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Old 03-19-2008, 07:53 PM   #151
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I've been fighting off the folks that have been saying that this car would fail for a long time but with these comments, I might have to change my mind. If they're planning on having a $25-30k V6 Camaro, then the car will never sell. It will sit on dealers lots just like the GTO did and the car will be dead in 2-3 years.

Why go with the DI 3.6? It's an expensive motor and if you want performance, just get the V8. I'd bet that both of those motors cost about the same! I never thought that GM wouldn't try to compete with the Mustang. It seems to me that they're trying to price this car to people in their 30's-50's that can afford a high dollar sports car and leaving the younger crowd out. GM is making a mistake here.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:53 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
So it's a Cobalt SS in a Camaro body. Think seriously about this, GM. It'll be a heavier, bigger Cobalt. You'd be letting one of the greatest muscle cars ever built be beaten by a new, unorthodox 4-banger. This is a terrible idea.
IF they do this, it will in the BASE camaro. The cobalt SS is that, an SS.
GM is trying to put an efficient engine in a stunny body. The people that buy the base camaro (mostly none of us) dont care that a cobalt SS can beat them in a race.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:54 PM   #153
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So there is going to a bunch of ricer v4 camaros running around making the real camaros look bad... i dont even think a v6 could honestly be seen as "muscle", but a V4!?
Please, if you are going to waste your breath on posting dumb crap please get your dumb crap facts right. They don't make V4's for cars.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:56 PM   #154
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I can't honestly understand what everyone's getting so worked up for. It's not like they said they're not makeing the V-8! AND YOU CAN BUY ONE! The only thing that surprises me is that they are going to detune the DI V6. It doesn't make alot of sense to me if the 6 has the same power as the Turbo4. Even just a little more torque doesn't matter. Leave the 6 like it is in the CTS!
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:56 PM   #155
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The way i see it they are making a sound business decision, make a low end reasonably powered starter Camaro for the mainstay, then push the v6 - v8 to the enthusiast crowd.

Heh, i can see that cobalt pulling up to me thinking he can take me, and me blowing his arse off the road

As to premium pricing, i think its probably a bad word to use, i think the prices for the base versions will be reasonable, and after that you pay to play. But aint that always the way?
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:57 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by MorphWS6 View Post
I've been fighting off the folks that have been saying that this car would fail for a long time but with these comments, I might have to change my mind. If they're planning on having a $25-30k V6 Camaro, then the car will never sell. It will sit on dealers lots just like the GTO did and the car will be dead in 2-3 years.

Why go with the DI 3.6? I never thought that wouldn't try to compete with the Mustang. It seems to me that they're trying to market this car to people in their 30's-50's that can afford a high dollar sports car and leaving the younger crowd out. GM is making a mistake here.
Lutz never anything like that!

The only thing i took from that interview is that GM is CONSIDERING puting a 4 cyl turbo as the base instead of a 3.6 v6 thats just as powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limeyness View Post
The way i see it they are making a sound business decision, make a low end reasonably powered starter Camaro for the mainstay, then push the v6 - v8 to the enthusiast crowd.

Heh, i can see that cobalt pulling up to me thinking he can take me, and me blowing his arse off the road

As to premium pricing, i think its probably a bad word to use, i think the prices for the base versions will be reasonable, and after that you pay to play. But aint that always the way?
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:03 PM   #157
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It does not matter what engine gm puts into the camaro. Dealers will just jack up the price anyway. Ford dealers jacked up the price for the gt 500.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:06 PM   #158
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Only one way to fix that....don't buy from ANY dealer who marks it up....wait until they pull there heads out of there a$$es.!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:09 PM   #159
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A FOUR CYLINDER?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!?! Even MUSTANG hasn't gone that far!!!!

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Apocalypse View Post
Hmm, I'm not as intrigued about the motor info as I am about the pricing. GM originally wanted to sell 100,000+ Camaros annually priced about the same as Mustang, now what? How much is the "premium" gonna cost us?
Exactly! If GM is going to jack the prices up on these cars, then they can't expect to sell 100,000 cars a year, they will be in the same boat they were in in 2001 when they found out they were going to have to stop making Camaros! Have they learned NOTHING???

