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Old 08-30-2014, 11:16 PM   #1
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Arrow Purpose Built Road Course LS7 Camaro [COTW 1/19/15]

I've been running a lot of road courses in my L99, and really enjoyed installing my TVS2300 in my garage around Christmas 2012. The increase in HP was amazing - like driving a whole new car. I subsequently did a lot to help with heat (hex vents, splitter, big oil cooler) but still found my oil near or above 300 degrees after 20-25 minutes when I was running hard on VIR in the summer. Last time I was there in early July, I could only hit 135 on the back stretch, when I usually can hit 145. Was starting to think maybe I should stick to spring and fall track events.

Went to Summit Point two weeks ago and 5 laps out knew something was wrong. (see thread : http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374324). I limped home. Then, I blew my engine trying to diagnose the problem.

The funny thing was, I had been talking to JusticePete over the summer about possibly getting a new engine. He's with Arrington Performance now. Arrington makes race engines. I went down to tour their manufacturing facility a few months back (about 45 minutes from VIR, in Martinsville VA) and was incredibly impressed. You would not believe the equipment they have, and what they can create. I griped about how heavy my car was in the nose with the supercharger in there, how I was always fighting heat, etc. Pete suggested they build me something based on an LS7 block (dry sump 427). I drooled.

So, when the L99 went (will know more next week about exactly what was busted inside), it was like a message from Fate: GET YOUR CAR TO ARRINGTON. I called a guy with a flatbed, coaxed the car on, and we headed for Martinsville. It's in the shop now while Pete and his guys put together a plan that gets me a 550-600 RWHP LS7. Will post more details as we go.

At the same time I have been thinking hard about stripping weight out of the car. Last time at Summit Point I ran without rear seats, seat belt anchors, and took out a bunch of plastic from the trunk and the rear seat area. Kinda loud but I like it. I might go further and strip the interior, and just leave my Kirkeys and cage in full time. Not really sure on that yet. Will see.

Anyhow, will post details on the build as it goes. I cannot wait to see what Arrington comes up with
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:08 AM   #2
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Thank you for placing your trust in Arrington and me. I'll post pictures as we move through the build process.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:52 PM   #3
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That's the good and the bad of boost. The crappy thing for us roadies is it takes a lot more money to make big power NA so you have to be prepared for the sticker shock. I think an LS7 build will be pretty awesome. Keep us posted on the progress.
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Thank you for placing your trust in Arrington and me. I'll post pictures as we move through the build process.
You bet! This is going to rock.

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Originally Posted by tadams72 View Post
That's the good and the bad of boost. The crappy thing for us roadies is it takes a lot more money to make big power NA so you have to be prepared for the sticker shock. I think an LS7 build will be pretty awesome. Keep us posted on the progress.
I have no delusions about price. It's gonna cost. And when it's done, I know it's not going to be a Z/28... but given how much I already have in customizing my car, I am willing to bet that a built LS7 will put me close to the same league, for a LOT less than the difference between selling my car and buying a $80k Z/28.

I already regularly get the Vette Grand Sport guys coming over between runs and asking what I have under the hood after I have blown past them. With an LS7, this will be like the ultimate track sleeper...

Pete
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:48 PM   #5
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You bet! This is going to rock.



I have no delusions about price. It's gonna cost. And when it's done, I know it's not going to be a Z/28... but given how much I already have in customizing my car, I am willing to bet that a built LS7 will put me close to the same league, for a LOT less than the difference between selling my car and buying a $80k Z/28.

I already regularly get the Vette Grand Sport guys coming over between runs and asking what I have under the hood after I have blown past them. With an LS7, this will be like the ultimate track sleeper...

Pete
Good feeling to be on the track in a "muscle car" and handing the high end sports car some of their backside. of course there is always someone a little faster but fun to be that guy once in awhile. I was doing the same until I floated a valve into a piston last December on Streets of Willow. Now the car sits while I make up my mind on how to proceed. Going to be a stroker but LS7 is out of my price range.

Good luck on the build and make those guys take lots of pictures and provide updates. I think it is also appropriate that Justice Pete make the handling a little better to go along with the new found NA power!

Travis
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:51 PM   #6
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Good feeling to be on the track in a "muscle car" and handing the high end sports car some of their backside. of course there is always someone a little faster but fun to be that guy once in awhile. I was doing the same until I floated a valve into a piston last December on Streets of Willow. Now the car sits while I make up my mind on how to proceed. Going to be a stroker but LS7 is out of my price range.

Good luck on the build and make those guys take lots of pictures and provide updates. I think it is also appropriate that Justice Pete make the handling a little better to go along with the new found NA power!

Travis
Sorry to hear you had valve problems on yours. I hope you find a good solution.

