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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 07-18-2009, 10:18 PM   #1
ADM PERFORMANCE

 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #138
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DfW - Texas
Posts: 3,786
Hot air Intakes -By Kenne bell

WARNING: It's an accepted known fact that any engine makes more power on cold
air than hot air. Use of this product negatively alters the "cool air" design of the
stock OEM inlet system and instead inhales underhood "hot air." This device reduces
air density (HP and torque), increases the engines tendency to
knock/detonate/ping which can result in lost power and potential engine damage,
especially with superchargers or turbos. Not recommended for Kenne Bell
supercharger kits. Voids warranty.
Let's all sit back and take a deep breath of fresh air (cool air). Now, crawl under the hood of your vehicle, lay across the engine, close the hood over
you and take a deep breath of all that hot air from the radiator fan (160°-200°), engine (160°-220°) and headers (up to 1000°). Who the hell would do
that, you say? Well, when companies sell you a "cool air" kit with an exposed underhood filter that sucks in the same hot 200° air from that heat
soaked engine compartment, how do you think your engine likes all that hot power robbing air vs. theOEMfactory set up that inhales isolated ambient
70° fenderwell air? Then there's all that hot air the fan blows around. Remember the fan. It sucks hot air in off the hot radiator. Why do you think that for
the last 25 years every vehicle manufacturer on the planet avoids hot underhood air and fan wash like the plague and instead draws cool dense air
from the fenderwell, cowl or hood scoops?
We're not exactly inexperienced in this technology ourselves. Kenne Bell engineered and has sold thousands of functional RamAir/Cool Air kits for
the Mustang, Cobras, Buick GN's, Syclones, Dodges etc. They pull in cool air from the fenderwell, under the bumper or out of a hood scoop. In
contrast is the cheapie "cool air" kit gang who proceeds to eliminate all those expensive plastic molded hoses and fittings and "sticks" a filter onto the
end of a chrome or plastic pipe and calls it a "cool air," "cold air," "chiller," "hi-flo," or ??? kit.
It is, of course, your decision if you choose for your engine to suck in this hot underhood air with one of these over the counter or "custom" kits.
However, these things are not good for our superchargers and we not only don't recommend them, we are warning against the use of them. Look at
the facts. 10° of hotter air is equivalent to 1 psi of boost. That means the difference between the fenderwell ambient 70° system and the hot underhood
air temp can be an amazing 130° (200°-70°=130°) hotter. That 130° equates to about 13 psi of additional boost (13x10°=130°). So, you thought your
engine was only seeing the increased temperature of 100° from 10 psi boost (10x10°=100°).Wrong. It's 100°+130° or 230° plus the ambient. That's
the air temp of 23 psi boost! Surprised?Are you getting the picture yet?
The Kenne Bell supercharger - or any supercharger - doesn't like another 130° of air temp that is the fault of someone else's product. Neither does
your engine. As the old saying goes, ." Don't make those "cool air" kit problems Kenne Bell problems.We've
had our fill of these things. Lose those lame excuses for an inlet system. Our warranty is void if using one - and we can tell if you did.We apologize for
our frank unwavering approach, but the many warnings throughout our literature has failed to curb their use with our supercharger kits - and caused
Kenne Bell some expensive warranties.Try sending your supercharger repair bill to one of these "hot air" kit manufacturers and tell them their "hot air"
system killed your supercharger. Are these underhood filter kits any less liable than: 1. Tires that split or separate, 2. Wires that catch fire, 3. Sand
polluted oil, 4. Spark plug tips that fall off. I think not. There's no warning in the products. They are most certainly detrimental to engine performance. If
ANYONEdisagrees, get a magazine writer and let's do the tests.
"Don't make your problem my problem
FILTER FAN SHROUDS
Did you know that a dyno run with the hood open vs. closed with an underhood exposed filter can be 30HP.We ran this test for 2 different magazines.
Then there's the fan wash. Those who believe that "shrouds" actually solve the temperature problem must also believe in the tooth fairy. Shrouds may
help the mass air meter signal from being distorted and skewing the fuel delivery to your engine, but in no way do these metal shields magically
dissipate that hot underhood air. The hot air then enters the filter from the other side of the shroud.
Finally, there's the removed headlight with the filter behind it (in the hot engine compartment, of course). This is just another "hot air" system. It
remains underhood and blasted by hot fan air.At best, it's a hot air - cool air mixer at high vehicle speed as it does not - and cannot - pull in cool air.
