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Old 03-25-2014, 12:43 PM   #103
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Well, the Boss sounds fantastic. And from the videos I've seen the Z/28 sounds pretty damn good as well. But if in buying in sound, it's the new Jaguar F-type V8 S. It takes what I love about my car and simply turns the amp to 11.
You miss my point. I am referring to FUTURE sound.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:50 PM   #104
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You miss my point. I am referring to FUTURE sound.

That remains to be seen, I guess. But I suspect sound engineering will continue to part and parcel of future Camaro, Mustang and Challenger development as there enough of us who want our cars to bark.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:57 PM   #105
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That remains to be seen, I guess. But I suspect sound engineering will continue to part and parcel of future Camaro, Mustang and Challenger development as there enough of us who want our cars to bark.
But there is only so much you can do. Listen to the Viper's V-10. It still sounds like the truck engine it started out as in life.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:19 PM   #106
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At the risk of being called a fanboy, this Z/28 just makes me long for the new Alpha platform more. While the number and tech are impressive for the Z/28, I can't help but feel with those tires, better brakes and a lower ride height the current Boss LS wouldn't be far off if not even equal on a track, and that's with 2 litres less 7 displacement and a stick axle over the F1 derived suspension. If I had the coin I'd buy the Z/28, as I can't help but think it would be a blast to own and a future collector piece. But I think the current Camaro is as poorly defined by its weight as the Mustang has been by the solid axle. It really is time to move on.
Oh my! How you've changed. I used to like to read your comments.

Did you even read Andy P's comments??? Or see the track times??? The Z/28 was 1/2 a second off the GT3 which is 600 LBS less, and almost twice as costly. And you're talking about a last gen 10 year old chassis (which was pedestrian to begin with), that uses a straight axle as a comparable (if, if if, etc,). You've lost a lot of credibility here.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:30 PM   #107
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Oh my! How you've changed. I used to like to read your comments.

Did you even read Andy P's comments??? Or see the track times??? The Z/28 was 1/2 a second off the GT3 which is 600 LBS less, and almost twice as costly. And you're talking about a last gen 10 year old chassis (which was pedestrian to begin with), that uses a straight axle as a comparable (if, if if, etc,). You've lost a lot of credibility here.
I think you are missing my point. I'm not dissing the car. This car's an impressive monster, no doubt. But when I read what it can do, and how it got there I simply long for the new lighter chassis that much more. Had the ZL1 come out first, let's say, don't you think Ford could have gone to this extreme on the Boss to "win" the ponycar track day war? Of course, but it still would have a stick axle, and that and the Camaro's weight simply have been holding these cars back from true greatness. Imagine all the new Z/28 is, but on the new platform? I suspect they could actually do less and deliver more performance for less money beginning with a better chassis platform, don't you think? Wouldn't you want that car? I know I would.

Anyway, sorry to hear that my credibility is in question with you, but I'll survive the loss of a fan I hope, and redeem myself in the future when Ford and Chevy bring us truly world class cars. I love showing the asian and europeans what we can do in North America, and now we are finally getting to a point where we can do so, no excuse.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:55 PM   #108
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I think you are missing my point. I'm not dissing the car. This car's an impressive monster, no doubt. But when I read what it can do, and how it got there I simply long for the new lighter chassis that much more. Had the ZL1 come out first, let's say, don't you think Ford could have gone to this extreme on the Boss to "win" the ponycar track day war? Of course, but it still would have a stick axle, and that and the Camaro's weight simply have been holding these cars back from true greatness. Imagine all the new Z/28 is, but on the new platform? I suspect they could actually do less and deliver more performance for less money beginning with a better chassis platform, don't you think? Wouldn't you want that car? I know I would.

Anyway, sorry to hear that my credibility is in question with you, but I'll survive the loss of a fan I hope, and redeem myself in the future when Ford and Chevy bring us truly world class cars. I love showing the asian and europeans what we can do in North America, and now we are finally getting to a point where we can do so, no excuse.
You made two very different arguments in your first post. First new cars will (usually) always be better. But I'd rather celebrate what they've done with such a large platform. It is quite amazing how it compares with cars costing sooooo much more.
Second the comments on the aging Boss will just not hold water. Why?, due to its flexible chassis (by comparison). The Camaro is BIG no doubt, however that mass does have one positive side effect...rigidity. This has helped a BIG car push past it's size to the possibilities we're now witnessing. When have you ever heard of 3,800 lb car described as having finesse? Gotta be impressed!
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:14 PM   #109
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No one accuses the GT-R of being svelte yet, in some folks' minds, it WAS the "value for money" car on a track. That reference point has shifted...

