brake lines, pads and fluid will probably not get you much from your single pistons. There are some after market brake kits for the V6 that will help a lot, but if you think he Brembos are expensive you probably won't like this option either.
This is what I was going to suggest. Swap them out in the winter if you want but the brembos are completely worth it if road course racing is your goal. Members will sometimes sell them for good deals so all you have to do is keep a look out. If all else fails, you could also sell your winter setup and get a set of winter tires on stock RS wheels. I saw someone selling a setup like that in the classifieds. That way you can run brembos all the time
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:14 AM   #14
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Would I have to do the full set, or just the fronts? How much effort is it to swap to the brembo's if I'm going to be swapping back and forth twice a year.

The real problem here is fade right? On the first stop, the V6 brakes will haul down a Camaro in almost the same distance as the brembo's. Only a couple of feet difference from 60. It's the 7th, and 8th stops that are a problem. That's where I was hoping the cooling ducts would help a lot. A stead supply of air over the rotors would push a lot of heat out of the entire system.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Would I have to do the full set, or just the fronts? How much effort is it to swap to the brembo's if I'm going to be swapping back and forth twice a year.

The real problem here is fade right? On the first stop, the V6 brakes will haul down a Camaro in almost the same distance as the brembo's. Only a couple of feet difference from 60. It's the 7th, and 8th stops that are a problem. That's where I was hoping the cooling ducts would help a lot. A stead supply of air over the rotors would push a lot of heat out of the entire system.
Cooling ducts and new lines will help with the fade, but they are single pistons on small rotors. The heat will increase exponentially because you 1) don't have enough surface area for dispersion and transfer from the disks, and the single piston will grip less as the disk heats, leading to more friction. There was a guy on here a few years ago that did the ducts, pad, and line replacement and still had heat and fade issues. He finally went to Brembos and was kicking butt on the road course.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:39 AM   #16
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Cooling ducts and new lines will help with the fade, but they are single pistons on small rotors. The heat will increase exponentially because you 1) don't have enough surface area for dispersion and transfer from the disks, and the single piston will grip less as the disk heats, leading to more friction. There was a guy on here a few years ago that did the ducts, pad, and line replacement and still had heat and fade issues. He finally went to Brembos and was kicking butt on the road course.
Ok fair enough. Can't blame me for asking, right?

Do the brembo's bolt onto my existing hubs? Or would they have to be swapped back and forth as well?

--Steve
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:04 AM   #17
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Ok fair enough. Can't blame me for asking, right?

Do the brembo's bolt onto my existing hubs? Or would they have to be swapped back and forth as well?

--Steve
Nope, the only way to find out is to ask!

I haven't made this change, so I'll defer to someone who has for the details.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #18
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Same hubs. I base this on the installation instructions for the ZL1 brake upgrade kits for the V6 (22989385 & 22960684). New hubs are not in the BOM and there are no instructions included for swapping the hubs.

Get the Brembos. I am just waiting for a few final parts before I upgrade my 2LT to the Brembos. I know a guy who has a set for sale. PM me.

I have been told you must swap the fronts and rears as the brake system (ABS, etc.) is designed for a "balanced" set. I am also told you must have the same type of brakes lines on the front and rear (i.e. do not put stainless on the front and leave rubber on the back). While you are doing this, upgrade to DOT4 fluid for track use or steep hill driving.

I think you can get away with (certain, probably not stock) 19" wheels (for winter??) as long as you do not buy the stock brake pads with the "Roller Skates". I've been thinking about this as my standard set to obtain a taller sidewall anyway.

On the page describing the 1LE suspension upgrade in the GMPP catalog they make note that the 1LE suspension kit is designed for a square wheel setup. They do not come right out and say you must have a square setup though.

Hopefully Justice Pete will continue his comments in this thread and enlighten us. Note: Pete does have posts on Camaro5 where he describes much of these items in great detail (mostly from the SS perspective). I'm planning on his daily driver or pace car package.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:45 AM   #19
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Same hubs. I base this on the installation instructions for the ZL1 brake upgrade kits for the V6. New hubs are not in the BOM and there are not instructions included for swapping the hubs.

Get the Brembos. I am just waiting for a few final parts before I upgrade my 2LT to the Brembos.

Also I think you can get away with 19" wheels (for winter) as long as you do not buy the brake pads with the "Roller Skates".
If you're referring to the stock 19" wheels, I believe only the front fit with brembos and the rears won't.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #20
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If you're referring to the stock 19" wheels, I believe only the front fit with brembos and the rears won't.
Not referring to Stock 19" wheels. I was referring to TSW Nurburgrings.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:55 AM   #21
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Oh well in that case, 18s will fit without roller skates as well
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:58 AM   #22
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Oh well in that case, 18s will fit without roller skates as well
Wow! I need to see a picture of that setup.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #23
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I agree with the others that the Factory SS calipers are a minimum requirement for road racing. You can even fit 18" wheels over them as long as the wheel face and offsets are right.

Upgrading your brakes would also open the door to using the FE4 style suspension as you will have clearance issues with your current rear brakes and FE4 rear bars. Pedders FE4 rear bar is the only one that will work with the V6 brakes currently AFAIK..

I'd say concentrate on the brakes for now and once that is complete then look into Subframe bushings, Upper control arm bushings, Trailing and toe rod bushings (or new arms all together) and a good set of FE4 sways. Pedders and Pfadt would be my top choices for these parts.

We use and install all of the parts we sell, so we know what works and can set you up with a package to meet your goals and budget. Feel free to call, PM or email me anytime with questions or for pricing.

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Old 10-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #24
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Wow! I need to see a picture of that setup.
Look up member padre. He uses them for drag racing but they fit. There are others but that's the one that I can remember off the top of my head.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:13 PM   #25
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So, my winters, I literally just bought from TireRack. They are 17" rims, and brand new good winter tires. All said, blew about $1300 on it. Really don't want to have to sell them at a loss after just 1 year.

So, I'd pretty much have to be swapping brakes for at least a couple of years.
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