Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Flowmaster Exhaust
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-19-2008, 03:58 PM   #26
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Here's the full article as on Autoweek.com, it includes more of Lutz words on the subject:

Quote:
Chevrolet Camaro concept
By RICHARD TRUETT, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS


NEW YORK -- General Motors is considering a four-cylinder engine for the new Chevrolet Camaro as a response to rising fuel prices.

Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.

GM has said it plans V8 and V6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed to Automotive News that the V6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.


Low-priced version dropped
In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.

Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.

The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.

Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.

But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.

“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.


“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”


'We are going to be above Mustang'
Lutz said that with the V6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.

Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 (?) model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.

The Mustang V6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.

“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 03:58 PM   #27
AlohaBR

 
AlohaBR's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros...is there anything else?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Great Lake State
Posts: 1,024
Whats wrong with a 4cyl? My first Camaro was a 67 with an inline 6. The 4cyl will have more power than that!
AlohaBR is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:00 PM   #28
smokn'
 
Drives: Banana boat
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The carribeen
Posts: 228
even though i am impressed with the 4 in the redline and gxp, it's against camaro tradition. i'm also kinda upset that gm just pretty much dropped the whole "we will be competitive to mustang prices." i just hope it's not too much. i agree with the majority, this is kinda rediculous.
smokn' is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:01 PM   #29
z28camaro2471
C5 Member #227
 
z28camaro2471's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 793
I just don't want to see any "tuner/ricer" Camaros that sound like lawnmowers.
z28camaro2471 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:01 PM   #30
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,788
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
DerScotsman...that would've helped a bit in the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyforlife View Post
i mean theres nothing wrong with four cylinders but i think it should be for the cobalts. i think that a a v-6 is fast and i have proof. my mom drives a 2002 pontiac grand am gt and it would smoke almost any v-8 car in town. so i dont have a problem with it, its just that change is good but i hate change. i hope ppl see the way i see things.
There's nothing in there about the 4 cyllinder replacing the V6...not the way I read it. But rather, to add the 4 to the lineup.

And all this Cobalt talk...Seriously, come on. The turbo Cobalt will probably still beat the ~260 horse V6 Camaro...so I don't see the point in that argument..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokn' View Post
i'm also kinda upset that gm just pretty much dropped the whole "we will be competitive to mustang prices." i just hope it's not too much.
He didn't completely drop it. He said it will be more, and that's nothing new. If you're thinking thousands more...your insane (and if that's the truth...well, so's GM.) But ~$1000 more for an EXTREMELY superior car. That's not unreasonable to me.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:02 PM   #31
B2E2RUN
Beer Run
 
B2E2RUN's Avatar
 
Drives: 2 little turbos
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 410
You also have to remember the fuel economy standard is headed north....4 banger camaro can help GM offset the 400+hp camaro, not to mention the new ZR1.....
__________________
B2E2RUN is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:02 PM   #32
smokn'
 
Drives: Banana boat
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The carribeen
Posts: 228
who are they trying to appeal to? ricers? i think they need to rethink their target audience!
smokn' is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:12 PM   #33
MattG
Z/28 or Bust!
 
Drives: First Camaro: '69 Z28
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokn' View Post
even though i am impressed with the 4 in the redline and gxp, it's against camaro tradition. i'm also kinda upset that gm just pretty much dropped the whole "we will be competitive to mustang prices." i just hope it's not too much. i agree with the majority, this is kinda rediculous.
Agreed on the pricing. I'm also not a huge fan of them considering the 4-cylinder, but it wouldn't be the first time a 4-cylinder was put in a Camaro.
MattG is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:14 PM   #34
natedog2008
 
Drives: 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 stg.2
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Exclamation Hmm.