GT3? 911 Turbo S? Pobst's personal BOSS which, contrary to some, IS tweaked? It's now out there for all to see...with Pobst and others @ the wheel... A bitter pill to swallow.

Moving forward, GM has provided THEIR new benchmark for under-$80K cars which, as we'll shortly see, a C7 Z06-Z07 will NOT satisfy, price-wise. So Ford is on notice that their super-duper S550 better pass muster...because the Alpha-ZEE will...

No one should expect our Gen-6 variant to be anything less, performance-wise. And it won't be...
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:22 PM   #110
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new review & awsome video to add bro


2014 Chevy Camaro Z/28 Track Test - Thrash Metal
It’s Camaro war as we compare the 2014 Chevy Camaro Z/28 to one of the best pro touring second-gens in the world.


Read more: http://www.superchevy.com/features/c...#ixzz2x12b3Twl
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:40 PM   #111
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You made two very different arguments in your first post. First new cars will (usually) always be better. But I'd rather celebrate what they've done with such a large platform. It is quite amazing how it compares with cars costing sooooo much more.
Second the comments on the aging Boss will just not hold water. Why?, due to its flexible chassis (by comparison). The Camaro is BIG no doubt, however that mass does have one positive side effect...rigidity. This has helped a BIG car push past it's size to the possibilities we're now witnessing. When have you ever heard of 3,800 lb car described as having finesse? Gotta be impressed!
I don't believe they arguments are conflicting. I think the Mustang with it's weight advantage could be made to run with the new Z/28, but why bother? Also how is the Boss a more "flexible" chassis? I'm not arguing here, just never read anything that says the Camaro has a more rigid chassis. And I too am amazed at the new z/28, and what it can run against, but that's not my point. My point is, if GM can make such a behemoth run against such cars, imagine what they can do with the new chassis. And to extend that line of thinking for me, why would I spend $75 large on this car (more here in Canada) for anything but a quick track buzz only to have the next car do as much with (and for) less?

Sometimes it feels like you can't question GM decisions on anything here, without being labelled the enemy. I've owned GM cars before, and I am a car lover, pure and simple. If I was going to buy a Camaro now, and didn't already have my Boss which filled my needs when I bought it, I'd been torn between a ZL1 and the 1LE. The 1LE seems more suited to my desires, but the ZL1 seems the better car all around.

As much as I, like many here, probably would have waited for the Zed, I can say all that wait did is convince me to wait more and check out the next offerings by Ford and GM. To both their credit though, the Porsche I was considering is now well off the table. Now if only Chrysler could bring something to the table.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:40 PM   #112
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No one accuses the GT-R of being svelte yet, in some folks' minds, it WAS the "value for money" car on a track. That reference point has shifted...

GT3? 911 Turbo S? Pobst's personal BOSS which, contrary to some, IS tweaked? It's now out there for all to see...with Pobst and others @ the wheel... A bitter pill to swallow.

Moving forward, GM has provided THEIR new benchmark for under-$80K cars which, as we'll shortly see, a C7 Z06-Z07 will NOT satisfy, price-wise. So Ford is on notice that their super-duper S550 better pass muster...because the Alpha-ZEE will...

No one should expect our Gen-6 variant to be anything less, performance-wise. And it won't be...
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:41 PM   #113
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But there is only so much you can do. Listen to the Viper's V-10. It still sounds like the truck engine it started out as in life.
Too true that.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:16 PM   #114
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I don't believe they arguments are conflicting. I think the Mustang with it's weight advantage could be made to run with the new Z/28, but why bother? Also how is the Boss a more "flexible" chassis? I'm not arguing here, just never read anything that says the Camaro has a more rigid chassis. And I too am amazed at the new z/28, and what it can run against, but that's not my point. My point is, if GM can make such a behemoth run against such cars, imagine what they can do with the new chassis. And to extend that line of thinking for me, why would I spend $75 large on this car (more here in Canada) for anything but a quick track buzz only to have the next car do as much with (and for) less?