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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
But what's that gonna cost me? Premium, in fancy talk just means 'more'. 28,000 is more than a Mustang for a starting price. And that will be great, afaic....Anybody got thoughts on that?
Premium is fine as long as it is reasonably priced! If it's not reasonably priced, I won't be able to afford one and I am not going to make myself go broke trying to afford a car that is over-priced to begin with that I have been waiting on for 3 years now.

If GM wants to keep this Camaro around, they have GOT to keep the prices low and COMPETITIVE with the Mustang!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DerScotsman View Post
You know, Bob Lutz has a big mouth.
haha I know!
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:12 PM   #160
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Premium doesnt mean "jacked up price"!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:15 PM   #161
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OMG OMG The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!

People, please shut up and read what was originally posted. There will be a V8. There will be a V8. There might be an I4 -rated at 260 hp and 260 ft lbs. MIGHT. It is not definiate, it is something that may or may not happen. But regardless it doesn't really matter because 99% of the members here are interested in the V8's. and there have been I4 Camaros in the past, with fewer than 100 hp. I think its much more of an insult to call a V8 making under 200 hp a Camaro than one with 260 hp in a 4 banger. Neither one is a muscle car. To be classed as such you need a power to weight of under 13 lbs/hp in my books. Even then, that proposed I4 gets close.

The ecotec is a great engine. I would never buy a Camaro powered by one. But such a car would beat a V6 mustang and V6 Challenger in pretty much any race. And power could be built very easily by tuners, those people that build up 4 bangers that can beat corvettes. Guess what, they are the new generation of gearheads. Doesn't matter if you like them or not. They exist, and there are alot of them. it would be stupid for GM to completely ignore them. Now, whether they go ahead and actually cater to them with the Camaro remains to be seen.

Lastly, pricing. Seems to me there is a premium mustang, 2 actually. They sell a whoping $1300 more than the regular versions. OMG. Could it be that perhaps when mentioning 'premium' and 'mustang' and 'pricing' Bob could have meant that the Camaro would be competitive with the premium priced mustang? No, of course not. It has to be $5000 more, GM is stupid, the Camaro will surely fail. Something tells me there are a few more economists at GM than on this board. People who are paid to think of projected sales for particular cars at particular prices. Oh, and they also have people like Fbodfather who pretty much watches everything we say and reports it back where appropriate. as well as reps at car shows over the last 2 years.

All in all, if we scream loud enough GM will hear us. But if we sound like idiots they will not listen. I don't want an I4, not very fond of it going into the Camaro like most of the rest of you. I want a V8 Camaro priced within about 10% of the mustang GT. However, there are thousands of potential buyers out there that don't care at all about power or acceleration. Very few of them visit this site. They saw a cool looking car in transformers or at an autoshow. And they would really like to have one in their driveway. spending an extra $10 000 on performance they will never use is a waste of their money.

Thats it from me for now
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:19 PM   #162
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Man I don't even care about the price. I have been waiting since I paid off my 1992 Camaro RS V8 in 1995 to buy a new Camaro. I bought that bad boy new in 91' and have 400k miles on it. Still has the original engine & tranny. I have parked her for now, and in 2005 I bought a new 2005 VW Jetta GLI with the 1.8t. Man this little 4 banger turbo is fun to drive. And with all of the performance upgrades for it. This car has almost endless tuning potential. I really don't care if they bring in a 4 cylinder turbo car for the base model Camaro. I am not going to buy a base model anyways. So why are some of you so concerned about it. It will probably bring in alot of new age groups and sell more then 100k a year. That would be awesome and would also fortify that the Camaro is back and here to stay. I am waiting to pay off the Jetta in 2011 anyway before I buy a new Camaro. By then they will probably have all of the bugs fixed and the bad ass SS version will probably be out by then also. That is the one I plan on buying and I really don't care if I have to pay 40k to 50k to get one. I have saved a huge chunk in my personal savings account on the 50k possible price already and am ready to use it for my down payment. By the time 2011 rolls around, I may have enough to just pay cash. Peace out.