I am sure not the fastest guy out there in the corners, and I have a lot to learn yet, no question about it. I've been working on adjusting my lines away from the generic line and towards a high horsepower line - so, on a big 180 degree corner, braking hard and going deep on the entry, cranking the wheel really hard and then getting right back on the gas to make a straightish line out. That's really different than the lighter cars that try to make a nice arc out of the whole thing. It's hell on the brakes but I have picked up at least a second on a corner when doing it that way.

Anyhow, am eagerly waiting to see what JusticePete's engineering group will recommend. I know we'll get lots of pics as things come together.
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:44 PM   #7
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Maaaaan, just as I was mentally preparing to pull the trigger on the SLP unit, I stumble across this thread
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:28 PM   #8
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Maaaaan, just as I was mentally preparing to pull the trigger on the SLP unit, I stumble across this thread
I have an idea where you could get a great deal on a forged LS3, SLP blower and the very cool SLP covers in about a month...
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:29 PM   #9
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I have an idea where you could get a great deal on a forged LS3, SLP blower and the very cool SLP covers in about a month...
I'm all ears (cigarette)!

Pm me if you think it's better.

Cost?
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:31 PM   #10
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I'm all ears (cigarette)!

Pm me if you think it's better.

Cost?
Won't know for sure until we open her up and see what condition everything is in. Give me a week or so.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:31 PM   #11
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Roger that.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:44 PM   #12
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SSOON, check out that museum thread of mine. how terrible and ironic that both our engines lasted and blew about the same time. my #7 intake spring broke. the valve dropped and it was over from there. i ordered a GMPP crate engine to swap in for the sept 26th four day event at the new track. my block is kinda ok. a lil scoring in #7. my guess is that we can clean it up, reuse the block and bottom end with new pistons and heads. this way ill have a spare if we need it for quick swap.
i got a stupid deal on this through my father in law. its an ls3 with asa cam and better stuff in the heads. its a sealed turn key GMPP product with 2 year warranty.

http://paceperformance.com/i-7739382...te-engine.html
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:44 PM   #13
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SSOON, check out that museum thread of mine. how terrible and ironic that both our engines lasted and blew about the same time. my #7 intake spring broke. the valve dropped and it was over from there. i ordered a GMPP crate engine to swap in for the sept 26th four day event at the new track. my block is kinda ok. a lil scoring in #7. my guess is that we can clean it up, reuse the block and bottom end with new pistons and heads. this way ill have a spare if we need it for quick swap.
i got a stupid deal on this through my father in law. its an ls3 with asa cam and better stuff in the heads. its a sealed turn key GMPP product with 2 year warranty.

http://paceperformance.com/i-7739382...te-engine.html
Boy does that sound familiar. Mine started with #7 intake spring also, and ended up taking out the whole motor. There have been too many of us losing motors in the last year or so. I went with a forged 415 ci with a medium cam to boost up the torque so I don't have to rev it so high. It really does pull a lot harder now in the lower revs and all the way up. I hope my thinking plays out. Now after blowing all of my play money fixing it, I need to save up so I can get back out on the track. Good luck fellas
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:12 PM   #14
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SSOON, check out that museum thread of mine. how terrible and ironic that both our engines lasted and blew about the same time. my #7 intake spring broke. the valve dropped and it was over from there. i ordered a GMPP crate engine to swap in for the sept 26th four day event at the new track. my block is kinda ok. a lil scoring in #7.
Hey Johnsonrod - I am so sorry that your engine bought it too! Don't have exact cause yet on what caused mine but the OBD device was showing in real time tons of misfires on #5 and #7 as it finally gave. I wonder if valve springs were at fault. Looks like you found a good solution - happy to hear that. Would love to compare builds when we are both done and back at the track. In the end heat soak was an issue for me that I wanted to solve. Remember me saying I could only get to 135 on the back stretch last time we were at VIR? Sucked.

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Boy does that sound familiar. Mine started with #7 intake spring also, and ended up taking out the whole motor. There have been too many of us losing motors in the last year or so. I went with a forged 415 ci with a medium cam to boost up the torque so I don't have to rev it so high. It really does pull a lot harder now in the lower revs and all the way up. I hope my thinking plays out. Now after blowing all of my play money fixing it, I need to save up so I can get back out on the track. Good luck fellas
#7 again! Holy crap. You're right, it sounds like it is becoming more common lately for road course guys. What kind of engine is your 415? What kind of power and torque does it make?
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:52 PM   #15
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpe-sp73/overview/
This is the one I went with. Forged parts that SHOULD last. This whole experience made me real gun shy on blowing a lot of money on something that can be taken out by something as simple as a valve spring. To be 415 I figure it has the stock bore which later on down the road if I wear it out instead of actually blowing a hole out the side of it, I can hone or bore and be good to go again. I looked into an LS7 and that would be considerably more expensive. I would have loved to have gone that route but too much for me.

