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Old 11-06-2013, 10:22 AM   #51
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^That and realize that there are a lot of vettes on the road. Once the "new model" magic potion wears off, no one will care about the first year vette. Do you hear any reverence or buzz talk about an '84 vette, or a '97 or an '05? All of these first year vettes have slipped into the valley of used car obscurity. Don't get me wrong, as corvettes are amazing. Its just the fact that the corvette is no longer the lone brainchild in terms of performance. The corvette has plenty of competition from domestic and foreign makes; Some of those cars can at least perform as well as the corvette and possibly hold a better resale value. Its just the cold hard facts of the resale market.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:22 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbls1 View Post
...Once the "new model" magic potion wears off, no one will care about the first year vette. Do you hear any reverence or buzz talk about an '84 vette, or a '97 or an '05? All of these first year vettes have slipped into the valley of used car obscurity...
I agree with this analysis, too. However, special high-end model Vettes like the Z06, ZR1 will hold their value relative to the base model. This can be said of the Camaro with the ZL1 and Z/28. This makes your point: buy the special model ZL1 as opposed to the base model Vette.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:20 PM   #53
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I agree with this analysis, too. However, special high-end model Vettes like the Z06, ZR1 will hold their value relative to the base model. This can be said of the Camaro with the ZL1 and Z/28. This makes your point: buy the special model ZL1 as opposed to the base model Vette.
Very true. Take a look at the '01- '04 z06's...especially '01 and '02. Their values suck, despite being great cars. They are holding their curret prices better though; a few years ago some of them were in the low 20's.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:40 PM   #54
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The problem with the 04 ZO6 was Chevy gave the newly designed, base 2005 model C6 even more horsepower than it had.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #55
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There will always be a ton of used ZL1s on the maket. There are more than 10,000 ZL1s in existence now. I wish they did it more like Ford and capped production at 4500-5000 a year. The GT500 should have better resale than the ZL1 because of this.
A GT500 with all the performance options lists for several thousand more than a ZL1. Most performance oriented Mustang buyers buy a 420HP Mustang GT with only a small number dropping the big bucks for a GT500. But here on Camaro5 it looks to me like every Camaro fan who can even marginally afford it buys a ZL1 instead of a 426HP SS (or sells or trades in their gen5 Camaro SS to move up to a ZL1). There are quite a few ZL1 buyers taking out big loans with big monthly payments in order to get a ZL1 over an SS. From what I see very few Mustang buyers do that (to get a GT500 over a GT).

(I'm basing this observation on what I see and read, as I own two Mustang Cobras, a GT500 and my '13 ZL1 and I participate on one Mustang forum and this Camaro forum.)
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #56
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by littlecammi View Post
A GT500 with all the performance options lists for several thousand more than a ZL1. Most performance oriented Mustang buyers buy a 420HP Mustang GT with only a small number dropping the big bucks for a GT500. But here on Camaro5 it looks to me like every Camaro fan who can even marginally afford it buys a ZL1 instead of a 426HP SS (or sells or trades in their gen5 Camaro SS to move up to a ZL1). There are quite a few ZL1 buyers taking out big loans with big monthly payments in order to get a ZL1 over an SS. From what I see very few Mustang buyers do that (to get a GT500 over a GT).

(I'm basing this observation on what I see and read, as I own two Mustang Cobras, a GT500 and my '13 ZL1 and I participate on one Mustang forum and this Camaro forum.)
Sounds like you are saying mustang buyers are a more responsible and maybe even smarter group of people. If someone is looking for more performance than the 5.0 offers and it is within their means they opt for the 500. But you don't believe this is the case over at Chevy?

First of all, they aren't just giving these cars away. If you make considerably less per year than this car costs and have less than stellar, they are taking you behind the dealership and over the fence to look at their special of the day and you will have to write Camaro on the side of it.

Personally I think there are more ZL1's sold because it is just a more practical high performance car, whereas the Shelby is less forgiving. Every youtube video and magazine publication says so. So I think that has more to do with why so many ZL1s are on the road. I could have had either and when I chose the Chevy it was still a carefully calculated purchase. I wanted a SS and when the ZL1 came out I had to wait a year and make the adjustments financially.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:17 PM   #58
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Sounds like you are saying mustang buyers are a more responsible and maybe even smarter group of people. I wanted an SS and when the ZL1 came out I had to wait a year and make the adjustments financially.
I'm not saying smarter. But I don't see any GT500 threads about "how expensive monthly payments are" like I have seen here about the ZL1. Taking everything I see and read into account, it seems to me that more Mustang fans are okay purchasing GTs instead of GT500s while any Camaro buyer who can find a financial way to do so has to have a ZL1 over an SS. Even if they have to wait a year and make some financial adjustments.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:31 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by littlecammi View Post
I'm not saying smarter. But I don't see any GT500 threads about "how expensive monthly payments are" like I have seen here about the ZL1. Taking everything I see and read into account, it seems to me that more Mustang fans are okay purchasing GTs instead of GT500s while any Camaro buyer who can find a financial way to do so has to have a ZL1 over an SS. Even if they have to wait a year and make some financial adjustments.
Also, I may be wrong but I think the GT-500 is more expensive fully optioned out. Closer to 70k I believe, whereas the base does not come as "track ready" right out of the box as the ZL1. If you are intending to spend the money on modding your new SS then going for the ZL1 and spending the money now rather than later could be a better idea. Also the Boss 302 is a more capable track car for the money than the GT-500 the years they made it, so the GT-500 also had that to contend with on the sales floor. The 1LE is now here as a decent alternative to the ZL1 which was not available in 2012.

