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Old 11-14-2013, 08:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver85IrocZ View Post
Why not suspend the ZL1 as well.
arent they the same tires just different
rear size.
i wondered this earlier when i saw
this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffman View Post
ZL1 are suspended read the OP post it says it all over the info.....
+1.

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Originally Posted by Milkdudd View Post
1LE's should come standard with a high quality three season performance tire, then offer the current tire as a no cost "track tire" option. Who could possibly argue with that? Now let the "you just don't get what this car is all about" tidal wave begin.
If you know it's going to come...then you know why...and I'll spare my fingers the effort of typing it out.

Perhaps if they made it easier/cheaper to purchase accessory wheels & winter tires, this might not need to occur...but the # of people willing to buy those wheels and tires for any more than a grand (which is impractical) is slim to none, I'll bet.

At the end of the day, while they might be doing this from a legal standpoint of avoiding lawsuits...they are also concerned for driver safety...and vehicle quality.

Camaro team doesn't want a car shipped that has cracked tires, or flat-spots...nor do they want people getting their high performnace car...risk not being told with the appropriate stress that these tires are dangerous in extremely cold temperatures...and wrecking their brand new cars....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trex_47e View Post
Me too..... They will either get built and ship, or get built and sit there.
I could be wrong.....but I don't think they're going to sit on any of them...the cold temps can damage the tires in extreme circumstances...If I were GM (and I'm not)...I'd put the entire car (1LE and ZL1) on an artificial constraint...causing them not to be built until the resume date...
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:09 PM   #52
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I hope time flies for you. I know you've been waiting forever.



I don't see why they can't just cover the tires somehow.
Now that it's November, It's only a few months away...it will go fast...and like people keep saying, it will be worth the wait
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:09 AM   #53
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yep... it's that time of year again!
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:28 AM   #54
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All the more time to study the DIY section and plan your mods!!
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:37 AM   #55
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Because the Goodyear's allow those cars to perform as well as they do. Switching to another tire might let people go to the grocery store in winter...but it wouldn't perform the way they want it to on the track: which is why they are designed and built.
Michelins do fine on the new Corvette. My guess is they get the Goodyears for less money.

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Old 11-15-2013, 06:41 AM   #56
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Has anybody brought up the fact that there are already cars sitting on dealers lots in cold climates? Why's it any different if they set in the cold in Canada or any one of the northern states. Cold is cold. We've had below freezing temp here for a while now and I don't see any dealers around here bringing their ZL1s or 1LEs in out of the cold.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:44 AM   #57
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When we get Escalades that are going to get RPO wheels installed they are shipped with 22 inch steel wheels that are for transport only. We ship those wheels and tires back to the factory once the RPO wheels have been installed.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #58
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Has anybody brought up the fact that there are already cars sitting on dealers lots in cold climates? Why's it any different if they set in the cold in Canada or any one of the northern states. Cold is cold. We've had below freezing temp here for a while now and I don't see any dealers around here bringing their ZL1s or 1LEs in out of the cold.
Since when do most dealers do the right thing?
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:37 AM   #59
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Michelins do fine on the new Corvette. My guess is they get the Goodyears for less money.

Michael
Nope just the right tire for the vehicle is why they do it hands down(.)
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
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Michelins do fine on the new Corvette. My guess is they get the Goodyears for less money.
Michael
That is true...but also a useless point. See below for detail,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffman View Post
Nope just the right tire for the vehicle is why they do it hands down(.)


A common mis-assumption with regards to OE development is that a tire will be good on any vehicle of any weight and any design so long as it's good on another regardless of similarity. That's just not true - or else there'd only end up being one tire manufacturer in the world.

They develop these cars for specific results. They use parts that get them those results. And in the case of the tires on the ZL1 and 1LE, they used a no-nonsense approach, similar to the entirety of the Z/28: They wanted the stickiest tire for this car on the track. Their initial testing and development led them to the Eagle G:2 Supercar.

That's not to say that that didn't also get a deal on them...or that other tires wouldn't perform better under different conditions. But none of that matters. No other tire apparently got them to the handling results that they wanted on the track.

