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Old 11-26-2013, 05:12 PM   #1
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Full Cradle Bushings vs. Cradle Bushing inserts?

Before I spend 160$ on some inserts, I wanted to know if they will work for what I'm trying to accomplish. I have the power to make it into the mid 11's, but not the suspension setup. The car is a Daily Driver, so obviously I don't want a lot of NVH (already have the cam as NVH lol), but I also don't want to waste money on something that won't help me with my ultimate goal. I understand that inserts are better than just the OEM units by themselves, but what do you guys recommend? I am not an avid drag racer. I may go to the track 2-3 times a year If I feel like it.

BTW, I already have BMR sways, BMR Trailing arms with the outer bushings, and just ordered BMR toe rods today.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:27 PM   #2
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I'm going to install the solid subframe bushings from Pfadt in my daily driver, and be done with it (although this approach is a bit more pricey than inserts). I have seen many posts from people who have these solid Pfadt bushings in a daily driver and yet don't see a significant increase in NVH (if any).
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:57 PM   #3
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Pedder's says inserts are good up to 500hp, after that go full bushing.

You're right on the cusp, inserts are a much easier install and cheaper and do provide alot more support- but not as much as a full bushing.

One thing's for sure with 2010 models- you need something in the subframe to tighten things up! You will feel a difference.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ventmaster View Post
Pedder's says inserts are good up to 500hp, after that go full bushing.

You're right on the cusp, inserts are a much easier install and cheaper and do provide alot more support- but not as much as a full bushing.

One thing's for sure with 2010 models- you need something in the subframe to tighten things up! You will feel a difference.
So do you think I should go with Inserts for right now, and then later down the road switch to a full bushing? That's what I'm contemplating right now. I also plan on doing RUCA bushings as well. Just trying to get this thing to hook. Couldn't stop wheel hopping at the track last weekend.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:07 PM   #5
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Just trying to get this thing to hook. Couldn't stop wheel hopping at the track last weekend.
Stronger rear trailing arms and tie rods are also helpful for addressing wheel hop.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:07 PM   #6
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I've done the Pedders inserts in my 2010 SS. Granted, that decision was made over a year before I did any performance upgrades. The inserts did make a big difference with the feel of the car, but no real change in road noise.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMWNERW View Post
Stronger rear trailing arms and tie rods are also helpful for addressing wheel hop.
Yep, I already have BMR trailing arms, and ordered BMR toe rods this morning (at the bottom of my first post, lol). I found out though, they are good at addressing wheel hop at "Bolt on" levels, but after that, you need a combination of bushings,arms, rods, and tires to really eliminate "wheel hop". I'm not saying the trailing arms didn't help me last weekend, but when I shifted second gear, I had to let out of it a few times to avoid breaking something.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:15 PM   #8
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I am very happy with my inserts but I'm sure many V8 guys will tell you they're not enuff. I think they provide the best compromise between control and ride quality. (my car's putting 400hp to the ground)

To control your hop you're gonna have to get some new trailing arms and toe rods I'm afraid, but they are also worth the cost and an easy DIY!

There are many options on the brand trailing arms, but be sure to upgrade the outside bushing too, and Chevy upgraded the toe rods for the ZL1 and it will bolt right into your car with no problems. Check with your local dealer- the cost is surprisingly low!
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ventmaster View Post
I am very happy with my inserts but I'm sure many V8 guys will tell you they're not enuff. I think they provide the best compromise between control and ride quality. (my car's putting 400hp to the ground)

To control your hop you're gonna have to get some new trailing arms and toe rods I'm afraid, but they are also worth the cost and an easy DIY!

There are many options on the brand trailing arms, but be sure to upgrade the outside bushing too, and Chevy upgraded the toe rods for the ZL1 and it will bolt right into your car with no problems. Check with your local dealer- the cost is surprisingly low!
Yall are killing me, LOL.

The bottom of my post already stated that I have BMR trailing Arms WITH outer Trailing Arm bushings.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #10
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:20 PM   #11
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Hey this forum's for motorheads, LOL. You're lucky we can type!!!
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:33 PM   #12
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If I'm going to go through the trouble of dropping the cradle I would just go ahead and put full bushings in. You've got it dropped just go ahead and heat the cradle up with a Lowes propane torch and push them out with a socket and floor jack. That's what I did.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo White View Post
If I'm going to go through the trouble of dropping the cradle I would just go ahead and put full bushings in. You've got it dropped just go ahead and heat the cradle up with a Lowes propane torch and push them out with a socket and floor jack. That's what I did.
Do you have a DIY thread, or know of a good one?
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:04 PM   #14
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Get whiteline bushings. Cheaper then others and high durameter
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:01 PM   #15
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As I said in our PM's, Full bushings are a must at your power level. There is not much NVH transmitted by the solid bushings, but the movement they prevent/stop is crazy.

