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Old 12-06-2013, 09:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by RubberChicken View Post
Hold on... so from what I understand, there is a difference between "deliveries" and "sales"? The deliveries graphs show Mustang ahead month over month, but the first sales chart shows on average Camaro ahead of Mustang. What's the difference? Are deliveries the number of cars going to dealers while sales = customers?

Camaro: YTD 75552/11= 6868 average per month 2013
Mustang:YTD 71459/11= 6496 average per month 2013
No matter how many months Mustang has been ahead of Camaro. It is enough Camaro sales one month is ahead of Mustang with big gap.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:00 AM   #27
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I think after Dec. 5th, we'll start seeing a slight uptick in volume for Camaros.

Funny you say that! I just traded in my '13 v6 for a '14 2SS/RS on Dec. 5th . The dealership only had 2 or 3 '14 models, but all of them were higher-end fully loaded SS's.

If you don't like the refresh, it's your loss. I get so many thumbs up, I think the public loves it. I didn't get nearly the response with the '13 but it wasn't loud with the Dual Mode V8 exhaust either.

Anyway, they seemed to REALLY want my '13 and said they are flying off the lot used at $21k-$22k (I paid $25k and they gave me $20k for the trade in after only 11 months of ownership).
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #28
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Since you mentioned used prices I think it is funny this resale value thing as it is a double edged sword.

My friend is complaining that the resale value on the 5th generation Camaro is too high as used ones are still not in his price range. They got use to low resale value and was hoping that he could soon get a 5th Generation V-6 Camaro for less then $10,000. I did a search in my area and found a used 2010 LT Camaro with 52,000 miles on it for $18,000 still. This is a car that is in its 5th model year and values are still holding really strong, I believe LT Camaros were something like $26,000 new in 2010 (maybe $25,000). That would mean that with 52,000 miles this car has only lost $8,000 in value over a 5 year period. In other worfds after 5 years this car has retained 70% of its value......
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:32 PM   #29
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Since you mentioned used prices I think it is funny this resale value thing as it is a double edged sword.

My friend is complaining that the resale value on the 5th generation Camaro is too high as used ones are still not in his price range. They got use to low resale value and was hoping that he could soon get a 5th Generation V-6 Camaro for less then $10,000. I did a search in my area and found a used 2010 LT Camaro with 52,000 miles on it for $18,000 still. This is a car that is in its 5th model year and values are still holding really strong, I believe LT Camaros were something like $26,000 new in 2010 (maybe $25,000). That would mean that with 52,000 miles this car has only lost $8,000 in value over a 5 year period. In other worfds after 5 years this car has retained 70% of its value......
Its not so much Camaro thats retaiing its value its pretty much all used cars that are around 05 and up are maintaining a higher value than you would think. I see a lot of slightly used cars siting on lots next to new ones the exact same modle that will sell for cheaper with rebates than the used car.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #30
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Its not so much Camaro thats retaiing its value its pretty much all used cars that are around 05 and up are maintaining a higher value than you would think. I see a lot of slightly used cars siting on lots next to new ones the exact same modle that will sell for cheaper with rebates than the used car.
Not trying to be political, but I think the high used prices are due to the "Cash for Clunkers" program AND GM working to make sure the vehicles have a high residual value. High residual value means better leasing rates. You won't see GM "dumping" new cars to the fleet companies at heavy discounts just to get them sold like they did in the 90's.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:01 PM   #31
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It seems Ford wants to chase more females with the new car. Right now women are 26% of Mustang buyers this year, about flat for the past five years. It's 32% for rival Camaro, 27% for Dodge Challenge. Who knew?!?
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:51 AM   #32
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Its not so much Camaro thats retaiing its value its pretty much all used cars that are around 05 and up are maintaining a higher value than you would think. I see a lot of slightly used cars siting on lots next to new ones the exact same modle that will sell for cheaper with rebates than the used car.
It is true that used cars have been holding their values stronger lately, however resale value is relative. Compare the Gen 5 resale value to the Mustangs for example and you can see what I am talking about. There are many factors involved in a vehicles resale value, one comes down to incentives.... all of those people who were able to get a killer deal on a Mustang hurts the resale value. A higher percentage of fleet sales can be an indicator of lower demand new which often carries over to the used car market.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:54 AM   #33
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Not trying to be political, but I think the high used prices are due to the "Cash for Clunkers" program AND GM working to make sure the vehicles have a high residual value. High residual value means better leasing rates. You won't see GM "dumping" new cars to the fleet companies at heavy discounts just to get them sold like they did in the 90's.
Higher value for used cars in the short term around cash for clunkers yea you can give credit to that program. However long term it probably has more to do with an economy that is still weak and higher demand then normal for used cars at lower prices.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:33 AM   #34
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These figures do not surprise me.. The slanted nose looks like an IROC 88 and most enthusiast are responding to GMs change to something too radical. the 2010-2013 looks closer to a true muscle car..