This is what I want my Gen5 Camaro SS to look like.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:26 PM   #163
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Bottom line is GM is counting on this car to seriously boost sales and profits. They are NOT going to make decisions that will drive customers away. They are not sitting in their offices all day trying to come up with new ways to piss off all the hot-headed V8-lovers on camaro5.com. I don't particularly like the idea of an I-4 Camaro, but if GM tells me that they have to offer it to A) stay competitive, B) meet sales/profit numbers, or C) be able to offer the V8 then I'll swallow my "heritage pride" and just buy the V8.

An I-4 will move Camaro to a whole new demographic and might even boost sales (while stealing customers from imports). I'll treat any I-4 owner like I would a V6 or V8 Camaro driver: as a friend and fellow appreciator of American automaking. Any of you who think someone who would buy an I-4 is a lesser being has a very wrong attitude. "Camaro" means "friend" after all, and that's what we should all be about.

and PS- "Premium" could mean as little as $5 more than the Mustang. We've been told since inception that it'll be priced competitively and I sincerely doubt that GM will go back on that.

We've kept the faith this long, let's keep it a little bit longer.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:30 PM   #164
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Ya know I dont care who I can beat in a race. I wont be drag racing anyway. But the PREMIUM PRICE thing is stupid. This was supposed to be a blue collar car. Not some overpaid executive play toy. Damn it why you want to screw us?
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:34 PM   #165
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LATEST NEWS FROM THE AUTO SHOW>>>

Quote:
NEW YORK (JK News Wire)- Chevrolet announced today it is already working on a special-edition Camaro to compete in the sports compact market and appeal to the 18-24 buyer segment.

The "BanSSai" Camaro will feature a Turbo 4-cylinder engine, special ground effects package, carbon-fiber look gas cover and special graphics that combine traditional Japanese anime and the famed Camaro Super Sport striping from the '60s.

"We're going to win back market share that Honda and its Civic have dominated for years," said Robert Lutz, GM vice chairman. "While this may be anathema to our traditional gearhead fans, it's a way for the Camaro to bridge a generational divide."

Lutz said the Camaro will still feature traditional muscle versions of the still-in-testing coupe, but that the turbocharged V4 would complement the surprisingly powerful V6 planned.

"Debuting the new Camaro in Transformers was a wink-and-nod to this special edition that's been on the drawing board since day one," said Lutz. "It wasn't coincidence that the car returned in a movie about Japanese toys. To complete the theme, all the interior displays will be capable of displaying in Japanese, as well as English and metric."

Lutz wouldn't provide a specific price of the BanSSai Camaro, but said it would be deeply discounted to appeal to the traditionally frugal import "tuners" and beat even the Civic and usual rival Mustang on base price. Options would be GM's means of making a profit.

"Have you seen these guys -- they'll spend double the cost of their car on motors, stereos and oversized, non-functional airfoils? We'll gouge them with extras."

Now if you got beyond the first paragraph of that and still believed it, I'm sorry. It's a parody. We all need some levity in the midst of this confusing 4-banger news. Rather than getting angry, I got creative and let my mind wander.

But everyone's said what I'd say:
-- as long as there's a V8
-- it's going to be a small, light car
-- the Solstice (GXP especially) is quick - and they're mulling using its drivetrain
-- low-end spreads the non-recurring development costs and makes the model more sustainable for those of us who demand a monster
-- think about how many of those low-end first-gen Camaros were out there. Without them, what would everyone be using to make the SS and Z28 clones today? LOL