And let's not forget that within those "how much is your ZL1 payment" posts, there are plenty who chime in to say they paid cash. I am one of them and therefore the extra year was well worth the wait financially.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:34 PM   #60
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LOL!!! Crazy thread..Why is the sky blue? What came first? The chicken or the egg? Stupid question IMO. Cheap plastic? Uh "fake suede"? Get over it. This car is freaking AWESOME!!! I've owned the 911, Corvette, BMW..Etc. For 57k you can't touch this car with anything comparable. GT500? HAHA trolls. Not in the same universe. Shelby? Ten grand more and handles like doo doo?. I for one will be the last to complain about material. I dropped an additional 3500.00 for headers, CAI and make another 119hp. Dyno numbers! and I'm still looking for that Shelby..Here Shelby.... Heeeree Shelby.... just as I thought Another opinion preceded by a stupid question. GIGO
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #61
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I may be wrong but I think the GT-500 is more expensive fully optioned out. Closer to 70k I believe, whereas the base does not come as "track ready" right out of the box as the ZL1.
As noted in the opening sentence in my first post above in this thread:
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A GT500 with all the performance options lists for several thousand more than a ZL1.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:41 PM   #62
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I had no idea their lending arm, GM Financial, was going down this slippery slope. You'd think they would learn from the past, but apparently not.

This snippet from the article linked above says it all:

"GMF has the riskiest lending portfolio of any major car company: 96 percent of its customers have credit scores below 660. GM’s lending habits parallel those in the housing market leading up to the 2008 crash…GM finished the year with 8.5 percent of loans in delinquency, the highest rate since 2010 and larger than the delinquency rates at Ford, Toyota, and Honda combined"

It may move cars off the lots today, but doesn't bode well for the future.
Thank you for highlighting the key points. Most don't really know about this. I hated to bring it to their attention, but that was why I first stated,,,, "not intending to throw stones here" because many on this board may be (or not at all) part of the <660. But I felt it certainly could explain the plethora of cars on the market and thusly the new "cash for clunkers"… based on "free credit"...
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by cosmoZL1;7162929[B
]LOL!!! Crazy thread..Why is the sky blue? What came first? The chicken or the egg? Stupid question IMO. Cheap plastic? Uh "fake suede"? Get over it. This car is freaking AWESOME!!! I've owned the 911, Corvette, BMW..Etc. For 57k you can't touch this car with anything comparable. GT500? HAHA trolls[/B]. Not in the same universe. Shelby? Ten grand more and handles like doo doo?. I for one will be the last to complain about material. I dropped an additional 3500.00 for headers, CAI and make another 119hp. Dyno numbers! and I'm still looking for that Shelby..Here Shelby.... Heeeree Shelby.... just as I thought Another opinion preceded by a stupid question. GIGO
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:52 PM   #64
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If the ZL1 is your only car, many have found that with creative financing they just can't afford it and move on! Others just want to own one and then go for the next best thing. As for the low mileage ZL1's!!! Don't know how you can let it sit!
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:11 PM   #65
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Agree with above statements and for gods sake go price out a decked out anything decent these days. Hell, a diesel decked out pick up is more than my ZL and the decked out Honda Ridgeline I traded in wasn't a bunch less. I've had my car two weeks and turned just over 1,200 miles or 2,000kms last night. Low mileage garage queens don't interest me and I may mileage mine out even with the extended 5 year warranty. But yes your undriven ZL1 in the garage is very pretty, maybe your scared to drive it like it was meant to be driven, just sayin'.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:56 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by littlecammi View Post
I'm not saying smarter. But I don't see any GT500 threads about "how expensive monthly payments are" like I have seen here about the ZL1. Taking everything I see and read into account, it seems to me that more Mustang fans are okay purchasing GTs instead of GT500s while any Camaro buyer who can find a financial way to do so has to have a ZL1 over an SS. Even if they have to wait a year and make some financial adjustments.
Both brands are having this issue. My guess is many buyers get financially over their head but come to their senses a few months after the initial purchase excitement wears off.

Here is SVT thread:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...-14-gt500.html
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:29 AM   #67
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Hey guys. I am a noobee to the Camaro5 forum and the ZL1. I currently drive a Lexus LS460 and have been craving something more raw, powerful, inspiring, and smile creating. I have been looking into the ZL1 and want to buy one. My concern is when I look online locally there are plenty of used 2013 and 2012s on the market. It made me concerned because I figured if someone bought one of these special cars they would not let it go very soon or easily. I was wondering if there was a big common issue with the ZL1s? I have done a little research and the cars seem pretty solid to me. Any ideas as to why this may be? I found a beautiful white 2013 convertible for a great deal but held off when I saw so many on the market. I am a big Lexus guy so I like cars that are reliable and die hard. Not expecting LS460 reliability, but am I missing something??