Every engineer in the universe clearly understands the disadvantages of hot air and therefore designs their inlet systems to ingest cool dense air from
the fenderwell, cowl or hood. This is not rocket science. JUST SUPPLYYOUR SUPERCHARGER WITH COOLAIR 100% OF THE TIME. All Kenne
Bell supercharger kits connect to the stock cool air inlet system.We may also upgrade and/or offer an optional system for higher HPapplications.We
even offer some "all out" 5" racing systems. And we are not condemning cool air kit products that are designed to use cool air. Many of them are
functional and may be used with our kits.
The Kenne Bell Twin Screw Supercharger is essentially an air compressor and an air tank combined. That is why it is so potent and capable of
generating full instant boost at the flick of the throttle at any engine rpm. It's akin to an air hose (throttle) connected to the air tank (supercharger). The
handle (trigger) regulates the air flow (boost) into the engine. Engine rpm has little to do with the boost delivery. Boost is regulated with the gas pedal.
Abasic law of physics tell us that all air is heated when compressed, regardless of the supercharger or turbocharger type. To lower the superchargers
air temperature at idle and cruise, we rely on a bypass valve which "dumps" the hot compressed air in back of the throttle body where it is
"decompressed" and the temp is thereby lowered with the help of the cooler incoming ambient air flow through the throttle body. Unfortunately, at idle
and cruise, the throttle body is closed or barely open thereby allowing relatively little new cool air flow into the supercharger. So, the last thing on this
planet that our supercharger needs is more hot 200° air from those ridiculous, useless, power robbing underhood "hot air" systems. LOSETHEMand
use a 4" or 5" hose (depending onHPlevel) to pull cool air out of the fenderwell just like all the OEM's, racers and the knowledgeable do.
HEADLIGHT KITS
THE TWIN SCREW SUPERCHARGER
only
WARNING
WARRANTY IF THIS SUPERCHARGER IS USED
WITH A "HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET SYSTEM
VOID
"HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET KITS
sc-inst_misc\hotairwarning.cdr rev 03/30/05
Overheating your engine or supercharger will damage both. One has pistons - the other uses rotors. Both are aluminum and expand with
heat. An '03 Cobra test was recently run on our dyno comparing a fenderwell filter to an open filter with the hood OPEN and a huge fan
blowing on it to simulate 90 mph. The temperature difference was a whopping 45° hotter. Oops! An engines coolant temperature is
approximately 160°-200°. That is the temperature deemed "safe" by engineers for over 100 years. Obviously, higher temperatures should
be avoided because excess coolant temperature expands the pistons, thereby reducing the piston to bore clearance to a critical "0". The
piston then scores and/or seizes in the cylinders. Excessive heat will also cause the rotors to expand and score the supercharger case
and/or seize the rotors. Both are typically ruined because of the scoring and metal transfer. Never a pretty sight.
Needless to say, you wouldn't knowingly install some lame product or concept that increases your engine water temperature 130° to a
ridiculously hot 290° to 330° and cause your pistons to seize up and ruin your engine, to say nothing of the power loss from this hot air (1%
power loss for every 10°). Also, there's the increased potential for detonation and more engine damage. Oops!
Would you buy some kit that removes your engine fan? How about a "concept" that advises you to drain 50% of the engine coolant - or
spark plugs 6 heat ranges too hot? Of course you wouldn't. One would have to be totally and technically incompetent, ignorant or brain
dead to offer products or suggestions that destroy your engine - right? Wrong, they do - and these people create big problems for the
vehicle manufacturer and Kenne Bell. You would have no legitimate or ethical case for getting your engine warrantied by the factory. And
you can forget about those companies who sold or recommended those products paying the tab.
Your supercharged engine doesn't like it. So why destroy your Kenne Bell supercharger - and possibly your engine - with 130° hotter air
from one of these cheap HOTAIR UNDERHOOD OPEN FILTERS? "Hot Air" kits are akin to "interheaters" (the opposite of intercoolers).
Don't do it! Use a SEALED filter set up that pulls cool air from the fenderwell, cowl or hood. No underhood air allowed. No half ass baffles
either.
One more time.Avoid all who sell and promote these things for use with Kenne Bell supercharger kits. They obviously don't know, don't care
- or both. These products can destroy your supercharger and/or engine with "the hots." .
