Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Hines Performance (HPE)
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Dragstrip and Launch Techniques Discussion

Dragstrip and Launch Techniques Discussion 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, launch discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-04-2013, 06:05 PM   #1
blufin

 
blufin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS CGM M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WPB, Florida
Posts: 1,340
Trouble switching from street tires to DR's

After drag racing on street tires for over 4 years, I've gotten pretty good at launching on them. After the Pirelli's wore out, I decided to switch to an 18' vette wheel with Mickey's on them. The 2 times I've had them at the strip have been horrendous. My best 60' on street tires was in the 1.6's, and with the DR's, the best has been a 1.8. The last outing a few days ago was nothing but 2.0's.

I've been trying to launch the same way I was launching on street tires; slipping the clutch. The car feels like it falls on it's face. It feels like as soon as I start moving, the engine cuts power. All nannies are off. I feel a brief stutter then the power comes on. Gonna have to learn a whole new way to launch. Gotta be a lot more aggressive I guess.

Even the burnout isn't easy. The car wants to stall. I know, more throttle. Well when I do that, it doesn't want to go above 4k rpm's. All nannies are off.

This is gonna take a lot of seat time to re-learn how to launch. I want my street tires back!
__________________
12.618 @ 110.75 Bone Stock 1/4 mile
8.165 @ 86.52 Bone Stock 1/8 mile
11.189 @ 124.44 on a 1.73 60' TVS2300 3.4 pulley, JRE tuned, Kooks LT headers and HF cats, MBRP catback exhaust, CAI intake, ADM scoop. Stock wheels/tires
blufin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 06:34 PM   #2
HRD_WRK
HARD WORKING PATRIOT
 
HRD_WRK's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 CAMARO 2SS RS-AUTO
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: IOWA
Posts: 240
Sorry man-but it'll be worth it once you get adjusted. You've always had killer 60s-never knew how you got by without wheelhop.
I think you're right though-get more agressive sooner. I've taken up Autox also and have had to 'relearn' myself how to launch-but back on street tires when there's no sticky and often sand/debris. I'm learning to accelerate by fast feathering in lieu of mashing-its a fine line-especially with 370s.

You've got a lot of torque with your SC-you'll be squatting harder soon-suspension and alignment will be more important.

Looks like we'll both be hitting the track next spring.

Good luck.
__________________
Long time avid daily reader -thanks to all for your helpful threads!
Bolt ons, Stock Torq Converter - 11.810 & 116.21
Next Mod phase-complete at off season (its begun)-FI(parts in hand).
HRD_WRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #3
xjer22x

 
xjer22x's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 rs/ss black # 10,308
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hoffman estates, il
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by blufin View Post
After drag racing on street tires for over 4 years, I've gotten pretty good at launching on them. After the Pirelli's wore out, I decided to switch to an 18' vette wheel with Mickey's on them. The 2 times I've had them at the strip have been horrendous. My best 60' on street tires was in the 1.6's, and with the DR's, the best has been a 1.8. The last outing a few days ago was nothing but 2.0's.

I've been trying to launch the same way I was launching on street tires; slipping the clutch. The car feels like it falls on it's face. It feels like as soon as I start moving, the engine cuts power. All nannies are off. I feel a brief stutter then the power comes on. Gonna have to learn a whole new way to launch. Gotta be a lot more aggressive I guess.

Even the burnout isn't easy. The car wants to stall. I know, more throttle. Well when I do that, it doesn't want to go above 4k rpm's. All nannies are off.

This is gonna take a lot of seat time to re-learn how to launch. I want my street tires back!

its totally different. everything needs to be amplified with DR's.

Burnout - start in second gear, bring it up to 5500rpm and drop the clutch and keep the rpms up over 5000rpm. Its the only way to properly heat them up. I would even look into a line lock if you dont have it already. Water will be your friend to get the burnout started.

On the launch, i was bogging way too much... so i started launching @ over 5000rpm and feathering the clutch at that RPM. Worked out way better.

it will take a little bit of practice but will be well worth it once you get the hang of it.