Additionally, GM uses an internal TPC (tire production code) system...they develop a car to achieve specific results with specific tires, and assign a number to that combination of car & tire. This ensures that customers can replace their tires with exactly the same brand, size, shape, and compound that they engineered from the factory.

Different strokes for different folks - if handling performance at 10/10ths isn't as important to you as not sliding around in sub 40º temperatures, that's totally fine...but it doesn't mean that's what the Camaro Team was after.

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Has anybody brought up the fact that there are already cars sitting on dealers lots in cold climates? Why's it any different if they set in the cold in Canada or any one of the northern states. Cold is cold. We've had below freezing temp here for a while now and I don't see any dealers around here bringing their ZL1s or 1LEs in out of the cold.
My local dealer has a storage lot where they have built a climate-controlled barn for their performance vehicles during the winter time. But....this guy is a big-time dealer. 5th for volume in the US, I believe....

I think this is a case of Team Camaro choosing to do whats right over the aspects of production & sales they have direct control over. Dealers are informed that the tires have specific care considerations...wether or not they do anything with that information is up to them...
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:10 PM   #61
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Ordered! 2014 Summit White 1SS 1LE, NPP, Recaros, Order# RKRJZV

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Old 11-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #62
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^ That is freakin hilarious
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:27 PM   #63
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yea i missed it saying ZL1. ~
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:47 PM   #64
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Ordered! 2014 Summit White 1SS 1LE, NPP, Recaros, Order# RKRJZV

you're gonna love it
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:01 AM   #65
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My dealer told me that due to the hold on the builds my order might get picked up as soon as this coming week. He said if that's the case then I will get car in December. I plan on trailering it home, and then it goes in the garage.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:33 AM   #66
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My dealer told me that due to the hold on the builds my order might get picked up as soon as this coming week. He said if that's the case then I will get car in December. I plan on trailering it home, and then it goes in the garage.

I'm in the same boat by the time I get mine it will be dead winter and i will be trailering the car to my garage where it will sit until April... Or may like last year

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Old 11-17-2013, 05:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
That is true...but also a useless point. See below for detail,




A common mis-assumption with regards to OE development is that a tire will be good on any vehicle of any weight and any design so long as it's good on another regardless of similarity. That's just not true - or else there'd only end up being one tire manufacturer in the world.

They develop these cars for specific results. They use parts that get them those results. And in the case of the tires on the ZL1 and 1LE, they used a no-nonsense approach, similar to the entirety of the Z/28: They wanted the stickiest tire for this car on the track. Their initial testing and development led them to the Eagle G:2 Supercar.

That's not to say that that didn't also get a deal on them...or that other tires wouldn't perform better under different conditions. But none of that matters. No other tire apparently got them to the handling results that they wanted on the track.

Additionally, GM uses an internal TPC (tire production code) system...they develop a car to achieve specific results with specific tires, and assign a number to that combination of car & tire. This ensures that customers can replace their tires with exactly the same brand, size, shape, and compound that they engineered from the factory.

Different strokes for different folks - if handling performance at 10/10ths isn't as important to you as not sliding around in sub 40º temperatures, that's totally fine...but it doesn't mean that's what the Camaro Team was after.


My local dealer has a storage lot where they have built a climate-controlled barn for their performance vehicles during the winter time. But....this guy is a big-time dealer. 5th for volume in the US, I believe....

I think this is a case of Team Camaro choosing to do whats right over the aspects of production & sales they have direct control over. Dealers are informed that the tires have specific care considerations...wether or not they do anything with that information is up to them...
OK. Enjoy your Goodyears. I'll enjoy my Michelins. Easy enough.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #68
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Ordered! 2014 Summit White 1SS 1LE, NPP, Recaros, Order# RKRJZV



Good luck. I ordered one for the store last week and it has a 12/9 tpw. Hopefully they get shipped in December. GM did send a letter out last week stating that cars ordered before the deadline should get shipped out in December.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #69
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Good luck. I ordered one for the store last week and it has a 12/9 tpw. Hopefully they get shipped in December. GM did send a letter out last week stating that cars ordered before the deadline should get shipped out in December.
My dealer did say something about that but he didn't want to say for sure.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post

