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Old 03-19-2008, 08:57 PM   #176
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It'll be built in Canada, but was largely designed/initially tested down under, but the same premise stands.

We're in modern times and while tradition is great, it won't sell cars. GM has to adapt to our current times and circumstances, which they're doing admirably while still offering a V8 with likely 400hp, and honestly who can ask for more?

EDIT: I'm really worried about what Scott is going to think when he encounters this thread. Please Scott, I promise, we're not all panicky, emotional, faith-lacking haters...
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:58 PM   #177
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Quote:
Where did you get this LDiablo??
I wrote it. Was parodying the line of thought that some were starting to go down about the 4-banger pandering to the ricer crowd. So I wrote something that would just take that to the extreme. I noted it was a parody but perhaps wasn't clear enough. Sorry if it wasn't. Just meant to introduce some humor in a thread that has people really torque'd and not in a good way.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:59 PM   #178
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Wink

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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Times are changing. If you expected to never see a 4banger Camaro again, you were fooling yourself, frankly.

I stress to you: Do not underestimate this car simply because it will include a 4 cyllinder engine in it's lineup.

The V6, and the V8 will MORE than meet the needs of everyone here. And they will be prices close the the stang's version of such models. so a 300hp V6 for ~22-23k. Are you really gonna complain about that? Really? Why worry about a 4 cyllinder edition that you wouldn't buy anyways?

The inclusion of an I4 does NOT diminish the car's muscle/pony/sports car status. If anything, it enhances it. No, hear me out: What other sports car (of the three) could appeal to those who want a 4? None. This is a step up on the competition as much as it is a step down in some of your minds. It will assist the Camaro's sales, so that you and I can have our V8's.

There is much more to be gained by this revelation that not.

Please, don't worry. This is one of those times where you are really tested in your ability to keep the faith. From all the way up to Rick Wagoner, people in GM are as excited as us about this car. They WILL NOT fail us.
Exactly! Anything that will help the Camaro stick around is good,
I know 90% of the people here are going to buy a V8, but 260 horsepower from a 4? that's pretty impressive, and 10 more horsepower than what the base challenger will get,
You could be in a 4 Camaro and still have no problem beating the base Challengers
haha, unless it has about 500 ft. lbs. of torque to move that 2 tons
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:01 PM   #179
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I agree with you Mindz.

I will admit that I will only buy a Camaro with a V8, cause that is what I have dreamed about since I was a teenager. But do you guys realize that that four banger only has 25 less horse power than the LT1 in the '93 Z28? And I remember that Camaro took a lot of Mustang owners by suprise.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:16 PM   #180
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1. Stop Crying everyone

2. The V8 Camaro will STILL be available (hopefully under 30K)

3. This will help GM with all this CAFE BS. Though I would think in the Camaro a V6 might get better MPG

4. KEEP THE FAITH--Fbodfather
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:18 PM   #181
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Exactly! Anything that will help the Camaro stick around is good,
I know 90% of the people here are going to buy a V8, but 260 horsepower from a 4? that's pretty impressive, and 10 more horsepower than what the base challenger will get,
You could be in a 4 Camaro and still have no problem beating the base Challengers
haha, unless it has about 500 ft. lbs. of torque to move that 2 tons
Alot of you are utterly mistaken about the 4 banger. First off, it will still be on a Zeta chassis, IRS, and all the other stuff that makes this car so heavy. The only difference in weight will be the engine, which really is not going to be a whole lot lighter.

Furthermore, that 260hp is at the crank. That will drop down to about 220 or less considering it's going through a RWD drivetrain. 3500lbs with 220whp/225wtq is going to be very un-impressive. As a comparison, the SRT-4 (Neon not Caliber) puts down 230whp/250wtq yet weighs 2900lbs. The new cobalt should be similar to the SRT-4.

The Camaro turbo 4 will not take out much on the road. I'm sorry, but physics are a motherf@*ker and they don't lie.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:20 PM   #182
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O, Canada. Like you say, about the same difference.

Global marketing is blending all the old lines these days. Even in the defense industry, Boeing and Northrop Grumman are arguing the same kind of issue over how "American" their airplane offerings are.

Lest we forget that Toyota trucks are made in Tag's backyard of San Antonio, TEXAS.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:20 PM   #183
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As odd as this concept of a 4 cylinder Camaro may be to swallow for some, I think we'll all just have to get over it and accept that this is part of the compromise we as buyers of high-performance enthusiast cars will have to make, and I guarantee you that through all the bitching and moaning we will. This IS the future.
This was only the third post in this thread. Please read it again.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:24 PM   #184
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Besides the rest of the stuff, the higher price stuff is about the worse news I could have heard from GM.