This isn't the best news. But I'm not willing to walk away from Camaro before I've even seen it in person.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:37 PM   #166
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Premium doesnt mean "jacked up price"!!!!!!!!
WTF seriously? What does it mean then???? Premium gas= more expensive than regular. Premium cigars= more expensive than regular cigars. Come on, premium always means more expensive! I'm telling them i WILL NOT spend over 32k for a fully loaded v8. Not counting the SS or the vert, as I understand they may reach 35k. If thats not where they are then I will look elsewhere, as I see many others will too.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #167
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To those concerned about the pricing premium, I advise you to take a look at this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2799
Also, go here to learn more about premium pricing on pony cars http://www56.forddirect.fordvehicles...el=&statetoken=
Click "Build your vehicle", select the Mustang, then 'lets build'
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #168
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I'm not to worried about this. In my opinon, GM is doing the right thing by possibly making a 4-banger, better fuel economy. I'm a business owner and have multiple offices that I manage. I make a good living. I can afford the SS with 500 horses. I and I will be filling her up with premium gas.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that this blog is made up of one thing and one thing only. Camaro fans. We all come in different shapes, sizes and incomes. Especially income. How many of us can actually afford the gas right now? How many of us can afford to buy a car or another car for that matter? I may have an RX-8 and a 67 SS but I drive a Kia to work 5 days out of the week. So for every DOLLAR I save in gas helps me get closer to the SS, which I will treat like my RX-8 and 67 SS.

So my f***ing question is to all that gripe about 4 cilinder and say it's not a Camaro, what is it that you want? 400 horses, or a CAMARO!!!

If I couldn't afford 400 horses, I'd still get a 4banger Camaro. I wouldn't feel any different cuz I would have the badest-ass car on the f***ing road. GM is thinking about the guys that want this car and diliver Pizza. I would be thanking my lucky stars for this statement.

And for those of you like me that have a check already made out to GM with SS Camaro or Z28 in the memo, remember that their are guys that want the Camaro just as bad that are less fortunate or just not ready. Here's their chance to join our brotherhood. And most importantly, have so many damn beautiful cars out there that is chokes all of mustangdom!!!!

GLORY GLORY TO THE CAMARO!!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:47 PM   #169
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Quote:
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There might be an I4 -rated at 260 hp and 260 ft lbs. MIGHT. It is not definiate, it is something that may or may not happen.
I think it's a dead certain it will happen with the eventual CAFE "creep".
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:48 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by LDiablo View Post
LATEST NEWS FROM THE AUTO SHOW>>>
Quote:
NEW YORK (JK News Wire)- Chevrolet announced today it is already working on a special-edition Camaro to compete in the sports compact market and appeal to the 18-24 buyer segment.

The "BanSSai" Camaro will feature a Turbo 4-cylinder engine, special ground effects package, carbon-fiber look gas cover and special graphics that combine traditional Japanese anime and the famed Camaro Super Sport striping from the '60s.

"We're going to win back market share that Honda and its Civic have dominated for years," said Robert Lutz, GM vice chairman. "While this may be anathema to our traditional gearhead fans, it's a way for the Camaro to bridge a generational divide."

Lutz said the Camaro will still feature traditional muscle versions of the still-in-testing coupe, but that the turbocharged V4 would complement the surprisingly powerful V6 planned.

"Debuting the new Camaro in Transformers was a wink-and-nod to this special edition that's been on the drawing board since day one," said Lutz. "It wasn't coincidence that the car returned in a movie about Japanese toys. To complete the theme, all the interior displays will be capable of displaying in Japanese, as well as English and metric."

Lutz wouldn't provide a specific price of the BanSSai Camaro, but said it would be deeply discounted to appeal to the traditionally frugal import "tuners" and beat even the Civic and usual rival Mustang on base price. Options would be GM's means of making a profit.

"Have you seen these guys -- they'll spend double the cost of their car on motors, stereos and oversized, non-functional airfoils? We'll gouge them with extras."



Where did you get this LDiablo??
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:49 PM   #171
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booo....dumb idea GM. The four cylinder version is a waste-even if it has 260 hp. IMO the car wont get great fuel economy due to the fact it is going to be HEAVY. Think of a 1/2 ton chevy p/u with a 4.3 v6. Most of the ones I know of get worse mpg than the v8...

Add to that a "muscle car" with a 4 cylinder? Ghey...
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:50 PM   #172
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ok, to those i4 hater haters, we understand there was a 4 in 82-86, but at least me personally, i think it was a flop and a bit of a disgrace. we're just trying to preserve the traditional name of camaro. in any event, i'm aggravated the 6 got detuned. also, if the ss turns out to be more than around $31-32, i'm going with a 06 goat. come on gm, make it more than competitive with the stang, or u ain't gona be selling no 100 large a year!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:51 PM   #173
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Can't we all just get along? I refuse to add to the mass of stupidity here. You people are freaking out about something that doesn't affect you. Take a few minutes thinking about clouds, count to 10 while holding your breath, count sheep, whatever.