I know most have seen this video, but to this day, it's probably the best demonstration of deflection in the suspension I have seen.



Do it once, do it right; go with Pfadt.

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Old 11-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #16
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Hey this forum's for motorheads, LOL. You're lucky we can type!!!
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:31 PM   #17
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Damn Tyler. Something else I can't afford but want (and probably need)...
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:47 PM   #18
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That video definitely makes me a believer. That price is up there though. I'm gonna work on the Toe rods and UCAs and then eventually work my way to the cradle bushings. So many parts I need! LOL.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:49 AM   #19
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Just drop the cradle down far enough for a socket to go between the bushing and frame. Heat the cradle around the bushing until it starts to melt the plastic and then jack up the cradle and push the bushing out.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Just drop the cradle down far enough for a socket to go between the bushing and frame. Heat the cradle around the bushing until it starts to melt the plastic and then jack up the cradle and push the bushing out.
Exactly! If you contact JusticePete from Pedders or do a search there are great DIY's of this! I agree with Tyler, do it right and do full bushings! I had BMR inserts and was never happy with them, I could still feel the rear end moving around! I went with Pedders full bushings and it made a big difference! Stick with the top 2 brands also, Pedders or Pfadt, I've seen others fail under hard road course work!
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #21
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What's the difference between the Pedders EP1201 and the Pfadt full bushings?

Pedders:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings

Pfadt:
http://store.pfadtracing.com/2010-ca...rame-bushings/

Based on price, it looks like the Pfadt is more in-line with the Pedders HD version:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings
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Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

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Old 11-27-2013, 11:20 AM   #22
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I would definitely recommend the full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings for your power level. Our BMR full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings (BK024) would be very good option for you that is very affordable and will perform well for you at your current power level and if you decide to make more power in the future. We have these same rear cradle bushings installed in many cars that drag race and autocross so they will be up to the task of handling pretty much anything you can throw at them.

Also we are staring our Black Friday/Cyber Monday Sale today so you can order these parts and get 15% off and free shipping. If there is anything we can help you out with let us know.

BMR full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings (BK024)
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
What's the difference between the Pedders EP1201 and the Pfadt full bushings?

Pedders:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings

Pfadt:
http://store.pfadtracing.com/2010-ca...rame-bushings/

Based on price, it looks like the Pfadt is more in-line with the Pedders HD version:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings
Yes I believe the Pfadt solids are on the same level as the pedders HD high durometer urethane bushings. I have the EP1201's installed and they are perfect for HPDE and autocross. The HD's and solids I would think are more for serious race applications.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #24
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I called Kyle and he took care of me on these exact ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
I would definitely recommend the full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings for your power level. Our BMR full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings (BK024) would be very good option for you that is very affordable and will perform well for you at your current power level and if you decide to make more power in the future. We have these same rear cradle bushings installed in many cars that drag race and autocross so they will be up to the task of handling pretty much anything you can throw at them.

Also we are staring our Black Friday/Cyber Monday Sale today so you can order these parts and get 15% off and free shipping. If there is anything we can help you out with let us know.

BMR full poly-urethane rear cradle bushings (BK024)
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS3 SS View Post
That video definitely makes me a believer. That price is up there though. I'm gonna work on the Toe rods and UCAs and then eventually work my way to the cradle bushings. So many parts I need! LOL.
I would strongly recommend doing both at the same time if you can swing it. There is a TON of overlapping labor and IMO they should really be done at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
What's the difference between the Pedders EP1201 and the Pfadt full bushings?

Pedders:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings

Pfadt:
http://store.pfadtracing.com/2010-ca...rame-bushings/

Based on price, it looks like the Pfadt is more in-line with the Pedders HD version:
http://www.peddersusa.com/product/Ca...radle-Bushings
Polyurethane vs a Solid aluminum piece. Polyurethane is not bad for bolt-on to mild cammed cars, but for anything close to 500 RWHP+ I recommend the solid aluminum bushings. They will last longer and secure the rear cradle better than polyurethane ever will.

Best regards,

Tyler
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