I wont freak till the official numbers come out, but this is disappointing news for me.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:31 PM   #185
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Besides the rest of the stuff, the higher price stuff is about the worse news I could have heard from GM.

I wont freak till the official numbers come out, but this is disappointing news for me.
That's pretty much how I feel. Really, I could care less about the 4 banger or the V6. If I can't get the V8 I simply won't get the Camaro. Well, that's a lie because I will try to find a used one after the depreciation.

But yeah, price and engine choice are the make or break for me.

L76 and I won't buy

>$30k and I won't buy

LS3 for 27k would be sweet
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:36 PM   #186
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Yes, i got the name wrong but its still a 4 cylinder. Dont slap me or anything...
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:37 PM   #187
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LS3 for 27k would be sweet
You'll definitely be waiting for that one, if it ever happens.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:41 PM   #188
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GM from their stand point has to offer the three different engines. Times are changing and the gas prices are not going down EVER! They are expecting gas prices to rise over $4 this summer.
Actually most analysts are expecting gas to peak at a bit over $3.50 by the end of spring and dropping after that once full refinery capacity comes on line again. Current oil prices are based purely off speculation and are not supported at all by the supply and demand figures for the commodity. The bubble should pop soon and prices will come crashing down. It doesn't change CAFE and GM's white flag that goes with it, but I would bet good money prices will drop in the near future.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:42 PM   #189
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WOW!!!!! i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and settle down for a minute here... after reading this i really don't want a V8 camaro. i get great power, and better handling than a V8 camaro with a 6?!?!?!?!? when has the camaro EVER had a 50/50 weight distribution? you could probably mod the hell out of this trough forced induction. i personally like stock bodied camaros, but i also like to put body kits on my cars. the 4th gens were very often moded out to the max? what is the difference between a tuner and a ricer? the V8 Camaro SS of 93-02 has been modded/riced out so why not this one? i have seen 69's that have had this done to them and every generation of camaro has had this done. i say what ever you want have it your way (sorry b/k) if you want a turboed I4 and sweet body panels go for it. i personally would but this over the cobalt ss because this looks 10000000000000000x better. the camaro will once again beat the mustang on the track and the streets mark my words!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:50 PM   #190
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I think we should start a faction of V6 prospects here called the "3.6's". LoL, that was corny.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:52 PM   #191
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Yeah, fine, I don't have a problem with them making a 4 available but why is the v6 only going to be 260 in the Camaro when it is 300+ in the Cadillac?
I was actually considering the 6 but after hearing this I think I'll say the hell with it and get a v8.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:56 PM   #192
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That engine is base 260 in the Cadillac, and then a step up to the 300 hp version.
By the way the Malibu has it , and at 3500 pounds it's 0-60 and quarter mile times are basically identical to an IROC-Z 350 of 20 years ago. 0-60 mid 6 seconds, quarter under 15.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:01 PM   #193
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Here's what I understand from the Lutz comments:

The Camaro is DEFINITELY getting the 3.6L DI 300+ engine.

They were considering the non DI 3.6 for the base(260 HP), but are leaning twards the turbo Ecotec(260 HP) for the base.

They were considering lower V6 engines, but decided against it.

Now everybody take a deep breath...

Fbodfather told us to forget everything we knew about engines, He was right. But just because they're thinking of putting a turbo 4 in the Camaro does not diminish the standing of the the brand. I, for one, do not look down upon non V8 Camaros. Do any of the rest of you? You shouldn't. That V6 or I4 prev gen Camaro is what made your Z-28 and SS possible. GM is in the business of making cars and money. If there wasn't profit potential, GM wouldn't do it. There are consumers out there who neither know nor care about the heritage of the Camaro. They know it from a movie, and thought it was a cool looking car. They might prefer the turbo4 engine, and that's fine by me. That person just helped make my V8 more affordable.

I think the picture is brighter than many realize. Think about this, they chose a PERFORMANCE turboI4 eigine for the base car. They could have chosen...lets see...the I4 from the Colorado with 185HP. Or how about the 1.6L 103HP monster form the Aveo? They DIDN'T. They have been doing pretty damn well up to this point, I think they've earned a good deal of faith on our part. If you can't stomach that a Camaro somewhere in the the world might have I4 engine under the hood, then don't buy one. I'm sure there will be plenty of people to take you place in line. Some of them might even want the turbo4.