If you plan on getting a V8, get a v8 and just chill.
If you plan on buying the v6, get a v6 and be happy.
If you were thinking about a v6 and now might want a 4 cyl Turbo, that's great too.
If you think the 4 cylinder camaro engine is a disgrace because no other pony car has had a 4 cyl, look at the 80's mustangs.

If you are concerned about the "preimum price" comment, let's wait and see if this is explained within a few months. We'll know all the important information around fall when the Challenger is released because GM wants to let the public know that they have a superior product. If at that time you want to whine and bitch and complain, feel free.




I'm very disappointed with the number of people who sign up here, have less than 10 posts, and are spouting off insults and crying without adding any intelligent comments to balance their posts. Just making hate threads and calling Lutz a douche won't solve anything. At least be civil while discussing this topic. There's no reason to use profanity, it just shows a lack of vocabulary or lack of control. If you're that immature, go buy a mustang or challenger. Have your instant gratification and we'll wait for the better product.

If you really dislike the Camaro and feel the need to bash it, please go join a forum of a car you like. We don't need the drama and this thread is the reason why. People with 3 and 7 posts show up, "@#*$ GM, they suck, they can't make a product right. kthxbai2u" is not what this forum was created for.

If you want to have an intelligent person from GM respond and maybe take your concern to heart, please don't sound like a fanboy youtube commenter.

Thanks for your time and let's keep it civil guys.



As for me, I've set one of my life's goals to be owning a car with power, as well as having a '69 camaro RS/SS as my uncle had one. I have never seen it, but I've always wanted a muscle car for the V8 rumble and I want to be able to own a car that others can envy and that I can drag or pull on people almost at will.

The 5th Gen Camaro kills both these birds with one stone. This is one of my dream cars. If the "premium price" means I'm going to have to shell out 40k or more for the car of my dreams, I will just walk away. I will not buy a v6 because that's not what my life's goal is to own. I want the top, most powerful v8 I can get, but I'm not going to screw up my life trying to pay off a car loan that will cost me more than a down payment for a house. My dreams will be shattered but I won't be freaking out. I will keep the faith until official information is released, and I hope with all my heart that GM will make me proud and my dream a reality.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:55 PM   #174
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Quote:
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that this blog is made up of one thing and one thing only. Camaro fans. We all come in different shapes, sizes and incomes. Especially income. How many of us can actually afford the gas right now? How many of us can afford to buy a car or another car for that matter?
Another reason I went ahead and bought an '07 Silverado so that I could get used to crappy mileage so that when I buy the SS, I'm used to it. Course at $3+ a gallon, I'm having some buyer's remorse.

Quote:
ROFL. That was great! Honestly guys, it could be worse, the new Camaro could have been a Daewoo or something. It's honestly not that bad, just a new interpretation of "American Muscle".
Forgot to respond to this earlier (too busy trying to be 'funny') -- 5th generation is all about contradiction. This 4 cylinder thing shouldn't shake us too bad. I mean look at what DerScotsman says. In essence, isn't this Camaro going to be built in Australia? What kind of American muscle is built down under? LOL
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:55 PM   #175
AirGoya

 
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Originally Posted by munkee drummer View Post
WTF seriously? What does it mean then???? Premium gas= more expensive than regular. Premium cigars= more expensive than regular cigars. Come on, premium always means more expensive! I'm telling them i WILL NOT spend over 32k for a fully loaded v8. Not counting the SS or the vert, as I understand they may reach 35k. If thats not where they are then I will look elsewhere, as I see many others will too.
Yea it does mean more expensive.
But what did you expect? The mustang to have 300hp at $28,000 and the camaro have 500hp for the same price?
Come on now. They are making a better car than the mustang. There will be good reason the camaro will cost more. The cost difference will be within $1K imo.
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