Thanks for your input
I think you'll be MORE than satisfied with the Camaro's reliability is lexus is your benchmark.

I would guess that a large part of why ZL1s are being let go so quick is the buyer...most people who have enough cash to plop down on a car that expensive is probably also the kind of person who jumps from car to car to get his/her kicks. I sold mine about a month ago....traded in on a Camaro SS/1LE. My reason was that "other" things took priority and to make my life easier, I wanted reduced payments. I loved the car, and it had zero problems...

There are no major issues with the car in general that would incline people to get rid of it. It's a solid, fast, comfortable, awe-inspiring automobile. It could be that some people didn't know what they were getting into, besides the excitement that surrounded it....and all the power/handling/performance wasn't their cup of tea. It's certainly not a luxury car.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:47 AM   #68
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I always find that the people that actually have one or had one? Are not the ones so worried about material. If you are so worried about material? Then why even look here? Here is the biggest fact: People that can afford to worry about "cheap plastic" are driving the Merc, Porshe, etc.. The one thing I hate is someone picking apart the car that was offered to the American public (primary market) for the best bang for your buck ever offered from an American manufacturer. 580HP? Bullet proof Trans? World class suspension? Brakes? Geez, kills me. Uh wait, it's got rubber tires, could have put glass in the windows, what? Carbon fiber? six piston calipers? What a waste. YEAH, Sure... Oh its too heavy, It can't beat a car that costs tens of thousands more. I love all these world class designers on this site telling us all how bad this car sucks. Guess we are lucky they didn't design the ZL1. To all the C5 members that get tired of the whiners? Let them know..Pitiful
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:57 PM   #69
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...it's all about getting off,...at times at whatever cost. If you don't feel that way after awhile..., and the thrill is gone...then it's time to move onto the next thrill. Just sayin'. I still think the ZL1 is the best bang for the buck Camaro ever built.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:00 PM   #70
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:12 PM   #71
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...agreed on the last post, it's a big brass ring to grab and enjoy, at times there are many other wordly influences that brings about change and causes one to make tough decisions.., and the decision by the majority on selling I surmise with a reasonable degree of cetainty, being an owner and lifetime Camaro enthusiast, has nothing to do with the car itself...just life gets in the way. The car is all that, it is stout, it is sound, and it's the top 'o the line Camaro for now. It beats the snot out of imports costing tens of thousands more in the performance catagory. It's a legend in it's own time. I like to see a comparision, rather than a suspect singular observation of one particular model, of others in its class that are for sale. Oh so many ZL1's for sale, I bet its relative across the board.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:30 PM   #72
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I always find that the people that actually have one or had one? Are not the ones so worried about material. If you are so worried about material? Then why even look here? Here is the biggest fact: People that can afford to worry about "cheap plastic" are driving the Merc, Porshe, etc.. The one thing I hate is someone picking apart the car that was offered to the American public (primary market) for the best bang for your buck ever offered from an American manufacturer. 580HP? Bullet proof Trans? World class suspension? Brakes? Geez, kills me. Uh wait, it's got rubber tires, could have put glass in the windows, what? Carbon fiber? six piston calipers? What a waste. YEAH, Sure... Oh its too heavy, It can't beat a car that costs tens of thousands more. I love all these world class designers on this site telling us all how bad this car sucks. Guess we are lucky they didn't design the ZL1. To all the C5 members that get tired of the whiners? Let them know..Pitiful



X2, Well said!

No one whom has ever been in my car on a hard "reliable" run ever said poor interior. They a amazed 55k stock car can run that well with some of the best technology on the market at any price point. Buying a stock used in the mid 40s looks like a easy purchase for anyone looking for a monster performer that is reliable! Another 3k in mods and its a different animal again. Great car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:46 PM   #73
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Correct me if I'm wrong witch happens a lot. In 2012 there were under 1900 zl1's made and now they discontinued the victory red and the clear coated carbon fiber hood insert. To me that means in years down the road my zl1 should be more collectable than others.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:46 AM   #74
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Traded my ZL1, so I'm in that crowd. '12 models lacked a few things for me, so I let it go. I'll be back in a ZL1 it'll just be a newer model year after I see the 6th Gen.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:19 AM   #75
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I've been shopping ZL1's pretty hard nationwide watching prices very closely and from what dealers are saying, the majority of folks are jumping to the C7. That being said there is a wide range of prices out there from the one or two still new 2012 ZL1's to the very lightly used 2013's. I've seen as low as $45k loaded minus NAV for a 2012 and up to $60K for a 2013 with 5k miles. My point is that the ZL1 is not being subjected to market norms...yet. I equate it to my 2008 Z06 which I bought in 2011 for $52. The next year the price average dropped to the mid $40's and now you can one for pretty cheap.. I think ZL1 will hold its collector value better rather than dropping across the entire model. Hopefully that makes sense.

In other words regardless of how many there are out there, they aren't being subjected to market mood and the prices are staying pretty high. I think it will stay that way for a while regardless of how many or why people get rid of them.
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