Yea this would be good you can definitely have a faster car if you mod out the 4cyl turbo exchange the turbo and put in a larger garret reach 700 hp or more but the only problem with all this is that the camaro is a muscle car always has been if you turn to an import engine it will just be very strange. maybe help though who knows well see how it all unravels
natedog2008 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #35
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
At this point I'ld say I'll buy the 3.6 V6 model, but 260hp??? Come on, they can totally bring that number up to 300!!
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #36
asrapid
 
asrapid's Avatar
 
Drives: Stratus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Croatia
Posts: 75
I don't see why is there such opssesion with number of cylinder for base camaro. The engine here is probably the one from pontiac solstice which isn't bad. I'm from Europe so maybe i don't get it but i think performance is what matter.V8 engine is usually found only in much more expensive car here..and more and more manufacturers is going with smaller displacement and smaller number of cylinder. Rumors are GM is planning on even smaller displacement V6 with TT and over 400 hp in future..this engine could easily step in instead of some V8 engines.
I don't see a problem here. Base version will be I4 with 260+(they could probably rise the power) v6 with 300+ and v8 with who knows how much HP. Who doesn't want I4 won't buy it..maybe this engine will go well on markets where are higher taxes on displacement and power (like in my country). Maybe this engine will be offered only on European market. And if i understood there is more tuners and tuning parts available for ecotec then for Gm V6 so maybe this will help.
asrapid is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:16 PM   #37
natedog2008
 
Drives: 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 stg.2
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokn' View Post
who are they trying to appeal to? ricers? i think they need to rethink their target audience!
why the people who they should target is the teen's and the younger audience mid 20's and with a v8 always nice you can never reach the fun of a turbo car just the force that it produces is fun and thats why they are looking at that plus there is so much more you can do as far as moding a turbo vehicle.
i know i need to use but i got the point through hopefully
natedog2008 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:19 PM   #38
LSxcellent
 
Drives: MINI Cooper S
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
Eurpean Connection?

Anyone else see the possibilities of a 4cyl Camaro selling well overseas?

In Europe taxes are based on engine displacement, so a Turbo 4 cyl would be in a cheaper tax bracket than a NA 6cyl. This means more sales, better prices, more money for USA!

Yeah us enthusiasts probably won't buy it, but hey, kids are making 400hp turbo 2.0L engines these days! If they want to use a Camaro as the basis for that kind of project, why not?

Sure a LS3 is great, but power is power and enthusiasm comes in many forms! If you don't like it, don't buy it!

~LSx
__________________
"When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?"
LSxcellent is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:21 PM   #39
smokn'
 
Drives: Banana boat
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The carribeen
Posts: 228
asrapid,
it is more than just performance. i know it kinda sounds stupid, but the camaro's v8 is an american tradition. a 6 could never replace it. and we all have to remember, while the camaro has had a 4 before, it just isn't a ricer and never will be.
smokn' is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:28 PM   #40
rolnslo
Rolling along...
 
rolnslo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS SGM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,319
So, what is the point of putting the turbo-4 into a Camaro to deal with rising gas prices?

That engine in the Sky Redline and the Solstice GXP is rated at 19city/26(A)-28(M) mpg. The Sky and Solstice each weigh a hair under 3000lbs.

If the 3.6L DI V6 is rated at 16(M)-17(A)/25(M)-26(A) mpg in a nearly 3900lb Cadillac CTS, how in the heck do they intend to get the same turbo-4 gas mileage in the Camaro as they do in the Sky and Solstice? I highly doubt that they've managed to cut the Camaro's weight down to anywhere near the 3000lbs that the turbo-4 is currently pushing. More weight = more effort to move it = more gas used.

Oh, and on the premium pricing over the Mustang...Smart move Lutz! You just increased the collectability of the 5th gen Camaros since it will likely be a short production run, ala GTO, due to not hitting the forecasted sales numbers needed to support a long term investment.

Will I still buy a new Camaro? Absolutely!
Will I be willing to pay an extra premium over a now inflated MSRP? No way! I'll wait until they put them on year-end clearance due to slow sales.
rolnslo is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:28 PM   #41
asrapid
 
asrapid's Avatar
 
Drives: Stratus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Croatia
Posts: 75
but i don't see that there is talk about I4 replacing V8..we are talking here about base engine. You guys didn't expect V8 to be base engine for camaro i hope?
I mean maybe I4 engines aren't so cool like V8 but selling them can help raise money for developing new V8 engines.
asrapid is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:36 PM   #42
Brent87LT1
Sarcastic
 
Drives: like a maniac!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NE OK.
Posts: 32
Mustangs have survived since 1964.5. They offered 4cyl for many years.