We recently ran a filter temperature comparison on Earl's 700HP 9 second Cobra. The hood was open with a high speed fan blowing cool
air into the front of the car. The dyno room temperature remained the same for both the fenderwell located cool air filter and the hot
underhood filter installed on the end of the mass air meter ("hot air" filter) located behind the headlight. However, even with the hood OPEN
and the fan blowing air over the top of the filter, temperature was 45° hotter with the filter sucking hoot underhood air off the end of the mass
air meter. That's the equivalent of approximately 4 psi of boost and a 4%HPloss. Read on.
Did you really believe that a cylindrical filter would magically not suck that bottom hot air from the headers, radiator, etc. and NOTmix it with
the "top cool air" at the filter top? Of course, the filter will average the "hot" and "cool" air, but it won't be as cool as the fenderwell air. That is
why everyOEMmanufacturer on the planet avoids hot exposed underhood filter designs. Now, if 10° is equivalent to a 1%drop inHP(that's
how you calibrate dynos), doesn't the 45° higher air tempREDUCEHPby 4.5%? Oops!
Where does your dyno tuner measure air temp? We've found that the best place to accurately increase air temp is at the entrance of the
supercharger. "One of the real dangers in running a test is you are bound to get data." So if you test on a dyno, use the SAE (Society of
Automotive Engineers) calibration for the particular weather conditions to insure accuracy, but you must test the RIGHTWAY and use the
correct temperature that your engine sees and not the temperature at some random location in the dyno room. The engine is not using the
air next to the dyno computer, is it?
It is not our desire to be critical of anyone or their test procedures. We are only pointing out a common variable in dyno testing that we at
Kenne Bell have found to effect test accuracy.
Note: Our supercharger rotors behave identically to pistons when overheated. The only difference is hotter air instead of hotter
water causes the failure. 130° is equivalent to the heat generated by another 13 psi of boost. Oops! Keep in mind that we can
easily determine if hot underhood air was the cause of the supercharger failure, just as an OEM can determine if his engine was
overheated.
And they void your warranty
 
HOW HOT AIR CAN DAMAGE YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
DOES YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE HAVE "THE HOTS?"
OPEN HOOD FILTER TEST ('03 Cobra)
AIR MIXING & AIR TEMP SENSOR LOCATION
RADIATOR
FAN
270
270
200
200
200
200
70
70
135
135
200
70
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
COOL FENDERWELL AIR
ISOLATION PLATE
70 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 135 AIR
NOTE: SUPERCHARGER AIR ASSUMED TO BE 200 DEG FROM
20 PSI BOOST (~10 DEG PER POUND OF BOOST) FOR
COMPARISON.
COOL AIR KIT
RADIATOR
FAN
400
400
200
200
200
200
200 200
200
200
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
HOT UNDERHOOD AIR
FENDERWELL
FILTER EXPOSED
TO HOT AIR AND
TURBULENT FAN
WASH
200 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 200 AIR
A 10 DEG RISE IN AIR CHARGE TEMP. RESULTS IN A 1% LOSS IN HP.
(example: 50 DEG = 5% = .05 x 300HP = 15HP)
THAT'S HOW THE WORLD CALIBRATES DYNOS FOR VARYING AMBIENT
TEMPERATURES. SAE IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED CONVERSION.
HOT AIR KIT
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:42 PM   #2
Crowley
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Drives: 2012 GT500
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: McKinney Texas
Posts: 3,770
Interesting read .... I have never followed the 2010 Camaro stock intake .. does it have a snorkel that goes into the fender well (like my 04 cobra one did)?

thanks,
Crowely
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:47 PM   #3
JJ2010

 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Smithfield,NC
Posts: 1,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
WARNING: It's an accepted known fact that any engine makes more power on cold
air than hot air. Use of this product negatively alters the "cool air" design of the
stock OEM inlet system and instead inhales underhood "hot air." This device reduces
air density (HP and torque), increases the engines tendency to
knock/detonate/ping which can result in lost power and potential engine damage,
especially with superchargers or turbos. Not recommended for Kenne Bell
supercharger kits. Voids warranty.
