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Old 03-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #35
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At this point I'ld say I'll buy the 3.6 V6 model, but 260hp??? Come on, they can totally bring that number up to 300!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #36
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I don't see why is there such opssesion with number of cylinder for base camaro. The engine here is probably the one from pontiac solstice which isn't bad. I'm from Europe so maybe i don't get it but i think performance is what matter.V8 engine is usually found only in much more expensive car here..and more and more manufacturers is going with smaller displacement and smaller number of cylinder. Rumors are GM is planning on even smaller displacement V6 with TT and over 400 hp in future..this engine could easily step in instead of some V8 engines.
I don't see a problem here. Base version will be I4 with 260+(they could probably rise the power) v6 with 300+ and v8 with who knows how much HP. Who doesn't want I4 won't buy it..maybe this engine will go well on markets where are higher taxes on displacement and power (like in my country). Maybe this engine will be offered only on European market. And if i understood there is more tuners and tuning parts available for ecotec then for Gm V6 so maybe this will help.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:16 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by smokn' View Post
who are they trying to appeal to? ricers? i think they need to rethink their target audience!
why the people who they should target is the teen's and the younger audience mid 20's and with a v8 always nice you can never reach the fun of a turbo car just the force that it produces is fun and thats why they are looking at that plus there is so much more you can do as far as moding a turbo vehicle.
i know i need to use but i got the point through hopefully
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:19 PM   #38
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Eurpean Connection?

Anyone else see the possibilities of a 4cyl Camaro selling well overseas?

In Europe taxes are based on engine displacement, so a Turbo 4 cyl would be in a cheaper tax bracket than a NA 6cyl. This means more sales, better prices, more money for USA!

Yeah us enthusiasts probably won't buy it, but hey, kids are making 400hp turbo 2.0L engines these days! If they want to use a Camaro as the basis for that kind of project, why not?

Sure a LS3 is great, but power is power and enthusiasm comes in many forms! If you don't like it, don't buy it!

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:21 PM   #39
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asrapid,
it is more than just performance. i know it kinda sounds stupid, but the camaro's v8 is an american tradition. a 6 could never replace it. and we all have to remember, while the camaro has had a 4 before, it just isn't a ricer and never will be.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:28 PM   #40
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So, what is the point of putting the turbo-4 into a Camaro to deal with rising gas prices?

That engine in the Sky Redline and the Solstice GXP is rated at 19city/26(A)-28(M) mpg. The Sky and Solstice each weigh a hair under 3000lbs.

If the 3.6L DI V6 is rated at 16(M)-17(A)/25(M)-26(A) mpg in a nearly 3900lb Cadillac CTS, how in the heck do they intend to get the same turbo-4 gas mileage in the Camaro as they do in the Sky and Solstice? I highly doubt that they've managed to cut the Camaro's weight down to anywhere near the 3000lbs that the turbo-4 is currently pushing. More weight = more effort to move it = more gas used.

Oh, and on the premium pricing over the Mustang...Smart move Lutz! You just increased the collectability of the 5th gen Camaros since it will likely be a short production run, ala GTO, due to not hitting the forecasted sales numbers needed to support a long term investment.

Will I still buy a new Camaro? Absolutely!
Will I be willing to pay an extra premium over a now inflated MSRP? No way! I'll wait until they put them on year-end clearance due to slow sales.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:28 PM   #41
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but i don't see that there is talk about I4 replacing V8..we are talking here about base engine. You guys didn't expect V8 to be base engine for camaro i hope?
I mean maybe I4 engines aren't so cool like V8 but selling them can help raise money for developing new V8 engines.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:36 PM   #42
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Mustangs have survived since 1964.5. They offered 4cyl for many years.