As far as power goes its hard to say, my first engine with cam, heads, ported intake/TB, UDP, vararam cai, 1 7/8 LTs made 486 rwhp on dyno jet. The new 415 with a cam that has a little more duration but a little less lift and same everything else only made 463 rwhp on different mustang dyno. So that doesn't tell much but I can tell you it pulls MUCH harder. It especially feels stronger around town cruising in higher gears.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:56 PM   #16
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im quite certain that custom build will be strong and bullet proof. i picked up the crate engine because i was out of time. i blew it giving hot lap rides at the grand opening. dude, i had an awesome time at the track grand opening. i drove pace car for parade laps all day two days in a row in an old museum C4 corvette. i watched tommy milner n ricky taylor run the 4 car on track. milner was giving celebrity VIP rides. he sat and had a cool conversation with me about how the ctsv brakes bolt on the camaro. maybe he was being nice because he is supposed to but he just seemed like a real dude to me. i talked to jordan taylor on pit road while ricky was getting in the 4 car. he actually remembered him and ricky spanking our entire DP sim league. i qualified 3rd and jordan caught me like 15 laps into the race after not even qualifying.
anyway, after that dose of crack, the only question was, how can i get this car fixed by the 26th of sept. my wife ask me how you were taking your engine blowing. i told her "hes fine, hes already racing our engines we dont have in yet. she said, good ole pete. we will get these tanks turned around.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:12 PM   #17
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im quite certain that custom build will be strong and bullet proof. i picked up the crate engine because i was out of time. i blew it giving hot lap rides at the grand opening. dude, i had an awesome time at the track grand opening. i drove pace car for parade laps all day two days in a row in an old museum C4 corvette. i watched tommy milner n ricky taylor run the 4 car on track. milner was giving celebrity VIP rides. he sat and had a cool conversation with me about how the ctsv brakes bolt on the camaro. maybe he was being nice because he is supposed to but he just seemed like a real dude to me. i talked to jordan taylor on pit road while ricky was getting in the 4 car. he actually remembered him and ricky spanking our entire DP sim league. i qualified 3rd and jordan caught me like 15 laps into the race after not even qualifying.
anyway, after that dose of crack, the only question was, how can i get this car fixed by the 26th of sept. my wife ask me how you were taking your engine blowing. i told her "hes fine, hes already racing our engines we dont have in yet. she said, good ole pete. we will get these tanks turned around.
Sounds like an awesome time at the NCM event. Gonna have to make it down there some day, maybe next summer. 26th sept, huh? Has the engine arrived yet? I'm hoping my build is done by end of Sept so I can take a scenic trip through NC along the coast to Road Atlanta for a run there Oct 10-12.

Yeah, tell your sweetheart that I still have a lot to learn before I beat your lap times, but the LS7 might just help a bit
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #18
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpe-sp73/overview/
This is the one I went with. Forged parts that SHOULD last.

The new 415 with a cam that has a little more duration but a little less lift and same everything else only made 463 rwhp on different mustang dyno. So that doesn't tell much but I can tell you it pulls MUCH harder. It especially feels stronger around town cruising in higher gears.
Nice engine! Yeah, hard to really compare across different kinds of dynos. Hope you get to the track soon to test it out where it counts
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:49 AM   #19
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shoot you passed me two years ago. i am going to work on the driver mod with this track so close. i banged my right arm up at work so im gimped up for a week or two. the engine is in my garage and my right arm is in a sling.
im going to tinker with it this week and try to get a few guys over to help.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #20
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Sorry to hear of your engine failure. Wish for better things ahead Sure sounds like it will be with the LS7
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #21
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Root cause

Well, here we go. Looks like melted cats were root cause. I'll be damned if I can list any symptoms that I should have noticed that pointed to cats as the cause, though: no codes thrown (misfire, etc), no lugging or choking on acceleration, no rough idle, nothing. The only symptom set happened only at 5000 RPM at WOT: Stabilitrack going nuts, a rapid banging noise, and boot gauge suddenly going wild. All disappeared when I got off the gas.

I knew that even high flow cats are a risk with a supercharged engine, but thought that for sure I would have been able to feel a choking engine long before anything really bad happened. Kinda feel like an idiot, like I SHOULD have been to tell. Ah well.

I guess the other clue was last July at VIR when I could only hit 135 on the back stretch instead of 145. But it was high 90's and end of the day, so I figured heat soak...
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:10 PM   #22
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You learned and will know the next time and it cost less than a semester of higher learning at a prestigious university ;-)
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:12 PM   #23
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Incredible. But good to know. I'll learn from this when I go SC.
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:53 PM   #24
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So what damage have you found to the engine itself from that?

And yes, good to know about being SC!
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Old 09-08-2014, 04:05 PM   #25
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Going to have to check the Cats. Last time had them off was app 1k( they were fine maybe should have left them off) Before Engine Failure without warning somewhere between 4500-5000k that I remember.
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