Let's all sit back and take a deep breath of fresh air (cool air). Now, crawl under the hood of your vehicle, lay across the engine, close the hood over
you and take a deep breath of all that hot air from the radiator fan (160°-200°), engine (160°-220°) and headers (up to 1000°). Who the hell would do
that, you say? Well, when companies sell you a "cool air" kit with an exposed underhood filter that sucks in the same hot 200° air from that heat
soaked engine compartment, how do you think your engine likes all that hot power robbing air vs. theOEMfactory set up that inhales isolated ambient
70° fenderwell air? Then there's all that hot air the fan blows around. Remember the fan. It sucks hot air in off the hot radiator. Why do you think that for
the last 25 years every vehicle manufacturer on the planet avoids hot underhood air and fan wash like the plague and instead draws cool dense air
from the fenderwell, cowl or hood scoops?
We're not exactly inexperienced in this technology ourselves. Kenne Bell engineered and has sold thousands of functional RamAir/Cool Air kits for
the Mustang, Cobras, Buick GN's, Syclones, Dodges etc. They pull in cool air from the fenderwell, under the bumper or out of a hood scoop. In
contrast is the cheapie "cool air" kit gang who proceeds to eliminate all those expensive plastic molded hoses and fittings and "sticks" a filter onto the
end of a chrome or plastic pipe and calls it a "cool air," "cold air," "chiller," "hi-flo," or ??? kit.
It is, of course, your decision if you choose for your engine to suck in this hot underhood air with one of these over the counter or "custom" kits.
However, these things are not good for our superchargers and we not only don't recommend them, we are warning against the use of them. Look at
the facts. 10° of hotter air is equivalent to 1 psi of boost. That means the difference between the fenderwell ambient 70° system and the hot underhood
air temp can be an amazing 130° (200°-70°=130°) hotter. That 130° equates to about 13 psi of additional boost (13x10°=130°). So, you thought your
engine was only seeing the increased temperature of 100° from 10 psi boost (10x10°=100°).Wrong. It's 100°+130° or 230° plus the ambient. That's
the air temp of 23 psi boost! Surprised?Are you getting the picture yet?
The Kenne Bell supercharger - or any supercharger - doesn't like another 130° of air temp that is the fault of someone else's product. Neither does
your engine. As the old saying goes, ." Don't make those "cool air" kit problems Kenne Bell problems.We've
had our fill of these things. Lose those lame excuses for an inlet system. Our warranty is void if using one - and we can tell if you did.We apologize for
our frank unwavering approach, but the many warnings throughout our literature has failed to curb their use with our supercharger kits - and caused
Kenne Bell some expensive warranties.Try sending your supercharger repair bill to one of these "hot air" kit manufacturers and tell them their "hot air"
system killed your supercharger. Are these underhood filter kits any less liable than: 1. Tires that split or separate, 2. Wires that catch fire, 3. Sand
polluted oil, 4. Spark plug tips that fall off. I think not. There's no warning in the products. They are most certainly detrimental to engine performance. If
ANYONEdisagrees, get a magazine writer and let's do the tests.
"Don't make your problem my problem
FILTER FAN SHROUDS
Did you know that a dyno run with the hood open vs. closed with an underhood exposed filter can be 30HP.We ran this test for 2 different magazines.
Then there's the fan wash. Those who believe that "shrouds" actually solve the temperature problem must also believe in the tooth fairy. Shrouds may
help the mass air meter signal from being distorted and skewing the fuel delivery to your engine, but in no way do these metal shields magically
dissipate that hot underhood air. The hot air then enters the filter from the other side of the shroud.
Finally, there's the removed headlight with the filter behind it (in the hot engine compartment, of course). This is just another "hot air" system. It
remains underhood and blasted by hot fan air.At best, it's a hot air - cool air mixer at high vehicle speed as it does not - and cannot - pull in cool air.
Every engineer in the universe clearly understands the disadvantages of hot air and therefore designs their inlet systems to ingest cool dense air from
the fenderwell, cowl or hood. This is not rocket science. JUST SUPPLYYOUR SUPERCHARGER WITH COOLAIR 100% OF THE TIME. All Kenne
Bell supercharger kits connect to the stock cool air inlet system.We may also upgrade and/or offer an optional system for higher HPapplications.We
even offer some "all out" 5" racing systems. And we are not condemning cool air kit products that are designed to use cool air. Many of them are
functional and may be used with our kits.
The Kenne Bell Twin Screw Supercharger is essentially an air compressor and an air tank combined. That is why it is so potent and capable of
generating full instant boost at the flick of the throttle at any engine rpm. It's akin to an air hose (throttle) connected to the air tank (supercharger). The
handle (trigger) regulates the air flow (boost) into the engine. Engine rpm has little to do with the boost delivery. Boost is regulated with the gas pedal.