Sometimes it feels like you can't question GM decisions on anything here, without being labelled the enemy. I've owned GM cars before, and I am a car lover, pure and simple. If I was going to buy a Camaro now, and didn't already have my Boss which filled my needs when I bought it, I'd been torn between a ZL1 and the 1LE. The 1LE seems more suited to my desires, but the ZL1 seems the better car all around.

As much as I, like many here, probably would have waited for the Zed, I can say all that wait did is convince me to wait more and check out the next offerings by Ford and GM. To both their credit though, the Porsche I was considering is now well off the table. Now if only Chrysler could bring something to the table.
The firmness of the Camaro chassis (making the Camaro weigh more) and the comparative flex in the Mustang has been mentioned in numerous reviews through the years. But I'll move on to end on an area we agree about. The 1LE is looking like the Camaro for me as well (with some Z/28 bits added). I'll be smart and wait a little longer for a last minute 2015...in case the 2016 is too awesome.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:17 PM   #115
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I think the Mustang with it's weight advantage could be made to run with the new Z/28, but why bother?
They have/did...it's called the BOSS 302-R, and it's MORE expen$ive than the street-legal/warrantied/VIN'd Z/28, a fact that NO ONE in Dearborn-land wants to admit to, or even talk about...

The two cars turn roughly equal times @ Barber...a stripped light weight RACE car with Continental Tire Grand Sport Compound tires vs. a heavy weight STREET-LEGAL car.

Let's hope the S550 has a LOT more sauce in it's tank...and a platform to adequately use it...
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:22 PM   #116
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They have/did...it's called the BOSS 302-R, and it's MORE expen$ive than the street-legal/warrantied/VIN'd Z/28, a fact that NO ONE in Dearborn-land wants to admit to, or even talk about...

The two cars turn roughly equal times @ Barber...a stripped light weight RACE car with Continental Tire Grand Sport Compound tires vs. a heavy weight STREET-LEGAL car.

Let's hope the S550 has a LOT more sauce in it's tank...and a platform to adequately use it...
Are the Boss 302 R tires racing slicks?
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:54 PM   #117
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They have/did...it's called the BOSS 302-R, and it's MORE expen$ive than the street-legal/warrantied/VIN'd Z/28, a fact that NO ONE in Dearborn-land wants to admit to, or even talk about...

The two cars turn roughly equal times @ Barber...a stripped light weight RACE car with Continental Tire Grand Sport Compound tires vs. a heavy weight STREET-LEGAL car.

Let's hope the S550 has a LOT more sauce in it's tank...and a platform to adequately use it...
That and the "S" came out along with the Boss in 2011 as 2012 models, and they are Ford Racing Part Number turn-key race cars, so not comparable IMHO. And certainly not what I'm looking for.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:55 PM   #118
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Also, it should be note that the first two S550 Mustangs (2015+ Chassis) have been been delivered to Ford Racing. So I suspect the 302R and S replacements won't be available till next year. Should give the z/28 plenty of time to repeat the season opening victory.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:18 PM   #119
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That and the "S" came out along with the Boss in 2011 as 2012 models, and they are Ford Racing Part Number turn-key race cars, so not comparable IMHO. And certainly not what I'm looking for.
Without Prejudice

With all its available options, a 302-R...a 2014 race-only 302-R is $90-some THOUSAND, and weighs about 3300 lb.

A street-legal warrantied Z/28 is $76-and -change fully optioned, and weighs 38-and-change.

BOTH TURN SIMILARLY-TIMED LAPS @ BARBER

Where is the price-value-performance equation out of whack?!

Ford wants to upcharge you $40Gs over a BOSS LS and OVER $50Gs above a Base BOSS to meet YOUR stated wish, only they refuse to give you a VIN, a warranty...or even a KISS...

And people from the Ford Forums think GM/CHEV are THIEVES, for pricing the Z/28 @ $75,000 Base?!

"certainly not what I'm looking for" ...thank GOD you still have your faculties intact!
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