And this was before we had the term: "ricers"


I do agree to let the 4 cyl. buyer get a Cobalt etc, and leave the Camaro for the premium car buyer (V6 & V8) only.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:37 PM   #43
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but i don't see that there is talk about I4 replacing V8..we are talking here about base engine. You guys didn't expect V8 to be base engine for camaro i hope?
I mean maybe I4 engines aren't so cool like V8 but selling them can help raise money for developing new V8 engines.
Asrapid,

I see your point and agree with you. Unfortunately domestic (obviously in this case meaning American) car makers haven't mastered the "less is more" approach to powertrain development as well as the Europeans and Asians. As a result of the "American way" a stigma has been produced around certain engines in certain cars based purely off of the number of cylinders under the hood, not to mention the effort put forth until now towards engineering smaller more powerful engines. In time (starting now) I think this will change drastically, especially for those of us looking for performance on a budget.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:38 PM   #44
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4 banger

I could live with a V6 in the lineup , either straight up of forced induction. A 4 cylinder is an insult to the heritage of this car. I guess they haven't learned it's all about the weight to horsepower ratio that gives you better economy. If the car drops 1-2 hundred pounds in weight (I'm being generous)by doing this what are you going to save 1-2 mpg? 1-2 mpg is not going to sway anybody into buying or not buying this car. Drop 800 to 1000 now were talking but that's not going to happen unless they redesign completely the car for this engine. Anyhow I'm buying a V8. Anyone remember the difference in MPG between the last gen V6 and V8 (1-2mpg)? That's of course if your not beating the crap out of the v8 and everything is running perfectly. I can be wittness to that i've owned both.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:40 PM   #45
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I personally think that GM WILL increase the price somewhat dramatically, to try to further separate the Camaro and Stang, like say $25k for a 6-cyl, and over $30 for a v-8. This will KILL the whole concept. I would be willing to bet that 90% of the new buyers want the camaro because of it being compared to the mustang, so if the price is increased this much, it will mean the end again.

I'm a working man with 3 kids and a thrifty wife, I could swing her to a $22k camaro 6-cyl, but if what I'm afraid of comes true, a $25k+ car, I won't be able to get one until several more years out, and I pick up a used one.

Why GM? Why??
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:40 PM   #46
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who are they trying to appeal to? ricers? i think they need to rethink their target audience!
No thats the Cobalt SS' job...

Anyone else think its strange that Peper told us that the v6 would be 300+ and Lutz is saying that the v6 will only be 260?? Hell even that engine in the transverse crossover is 283, I don't see how Lutz can be right about the output of the 3.6 in the Camaro.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:43 PM   #47
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Ok, I calmed down a bit when I realized that there have been 4-cylinder Camaros. But honestly I think the GM's leadership has lost its touch to the Camaro buying audience. Isn't that what happened in 2002? Why not play towards the car's strengths as the Mustang has done all this time.

The sad thing is Ford is thinking about a turbo-6 instead of a V8. Ah, the second Golden Age may not be what I envisioned...
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:45 PM   #48
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All this talk about fuel economy and 6 cylinders makes me sick. I own a Cobalt SS Supercharged and although I love that car would not own a Camaro with that motor. The performance is great dependability has been awesome but there is just something wrong with rolling up in a Camaro that doesnt have V-8 sound. All the 6 and 4 cylinder camaros that came before were a joke. Nobody wanted them just couldnt afford the V-8. Camaro=V-8
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:48 PM   #49
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whats next ,,bring back a 4 cyl vette...................chevette?---lol
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:48 PM   #50
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and another thing, if they really increase the price, it will kill the sales. we're in a recession here and it's probably only going to get worse. if the difference b/w a camaro and a mustang is $2-5 thousand, that is plenty of incentive to go with the stang. especially if the 6 isn't all that more powerful than the stang.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:49 PM   #51
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Anyone else think its strange that Peper told us that the v6 would be 300+ and Lutz is saying that the v6 will only be 260?? Hell even that engine in the transverse crossover is 283, I don't see how Lutz can be right about the output of the 3.6 in the Camaro.
What is also a little confusing is...they keep quoting 6.0 as the V8? Both Lutz and Peper have quoted this...hmmm?

I will wait to see just what "premium priced" means...but I am still holding out for a V8/M6 within a thousand dollars of a similarly equipped Mustang.
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