Last edited by xjer22x; 11-05-2013 at 09:57 PM.
xjer22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 08:32 PM   #4
Bad70supreme


 
Bad70supreme's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 aqua blue SS/RS M6
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: plainfield, IL
Posts: 2,616
I ran slower on DRs as well! The issue I had now with a sticky tire was a heavy car and under geared! All the tire did was amplify the issue. It's worse with stick car, no stall to keep the engine in the power band. I hope you have axles and a good clutch to take the abuse you need to give it. That's why I went th400, less issues to deal with and in the long run more reliable.
__________________
217/228 .565 cam, th400 swap with 3600 stall, headers, GPI tune, VR intake, Bo white TB
11.63@ 118.6
11.66@ 119.5
Bad70supreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 07:13 AM   #5
etmx183

 
etmx183's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2LT RS, 04 Turbo Busa
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 1,107
I had the same problem with my Turbo Street bike when I switched tires. I used higher tire pressure up to the point of spinning. Than I would slowly reduce pressure to the fine point of little spin with good launch and great 60'. A good launch has a little spin to it is what I've learned. Good Luck, it will be worth the headache when you get it all dialed it.
__________________
CAI intake, RX catch can, Nitrous Outlet Plate system,RX Ported Throttle body, APEX air scoop & washer relocation kit,, BMR diff bushings, cradle bushings, driveshaft loop and tunnel brace, trailing arms, toe arms, Hurst Roll control, Flex-a-lite transmission cooler, SOLO HFCs, FTI 3200 stall converter, JacFab ported intake manifold and upper intake isolator, Solo cat back Mach X system, SS diff 3.91 gears, Weld RT-S 17x10 & 17x5 W/M&H DRs and skinnies
TUNING BY: HP Tuners /MATT@FSP
( 1.63 60' / 12.03@109.22 11/14/2014 )
Refusing to grow older, I just go faster.
etmx183 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #6
blufin

 
blufin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS CGM M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WPB, Florida
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad70supreme View Post
I ran slower on DRs as well! The issue I had now with a sticky tire was a heavy car and under geared! All the tire did was amplify the issue. It's worse with stick car, no stall to keep the engine in the power band. I hope you have axles and a good clutch to take the abuse you need to give it. That's why I went th400, less issues to deal with and in the long run more reliable.
I'm running a twin carbon street slayer but don't have axles yet. I think I may wait till I "need" them, ie, break the stock ones.
__________________
12.618 @ 110.75 Bone Stock 1/4 mile
8.165 @ 86.52 Bone Stock 1/8 mile
11.189 @ 124.44 on a 1.73 60' TVS2300 3.4 pulley, JRE tuned, Kooks LT headers and HF cats, MBRP catback exhaust, CAI intake, ADM scoop. Stock wheels/tires
blufin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #7
dekan513
chevy pride
 
dekan513's Avatar
 
Drives: 2ss/rs
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: pikeville ky
Posts: 2,147
man i finally made the switch like a month ago and as of probably 8 races now with them i suck . my problem seems to be either i try to do a easy launch and they bog me down really bad or when i get confident i spin. but im learning u need a ton of heat to make them hook. i dont think ive been doing a good enuff burn out
__________________

check out ky speeds fb page https://www.facebook.com/kyspeed
dekan513 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 10:26 AM   #8
xjer22x

 
xjer22x's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 rs/ss black # 10,308
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hoffman estates, il
Posts: 914
The burnout is a big part. Don't be afraid to out on a good smoke show.

sent from my galaxy s3. that would explain the errors.
xjer22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 10:31 AM   #9
Pro Stock John
Writer
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS / 1951 Mercury
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,973
Takes a while to change up the burnout and staging routine that's for sure.
__________________
PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY
Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | Headers, Cats | 555R DR | CAI | UDP | Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | +NT05R 18s | + Circle D 3200
11.84@113 1.59 | + 3.91s | +Race Star 17x7s
Mods: GPI Tune | Bo's PTB | Kooks LTs | Hooker Maxflows | Circle D 3200 | New Era OTR | RCR AirRam Manifold | Powerbond UDP | 3.91s
Pro Stock John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #10
blufin

 
blufin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS CGM M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WPB, Florida
Posts: 1,340
I'm gonna spend as much time as possible at the track in an effort to get ready for winter. I was hoping for 10's with the current setup, but I may have to stab a cam in it if I fall short.
__________________
12.618 @ 110.75 Bone Stock 1/4 mile
8.165 @ 86.52 Bone Stock 1/8 mile
11.189 @ 124.44 on a 1.73 60' TVS2300 3.4 pulley, JRE tuned, Kooks LT headers and HF cats, MBRP catback exhaust, CAI intake, ADM scoop. Stock wheels/tires
blufin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #11
redirish

 
redirish's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS/RS/M6/IOM/IOM/WHTRALLY
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edison New Jersey
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjer22x View Post
its totally different. everything needs to be amplified with DR's.

Burnout - start in second gear, bring it up to 5500rpm and drop the clutch and keep the rpms up over 5000rpm. Its the only way to properly heat them up. I would even look into a line lock if you dont have it already. Water will be your friend to get the burnout started.