As for the premium price...

I consider a premium about $2k. Any more than that and the G8 GXP starts to look prety good.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:04 PM   #194
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That engine is base 260 in the Cadillac, and then a step up to the 300 hp version.
By the way the Malibu has it , and at 3500 pounds it's 0-60 and quarter mile times are basically identical to an IROC-Z 350 of 20 years ago. 0-60 mid 6 seconds, quarter under 15.
Which is terrible.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:07 PM   #195
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So let me see if I've got this straight -

They want to make a Camaro with the Cobalt's I4, but make it heavier, less efficient, and more expensive than the Cobalt.

They want to take an excellent V6, but then detune it so it doesn't make any more power than the I4, but still presumably charge more for it.

And I think it is safe to assume that they are offering the above two engines because they really don't want anyone but the privileged few to buy a V8, so it will cost major bucks.

And on top of all that, they want to give each model "premium" pricing. Premium, you know, the same exact word that is used to describe BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and other overpriced crap.

They're doing all of this because in the future their fleet will have to have higher average fuel economy, and not everyone can afford higher gas prices. Of course they could never help that average with Aveos, Volts, and Cobalts, so they'll take the guts out of the Camaro. Unfortunately, in doing so they forget that there are people like me who won't be driving many miles, so gas isn't a problem, but who also don't make enough money to buy a "premium" car. But as far as GM is concerned people like me just don't matter, so they throw us under the bus. Its a good thing for them the Camaro has no competition... What's that? Hyundai offers a small, RWD coupe with a 300+ hp V6? Ford's future V6s will have over 300 hp too? And Ford will have affordable V8s? Oh never mind GM, I just found somewhere else to go.

Absolutely amazing. Just when you thought all despair was lost and GM's losing ways were over, they manage to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. GM FTL!!!!!!!

I'm hoping I'm way wrong with the above.
I'm hoping Bob was just in a pissy mood, or was exaggerating just so we're even more impressed when it comes out. Maybe it was just some poorly chosen wording. Look, Ed Peper supposedly slipped up with the V8 engine size, and Ed Welburn slipped up and revealed there will be an SS Camaro. So it is entirely possible that he just said the wrong thing. In the end, chances are we're taking this in a way its not meant to be taken. I'm still keeping my optimism up. BUT, if what Bob said does match reality at face value, then what I ranted about above will be true, and I'll be gone. I'm a car enthusiast. It just so happens that the Camaro, as we know it now, was the car to be most enthusiastic about. But if that changes, there are plenty of other fish in the sea, and I won't take another look at GM.

Edit: I really hope everyone reads through the "shock factor" first part of my post and gets to the second part. Understand I'm not just trying to be optimistic; I honestly do think this could be all misconstrued and blown out of proportion. As usual, I'm waiting until everything is officially revealed in whole before making my decision. But I also want to put GM on notice that if they price this too high, especially the V8, I'll buy used or go to another manufacturer. Either way, it is money not in GM's pocket.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:13 PM   #196
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I think Bob's messin with you guys

Seriously, there will be a V8 Camaro in 09, so why worry? It may be ten grand more than a Mustang GT (and dealers will gouge you for another five-eight over that too), but oh well. Like he said, it will probably be vastly improved over the interior and suspension of the Stang, and you're getting nearly a liter and a half more displacement!
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:15 PM   #197
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Paging FBodfather to thread full of anxiety and despair.... PLEASE HELP!!!
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:16 PM   #198
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Where the hell is fbodfather when you need him huh?
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:19 PM   #199
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You know, after some thought I'm not so sure about the turbo 4-banger deal even from a mileage point of view. I dont know about the Ecotec but other turbo, fairly high output 4 bangers dont get the best mileage. Look at the Evo and STI, a stock LS1 M6 gets better mileage. Granted those motors have to power all 4 wheels but even the SRT-Skittles dont get great mileage. Maybe GM has something up their sleeve but this is a head scratcher.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:20 PM   #200
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Where the hell is fbodfather when you need him huh?
I'm am quite sure this is a very busy time for him. The Camaro is almost here, the autoshow season hasn't wrapped up yet, and of course there is always routine day-to-day job stuff that can pile up every now and then. If you had all of that and then some guy high up in your business said something that could potentially really piss off/scare the crap out of your product's rabid fans, would YOU want to show up here? I hope he's enjoying a nice drink right now thinking of anything but the Camaro. If anyone has earned a break, it is him.
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