And this was before we had the term: "ricers"


I do agree to let the 4 cyl. buyer get a Cobalt etc, and leave the Camaro for the premium car buyer (V6 & V8) only.
Brent87LT1 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:37 PM   #43
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by asrapid View Post
but i don't see that there is talk about I4 replacing V8..we are talking here about base engine. You guys didn't expect V8 to be base engine for camaro i hope?
I mean maybe I4 engines aren't so cool like V8 but selling them can help raise money for developing new V8 engines.
Asrapid,

I see your point and agree with you. Unfortunately domestic (obviously in this case meaning American) car makers haven't mastered the "less is more" approach to powertrain development as well as the Europeans and Asians. As a result of the "American way" a stigma has been produced around certain engines in certain cars based purely off of the number of cylinders under the hood, not to mention the effort put forth until now towards engineering smaller more powerful engines. In time (starting now) I think this will change drastically, especially for those of us looking for performance on a budget.
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:38 PM   #44
fireresq157

 
fireresq157's Avatar
 
Drives: 1997 SS & 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,027
4 banger

I could live with a V6 in the lineup , either straight up of forced induction. A 4 cylinder is an insult to the heritage of this car. I guess they haven't learned it's all about the weight to horsepower ratio that gives you better economy. If the car drops 1-2 hundred pounds in weight (I'm being generous)by doing this what are you going to save 1-2 mpg? 1-2 mpg is not going to sway anybody into buying or not buying this car. Drop 800 to 1000 now were talking but that's not going to happen unless they redesign completely the car for this engine. Anyhow I'm buying a V8. Anyone remember the difference in MPG between the last gen V6 and V8 (1-2mpg)? That's of course if your not beating the crap out of the v8 and everything is running perfectly. I can be wittness to that i've owned both.
fireresq157 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:40 PM   #45
z2809
 
Drives: 2006 Mazda 3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1
I personally think that GM WILL increase the price somewhat dramatically, to try to further separate the Camaro and Stang, like say $25k for a 6-cyl, and over $30 for a v-8. This will KILL the whole concept. I would be willing to bet that 90% of the new buyers want the camaro because of it being compared to the mustang, so if the price is increased this much, it will mean the end again.

I'm a working man with 3 kids and a thrifty wife, I could swing her to a $22k camaro 6-cyl, but if what I'm afraid of comes true, a $25k+ car, I won't be able to get one until several more years out, and I pick up a used one.

Why GM? Why??
z2809 is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:40 PM   #46
Dan
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 GTO
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokn' View Post
who are they trying to appeal to? ricers? i think they need to rethink their target audience!
No thats the Cobalt SS' job...

Anyone else think its strange that Peper told us that the v6 would be 300+ and Lutz is saying that the v6 will only be 260?? Hell even that engine in the transverse crossover is 283, I don't see how Lutz can be right about the output of the 3.6 in the Camaro.
Dan is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:43 PM   #47
decodethis
Dr. Decode
 
Drives: 1969 Camaro SS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Strongsville, OH
Posts: 10
Ok, I calmed down a bit when I realized that there have been 4-cylinder Camaros. But honestly I think the GM's leadership has lost its touch to the Camaro buying audience. Isn't that what happened in 2002? Why not play towards the car's strengths as the Mustang has done all this time.

The sad thing is Ford is thinking about a turbo-6 instead of a V8. Ah, the second Golden Age may not be what I envisioned...
decodethis is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:45 PM   #48
returnofthereal
 
returnofthereal's Avatar
 
Drives: 69,71,84 Camaros
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 21
All this talk about fuel economy and 6 cylinders makes me sick. I own a Cobalt SS Supercharged and although I love that car would not own a Camaro with that motor. The performance is great dependability has been awesome but there is just something wrong with rolling up in a Camaro that doesnt have V-8 sound. All the 6 and 4 cylinder camaros that came before were a joke. Nobody wanted them just couldnt afford the V-8. Camaro=V-8
returnofthereal is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:48 PM   #49
LaffChevy
 
Drives: DontLaugh,SRT4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: warminster PA
Posts: 3
whats next ,,bring back a 4 cyl vette...................chevette?---lol
LaffChevy is offline  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:48 PM   #50
smokn'
 
Drives: Banana boat
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The carribeen
Posts: 228
and another thing, if they really increase the price, it will kill the sales. we're in a recession here and it's probably only going to get worse. if the difference b/w a camaro and a mustang is $2-5 thousand, that is plenty of incentive to go with the stang. especially if the 6 isn't all that more powerful than the stang.
smokn' is offline  
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro ls3 news...true or false? Dark Knight Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 74 06-05-2008 06:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.