On the launch, i was bogging way too much... so i started launching @ over 5000rpm and feathering the clutch at that RPM. Worked out way better.

it will have a little bit of practive but will be well worth it once you get the hang of it.

I have the similar set up as you and only have a few runs so far! Everything xjer22x is recommending is working for me. I only launched at 3500rpm but will go higher next time. I understand the street slayer works best at higher RPM's Also go around the water and back in. I have a line lock and it works great for the burn out. I also have 4:10's now and that really helps to get her moving off the line.

I'm sure with practice you will be teaching others!
__________________
Vortech V3 Polished Supercharger Kit, Dynatech 1 7/8" Coated Headers, Street Slayer Twin Carbon Clutch,DSS 1000HP Axles, Jannetty 4:10 Rear with Posi Mod,MGW Short Shifter with White Retro Knob, Race Ready Exhaust Cutouts, BMR Trailing Arms, Separate Clutch Reservoir, Tick Clutch Line, Tick Clutch Bleeder, ZL1 Pedal Covers
BUILT BY IDEAL GARAGE TUNED BY JANNETTY RACING 1/8 Mile 8.64@75.28 1/4 Mile 12.94@107.61 BoneStock Best time on DR's 11.60@124MPH
redirish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 04:55 PM   #12
Pro Stock John
Writer
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS / 1951 Mercury
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,973
It's such a compromise hooking stock Pirellis at high horsepower levels, enjoy some decent tractiion and come out higher and on more power. I'm sure you'll drop a tenth maybe a lot more. I've run 325 DR's (1.35) and 28x10.5 slicks (1.38) over the years and I got tired of trying to hook stock tires, went 1.92 on them. No changes went 1.85 on 555R's. Now the 18 NTO5R's have gone 1.66 spinning on marginal track, so I still hope to do much better at some point.
__________________
PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY
Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | Headers, Cats | 555R DR | CAI | UDP | Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | +NT05R 18s | + Circle D 3200
11.84@113 1.59 | + 3.91s | +Race Star 17x7s
Mods: GPI Tune | Bo's PTB | Kooks LTs | Hooker Maxflows | Circle D 3200 | New Era OTR | RCR AirRam Manifold | Powerbond UDP | 3.91s
Pro Stock John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 07:07 PM   #13
Fraxum


 
Fraxum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 TT IOM 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South NJ
Posts: 3,070
Send a message via AIM to Fraxum
Count me in on the cannot launch with DRs club . I also was better on Pirellis (in my last SS) than on NT555Rs on my 1LE, but nothing better than a mid 1.9 for me.

I have tried street launches and at 1,500-4000. The higher up I go I have to murder the clutch more to keep from spinning. Last time I lowered the pressure in my NT555R 305-45-18s to 22 pounds. That helped me get close to my best Pirelli time. I burn out in second bouncing off the rev limiter moving forward. I do get a nice plume of visible smoke.

In my last two runs last night my clutch slipped so much the motor kept revving all though first and second. On the way home it seemed better. Did i fry my clutch with only 4,000 miles on my car?
__________________

The 1LE Inferno build thread
More Seat Time. Thinking the 1LE is a keeper.
Fraxum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:12 PM   #14
xjer22x

 
xjer22x's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 rs/ss black # 10,308
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hoffman estates, il
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Count me in on the cannot launch with DRs club . I also was better on Pirellis (in my last SS) than on NT555Rs on my 1LE, but nothing better than a mid 1.9 for me.

I have tried street launches and at 1,500-4000. The higher up I go I have to murder the clutch more to keep from spinning. Last time I lowered the pressure in my NT555R 305-45-18s to 22 pounds. That helped me get close to my best Pirelli time. I burn out in second bouncing off the rev limiter moving forward. I do get a nice plume of visible smoke.

In my last two runs last night my clutch slipped so much the motor kept revving all though first and second. On the way home it seemed better. Did i fry my clutch with only 4,000 miles on my car?
Nope, your clutch should be OK. What happened is your clutch fluid got hot. Look into a clutch reservoir seperating kit.

And realistically. You need a little more then just a roll out burnout. Ill look for one of my videos

*edit* here is a decent shot of how I warm them up. We suffer from poor track prep.



sent from my galaxy s3. that would explain the errors.