Just my two cents.. lets see if they continue to drop as the GM rocket scientist continue on this Euro path to slopped noses and loss sales..
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:06 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by dgriddick View Post
These figures do not surprise me.. The slanted nose looks like an IROC 88 and most enthusiast are responding to GMs change to something too radical. the 2010-2013 looks closer to a true muscle car..

Just my two cents.. lets see if they continue to drop as the GM rocket scientist continue on this Euro path to slopped noses and loss sales..
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by dgriddick View Post
These figures do not surprise me.. The slanted nose looks like an IROC 88 and most enthusiast are responding to GMs change to something too radical. the 2010-2013 looks closer to a true muscle car..

Just my two cents.. lets see if they continue to drop as the GM rocket scientist continue on this Euro path to slopped noses and loss sales..
Do you even understand basic math? 14% improvement in sales compared to last year is not a drop.

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Old 12-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #37
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Do you even understand basic math? 14% improvement in sales compared to last year is not a drop.

Agreed! Even if it was a real drop compared to last year, you can't determine the refresh a failure after only 2 months of sales. There are a lot of other factors to consider like what rebates is GM putting out vs. Ford and Dodge.

Next year will be the real test. Can the much debated 2014 Camaro refresh hold it's lead over the all new Mustang?
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #38
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Next year will be the real test. Can the much debated 2014 Camaro refresh hold it's lead over the all new Mustang?
Well it will probably a little later than that, 2015 Mustangs won't in dealer showrooms until fall or late 2014. The 2014 model year Mustang is gonna be a long one with the Flat Rock plant cranking out '14 Mustangs another few months.

Interestingly enough back in 2004 a similar situation happened with 2004's selling surprisingly well till the 2005's arrived at dealers and then 2005 model year sales took off.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:20 AM   #39
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Agreed! Even if it was a real drop compared to last year, you can't determine the refresh a failure after only 2 months of sales. There are a lot of other factors to consider like what rebates is GM putting out vs. Ford and Dodge.

Next year will be the real test. Can the much debated 2014 Camaro refresh hold it's lead over the all new Mustang?
We know nothing about the new Mustang (on the technical side of things) and the 2014 Camaro really didn't see a performance increase. If the new Mustang is indeed 200 pounds lighter then the 2014 Mustang then it has amazing potential. Hell even if they are the same weight with an IRS they will have amazing potential, really though most consumers look at the design and make their choice based on that.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:42 AM   #40
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Agreed! Even if it was a real drop compared to last year, you can't determine the refresh a failure after only 2 months of sales. There are a lot of other factors to consider like what rebates is GM putting out vs. Ford and Dodge.

Next year will be the real test. Can the much debated 2014 Camaro refresh hold it's lead over the all new Mustang?
You would also have to consider how many sales last November were left over 2012's. I am sure that as each month progresses less leftovers will go into the mix.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:56 PM   #41
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It's all about the incentives, which GM is slow to hand out..
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Enator View Post
Camaro: YTD 75552/11= 6868 average per month 2013
Mustang:YTD 71459/11= 6496 average per month 2013
No matter how many months Mustang has been ahead of Camaro. It is enough Camaro sales one month is ahead of Mustang with big gap.
I invite you to look at these charts. ;-)
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:24 PM   #43
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It seems Ford wants to chase more females with the new car. Right now women are 26% of Mustang buyers this year, about flat for the past five years. It's 32% for rival Camaro, 27% for Dodge Challenge. Who knew?!?
The 2015 Mustang will be the secretaries car all over again.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:32 PM   #44
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The 2015 Mustang will be the secretaries car all over again.
No lie, when i look at it I think the 15 is a chick car, but I wouldn't be ashamed to drive one. Around the time the 2016 Camaro hits dealer lots I'll be in the market for another car and I could see myself in another Mustang and I'm a man.
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