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Old 07-22-2009, 11:49 PM   #86
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Sounds like he might have had air in the line. No offense to him, but nobody's perfect.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:22 AM   #87
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the rotors look like they are on backwards. or are they like that for more stopping power. seems like the left should be on the right and the right should be on the left.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:53 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjones14 View Post
Two things:

1. I wasn't freaking out
2. He wasn't racing

Here's what Brian said: The car was a week old, and he was getting ready to strip it down to make a real race car out of it. But before doing that, he wanted to take it to the track to see what it was in stock form, for a benchmark. Before hitting the track, he did swap out the pads. He then tested the car on a road course, and during his second stint, the brake pedal went to the floor. He parked the car, flushed the fluid, took it on the track again and the pedal went to the floor again, this time in the third stint.

Now I don't know how hard he was running it, and how hard he was braking. But it sounded to me like it was comparable to an HPDE track day. My only surprise is that the Brembo brakes failed. Brian's opinion is not only would you need ATE Super Blue, but you might also need ducting to cool things off.

If the Super Blue is all it takes to have awesome brakes on the track for an HPDE, then that's cool with me...
I apologize because i was a bit dramatic in my response. I did read his post, and IMO I would never take a street car out on track for any sort of lapping session without some good fluid in it. And i wouldn't be surprised that if I did go out with the factory fluid, I would manage to cook it pretty quickly.

Sounds to me like everything was too hot even after his second bleed, once you boil the fluid its in bad shape. Before making a final determination on what would be needed to track this car there would definitely need to be much more testing done. Extra brake cooling is never a bad idea tho IMO.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:35 PM   #89
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I can't believe I'll be the first to say this. This is complete B.S!! I thought when you got Brembo's on a car, they were the upgraded brakes.

So the "Brembos" that come on the 2SS are just basic brakes with the Brembo name on them? So if you want "real" Brembos then you already have to upgrade. These should have been the brakes that came on the 2SS to begin with, this is bullshit!!! Brembo can suck it!

If I'm going to spend money to upgrade I'm not getting Brembos!!

Fail. The stock Brembos are great street brakes. Phenomenal, considering they're working against about 4000 lbs and 430hp. However, putting an unprepped car on the track and pushing it to 7/10ths+ and expecting factory stuff to work is just ridiculous. This is the same story with virtually all cars.

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 pads, some RGS610 or comparable fluid, maybe an aftermarket 2 piece rotor to dissipate heat, and you should be golden. Ducting if you've got a lot of HEAVY braking or you're just that good (or bad). The calipers have more than enough

People have to prep their Z06s, M3s, Vipers, and so on and so forth the same way. Stuff designed to work on the street usually doesn't work on the track and vice versa. Those pads I mentioned? GARBAGE on the street. Great on the track. Changing pads on the Brembos is a breeze too. You can do it at the track before you go out, and swap them back to drive home. Have to rebed your street pads after, but that's not an issue for someone who wants to track-day their car.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:51 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
I apologize because i was a bit dramatic in my response. I did read his post, and IMO I would never take a street car out on track for any sort of lapping session without some good fluid in it. And i wouldn't be surprised that if I did go out with the factory fluid, I would manage to cook it pretty quickly.
No problem, Rogue. With only three HPDE track days under my belt, I'm still a noob. So I'm definitely all ears when guys with more experience are trying to help me out. Especially since my most recent HPDE at Watkins Glen resulted in my brake pedal almost going to the floor in the last track session.

I learned the hard way that braking hard repeatedly from triple-digit mph is not what a stock brake system was designed for.
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:01 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSOOCH View Post
I can't believe I'll be the first to say this. This is complete B.S!! I thought when you got Brembo's on a car, they were the upgraded brakes.

So the "Brembos" that come on the 2SS are just basic brakes with the Brembo name on them? So if you want "real" Brembos then you already have to upgrade. These should have been the brakes that came on the 2SS to begin with, this is bullshit!!! Brembo can suck it!

If I'm going to spend money to upgrade I'm not getting Brembos!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxJunkie View Post
Fail. The stock Brembos are great street brakes. Phenomenal, considering they're working against about 4000 lbs and 430hp. However, putting an unprepped car on the track and pushing it to 7/10ths+ and expecting factory stuff to work is just ridiculous. This is the same story with virtually all cars.

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 pads, some RGS610 or comparable fluid, maybe an aftermarket 2 piece rotor to dissipate heat, and you should be golden. Ducting if you've got a lot of HEAVY braking or you're just that good (or bad). The calipers have more than enough

People have to prep their Z06s, M3s, Vipers, and so on and so forth the same way. Stuff designed to work on the street usually doesn't work on the track and vice versa. Those pads I mentioned? GARBAGE on the street. Great on the track. Changing pads on the Brembos is a breeze too. You can do it at the track before you go out, and swap them back to drive home. Have to rebed your street pads after, but that's not an issue for someone who wants to track-day their car.
I can't believe I'm going to disagree with SSOOCH and agree with "Mr. You're gonna get wheelhop".

I have the car. I also have an LS1 to compare it to. There is a night and day difference between the two. The brakes on my 2001 LS1 are similar to what you get on today's Mustang GT.

The stock Brembo brakes on this car are unbelievable! They may not be Brembo's top of the line but do they really need to be? Put it this way, when I have to make a sudden stop on the highway at 70 MPH (done it), I don't worry about hitting the guy in front of me, I worry about the guy behind me running into my ass.