Last edited by xjer22x; 11-07-2013 at 04:42 PM.
xjer22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #15
Sales @ CAI Inc



 
Sales @ CAI Inc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS/RS CAI Inc. CAI, Cam, Tune
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,934
Keep practicing and taking the advice from the guys here who know what they are talking about, you'll get there, street to DR's take some getting used to.
__________________
Call Us: 810.392.9999 (Click Sig Pic for Website)
Sales @ CAI Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 07:42 PM   #16
Fraxum


 
Fraxum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 TT IOM 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South NJ
Posts: 3,070
Send a message via AIM to Fraxum
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjer22x View Post
Nope, your clutch should be OK. What happened is your clutch fluid got hot. Look into a clutch reservoir seperating kit.

And realistically. You need a little more then just a roll out burnout. Ill look for one of my videos

*edit* here is a decent shot of how I warm them up. We suffer from poor track prep.



sent from my galaxy s3. that would explain the errors.
Now that is a burnout! I need to get comfortable braking and pushing on the accelerator with my right foot. I already have the separate reservoir with good fluid. Fluid still looks clean. Car has 4,000 miles.
__________________

The 1LE Inferno build thread
More Seat Time. Thinking the 1LE is a keeper.
Fraxum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 07:49 PM   #17
blufin

 
blufin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS CGM M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WPB, Florida
Posts: 1,340
I have the relocation kit and have not put it on. I just don't see how this would help the problem. At least with the stock brake/clutch resevoir, you have a larger volume to help dissipate heat. The smaller GTO resevoir still gets dirty from the clutch dust, just like the stock setup.

__________________
12.618 @ 110.75 Bone Stock 1/4 mile
8.165 @ 86.52 Bone Stock 1/8 mile
11.189 @ 124.44 on a 1.73 60' TVS2300 3.4 pulley, JRE tuned, Kooks LT headers and HF cats, MBRP catback exhaust, CAI intake, ADM scoop. Stock wheels/tires
blufin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 09:52 PM   #18
xjer22x

 
xjer22x's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 rs/ss black # 10,308
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hoffman estates, il
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by blufin View Post
I have the relocation kit and have not put it on. I just don't see how this would help the problem. At least with the stock brake/clutch resevoir, you have a larger volume to help dissipate heat. The smaller GTO resevoir still gets dirty from the clutch dust, just like the stock setup.


Ill tell you it helped my problem.

Yes there is more of an overflow... but you then are getting a heat source from 5 places vs just 1.

Plus its easier to do a quick fluid change for just the clutch if needed. At the track I usually bring some fluid and a syringe to switch the fluid out.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Now that is a burnout! I need to get comfortable braking and pushing on the accelerator with my right foot. I already have the separate reservoir with good fluid. Fluid still looks clean. Car has 4,000 miles.
Takes some practice. More trips out and you will be a pro.


sent from my galaxy s3. that would explain the errors.
xjer22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 11:57 AM   #19
MANNYS2SS/RS

 
MANNYS2SS/RS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS,LS3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by blufin View Post
I have the relocation kit and have not put it on. I just don't see how this would help the problem. At least with the stock brake/clutch resevoir, you have a larger volume to help dissipate heat. The smaller GTO resevoir still gets dirty from the clutch dust, just like the stock setup.

I agree, I had it on and removed it. I replaced the brake fluid with DOT4, it's easy enough to replace when ever it starts getting dirty.
__________________

LS-3, ProCharger D1SC
665. rwhp /562. rwtq @ 9.3 psi
MANNYS2SS/RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 09:40 AM   #20
Fraxum


 
Fraxum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 TT IOM 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South NJ
Posts: 3,070
Send a message via AIM to Fraxum
Quote:
Originally Posted by blufin View Post
I have the relocation kit and have not put it on. I just don't see how this would help the problem. At least with the stock brake/clutch resevoir, you have a larger volume to help dissipate heat. The smaller GTO resevoir still gets dirty from the clutch dust, just like the stock setup.

I feel the same way. Not entirely convinced of the value of the mod, but it was an easy mod and it couldn't hurt. Perhaps the Tick clutch line would help. But that is a clutch bleed.
__________________

The 1LE Inferno build thread
More Seat Time. Thinking the 1LE is a keeper.
Fraxum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 07:51 PM   #21
Bo White



 
Bo White's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Summit White 1SS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vance Alabama
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by blufin View Post
I have the relocation kit and have not put it on. I just don't see how this would help the problem. At least with the stock brake/clutch resevoir, you have a larger volume to help dissipate heat. The smaller GTO resevoir still gets dirty from the clutch dust, just like the stock setup.

Do the rezzy. If anything you will keep tge clutch crud out if your brakes. My fluid after 20k miles:
Attached Images
  
__________________
Bo White is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.