I think this is a case of Team Camaro choosing to do whats right over the aspects of production & sales they have direct control over. Dealers are informed that the tires have specific care considerations...wether or not they do anything with that information is up to them...
This is another way of saying that once it gets to the dealer's lot, GM doesn't care what happens to it.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:02 PM   #71
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This is another way of saying that once it gets to the dealer's lot, GM doesn't care what happens to it.
Nooo.....GM has no control once it's on the lot - please, don't mistake my meaning.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #72
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Nooo.....GM has no control once it's on the lot - please, don't mistake my meaning.
They could control it if they really wanted to. They could sell these cars to dealers that have the proper means to store them in the winter or ones who are in climates that don't get cold enough to cause a problem. GM controls a lot of what dealers can and can't do. My friend just had to go through a very extensive remodel because GM told him that he pretty much had to in order to keep selling GM vehicles. I'm not trying to argue, but I find it funny that it isn't okay for cars to sit in the cold in Canada but on the other hand, it doesn't matter if they sit in the cold everywhere else. I can take you to any dealership in a 100 mile radius of where I live and show you ZL1s and 1LEs sitting on lots outside in cold weather. This is a safety matter that the manufacturer should be making the dealers comply with.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #73
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They could control it if they really wanted to. They could sell these cars to dealers that have the proper means to store them in the winter or ones who are in climates that don't get cold enough to cause a problem. GM controls a lot of what dealers can and can't do. My friend just had to go through a very extensive remodel because GM told him that he pretty much had to in order to keep selling GM vehicles. I'm not trying to argue, but I find it funny that it isn't okay for cars to sit in the cold in Canada but on the other hand, it doesn't matter if they sit in the cold everywhere else. I can take you to any dealership in a 100 mile radius of where I live and show you ZL1s and 1LEs sitting on lots outside in cold weather. This is a safety matter that the manufacturer should be making the dealers comply with.
You've been here since 2009....you know the strict limitations franchise laws place on an OEM, to prevent them from interfering with the sales of cars. (Not arguing, either) I know they extensively stressed and informed dealers on the importance of taking care of the tires. I also think I know how GM can persuade dealers to renovate...this issue and that are somewhat different.

I know for sure they must have a plan in place that represents equity and a business case for distribution of allocation of cars to dealer. They look at things such as regional sales of a type of car by Chevy dealers, and competitors; they look at individual sales performance and volume to determine the spread. This plan must be in place and approved by the governing body well ahead of production...and I very much doubt that climate, or the availability of a heated storage property can be considered. The first - dealers have no control over...and the other - would require that a dealer spring for a heated storage space if they want to sell these cars which would put them at a forced competitive disadvantage to other dealers. State dealer organizations would have a field day....

I feel this decision is GM attempting to avoid those and any other legal issues...to do exactly what you're suggesting: preventing uncaring or incapable dealers from compromising the safety of these cars: by simply not building any.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:40 PM   #74
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Its all a ploy to free up line space for the Z.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:05 PM   #75
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You've been here since 2009....you know the strict limitations franchise laws place on an OEM, to prevent them from interfering with the sales of cars. (Not arguing, either) I know they extensively stressed and informed dealers on the importance of taking care of the tires. I also think I know how GM can persuade dealers to renovate...this issue and that are somewhat different.

I know for sure they must have a plan in place that represents equity and a business case for distribution of allocation of cars to dealer. They look at things such as regional sales of a type of car by Chevy dealers, and competitors; they look at individual sales performance and volume to determine the spread. This plan must be in place and approved by the governing body well ahead of production...and I very much doubt that climate, or the availability of a heated storage property can be considered. The first - dealers have no control over...and the other - would require that a dealer spring for a heated storage space if they want to sell these cars which would put them at a forced competitive disadvantage to other dealers. State dealer organizations would have a field day....

I feel this decision is GM attempting to avoid those and any other legal issues...to do exactly what you're suggesting: preventing uncaring or incapable dealers from compromising the safety of these cars: by simply not building any.
All I'm saying is that safety should trump all those things you are talking about. People will buy these cars that don't know any better, and when they are seen sitting on a lot on a 20 degree day, what's going to make them know any better. I just keep coming back to the fact that that GM is taking it serious enough to stop production of these cars during cold months ,but yet they sit on lots at dealers in the cold. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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