Those mega piston calipers shown here are what should be offered on a Z (should it come out). BTW - wanna get a Vette guy ticked off? Park next to a C5 Z06 and compare the rear brakes.....
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:41 PM   #92
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That's a really good look I like the drilled rotars they really make the car even more sexier then it already is.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:44 PM   #93
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I don't mean to sling mud, but for the price for the front only as stated in the first post, a set of carbon ceramic disk brakes are possible.

The 4th Gen kit with Porsche 996 calipers and a set of carbon ceramic rotors were in the $4500 range.

To be fair, I don't remember the size of the rotors, but it shouldn't be double the price to add and extra inch of rotor diameter...
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:51 AM   #94
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I don't mean to sling mud, but for the price for the front only as stated in the first post, a set of carbon ceramic disk brakes are possible.

The 4th Gen kit with Porsche 996 calipers and a set of carbon ceramic rotors were in the $4500 range.

To be fair, I don't remember the size of the rotors, but it shouldn't be double the price to add and extra inch of rotor diameter...
Last time I checked a CC set of brakes for this car was in the 15K range. Of course there are probably cheaper ones.

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it's not a WD-40 problem, so it's got to be a duct tape problem
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #95
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these brakes are for every day driving not racing. if you look at the manual on page 8-7, it says that for competitive driving the brake fluid should be changed for a higher temp brake fluid....
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxJunkie View Post
Fail. The stock Brembos are great street brakes. Phenomenal, considering they're working against about 4000 lbs and 430hp. However, putting an unprepped car on the track and pushing it to 7/10ths+ and expecting factory stuff to work is just ridiculous. This is the same story with virtually all cars.

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 pads, some RGS610 or comparable fluid, maybe an aftermarket 2 piece rotor to dissipate heat, and you should be golden. Ducting if you've got a lot of HEAVY braking or you're just that good (or bad). The calipers have more than enough

People have to prep their Z06s, M3s, Vipers, and so on and so forth the same way. Stuff designed to work on the street usually doesn't work on the track and vice versa. Those pads I mentioned? GARBAGE on the street. Great on the track. Changing pads on the Brembos is a breeze too. You can do it at the track before you go out, and swap them back to drive home. Have to rebed your street pads after, but that's not an issue for someone who wants to track-day their car.
In your opinion, would the stock brakes, with upgraded pads, lines, and fluids be sufficient for drag racing applications- thought I would ask because when you say "track" I'm assuming you mean in autocross type of events in this case.
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Old 07-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #97
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4250 for the front and 3395 for the rear?! thats retail im guessing. i can get it cheaper thn that. looks good.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:35 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by SSOOCH View Post
I can't believe I'll be the first to say this. This is complete B.S!! I thought when you got Brembo's on a car, they were the upgraded brakes.

So the "Brembos" that come on the 2SS are just basic brakes with the Brembo name on them? So if you want "real" Brembos then you already have to upgrade. These should have been the brakes that came on the 2SS to begin with, this is bullshit!!! Brembo can suck it!

If I'm going to spend money to upgrade I'm not getting Brembos!!
You're getting carried away.

Your car comes with real Brembo brakes. Same ones you'd get on an STi, Evo, GT500, CTS-V, ect. They are 2 piece aluminum calipers. They are not "basic brakes" at all. Standard cars come with 1 or 2 piston sliding calipers, made of either cast iron or aluminum.

They are MORE than adequate for street duty and normal track use. You would only need to upgrade if you were getting into some seriously competitive road racing with engine mods and higher speeds.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:51 PM   #99
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In your opinion, would the stock brakes, with upgraded pads, lines, and fluids be sufficient for drag racing applications- thought I would ask because when you say "track" I'm assuming you mean in autocross type of events in this case.
For 'drag' style like quarter mile yes they would be fine, if doing only two or three runs

For anything else, or if you are doing multiple hot laps then no, I would at the least look at upgrading the rotors to 2pc racing style of the same diameter as stock, maybe higher temp pads. If you were into serious racing, closed course or autocross then I would go with the caliper upgrades as well as larger 2pc rotors.

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it's not a WD-40 problem, so it's got to be a duct tape problem
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:26 AM   #100
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For 'drag' style like quarter mile yes they would be fine, if doing only two or three runs

For anything else, or if you are doing multiple hot laps then no, I would at the least look at upgrading the rotors to 2pc racing style of the same diameter as stock, maybe higher temp pads. If you were into serious racing, closed course or autocross then I would go with the caliper upgrades as well as larger 2pc rotors.

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They would last way longer than 2 or 3 runs. In drag racing you're doing ONE high speed stop and then have plenty of time for them to cool off. These brakes, stock will last all day long at the drag strip. Upgrading these brakes for Autocross would take you out of stock class which is stupid unless you plan a lot of other upgrades. These brakes are perfectly fine for autocross there are rarely ever any high speed stops. They will be fine even at national level.

Fluid and pad material (not rotors, but you can do them too if you wanna go overboard) are all the upgrades that are needed for basic racing (drag, autox) and HPDEs. Calipers mentioned here are if you plan to go any further.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:54 PM   #101
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You come all the way up here and dont say hi?
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:29 PM   #102
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It's awesome you were chosen for the prototype, but sadly this is one upgrade i would NEVER consider doing. The stock ones are good enough to handle higher speeds that horsepower gaining mods would provide. I would rather spend a few grand more and send my car to hennessey for the 570 package( which im considering doing once I get my car).
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