Abasic law of physics tell us that all air is heated when compressed, regardless of the supercharger or turbocharger type. To lower the superchargers
air temperature at idle and cruise, we rely on a bypass valve which "dumps" the hot compressed air in back of the throttle body where it is
"decompressed" and the temp is thereby lowered with the help of the cooler incoming ambient air flow through the throttle body. Unfortunately, at idle
and cruise, the throttle body is closed or barely open thereby allowing relatively little new cool air flow into the supercharger. So, the last thing on this
planet that our supercharger needs is more hot 200° air from those ridiculous, useless, power robbing underhood "hot air" systems. LOSETHEMand
use a 4" or 5" hose (depending onHPlevel) to pull cool air out of the fenderwell just like all the OEM's, racers and the knowledgeable do.
HEADLIGHT KITS
THE TWIN SCREW SUPERCHARGER
only
WARNING
WARRANTY IF THIS SUPERCHARGER IS USED
WITH A "HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET SYSTEM
VOID
"HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET KITS
sc-inst_misc\hotairwarning.cdr rev 03/30/05
Overheating your engine or supercharger will damage both. One has pistons - the other uses rotors. Both are aluminum and expand with
heat. An '03 Cobra test was recently run on our dyno comparing a fenderwell filter to an open filter with the hood OPEN and a huge fan
blowing on it to simulate 90 mph. The temperature difference was a whopping 45° hotter. Oops! An engines coolant temperature is
approximately 160°-200°. That is the temperature deemed "safe" by engineers for over 100 years. Obviously, higher temperatures should
be avoided because excess coolant temperature expands the pistons, thereby reducing the piston to bore clearance to a critical "0". The
piston then scores and/or seizes in the cylinders. Excessive heat will also cause the rotors to expand and score the supercharger case
and/or seize the rotors. Both are typically ruined because of the scoring and metal transfer. Never a pretty sight.
Needless to say, you wouldn't knowingly install some lame product or concept that increases your engine water temperature 130° to a
ridiculously hot 290° to 330° and cause your pistons to seize up and ruin your engine, to say nothing of the power loss from this hot air (1%
power loss for every 10°). Also, there's the increased potential for detonation and more engine damage. Oops!
Would you buy some kit that removes your engine fan? How about a "concept" that advises you to drain 50% of the engine coolant - or
spark plugs 6 heat ranges too hot? Of course you wouldn't. One would have to be totally and technically incompetent, ignorant or brain
dead to offer products or suggestions that destroy your engine - right? Wrong, they do - and these people create big problems for the
vehicle manufacturer and Kenne Bell. You would have no legitimate or ethical case for getting your engine warrantied by the factory. And
you can forget about those companies who sold or recommended those products paying the tab.
Your supercharged engine doesn't like it. So why destroy your Kenne Bell supercharger - and possibly your engine - with 130° hotter air
from one of these cheap HOTAIR UNDERHOOD OPEN FILTERS? "Hot Air" kits are akin to "interheaters" (the opposite of intercoolers).
Don't do it! Use a SEALED filter set up that pulls cool air from the fenderwell, cowl or hood. No underhood air allowed. No half ass baffles
either.
One more time.Avoid all who sell and promote these things for use with Kenne Bell supercharger kits. They obviously don't know, don't care
- or both. These products can destroy your supercharger and/or engine with "the hots." .
We recently ran a filter temperature comparison on Earl's 700HP 9 second Cobra. The hood was open with a high speed fan blowing cool
air into the front of the car. The dyno room temperature remained the same for both the fenderwell located cool air filter and the hot
underhood filter installed on the end of the mass air meter ("hot air" filter) located behind the headlight. However, even with the hood OPEN
and the fan blowing air over the top of the filter, temperature was 45° hotter with the filter sucking hoot underhood air off the end of the mass
air meter. That's the equivalent of approximately 4 psi of boost and a 4%HPloss. Read on.
Did you really believe that a cylindrical filter would magically not suck that bottom hot air from the headers, radiator, etc. and NOTmix it with
the "top cool air" at the filter top? Of course, the filter will average the "hot" and "cool" air, but it won't be as cool as the fenderwell air. That is
why everyOEMmanufacturer on the planet avoids hot exposed underhood filter designs. Now, if 10° is equivalent to a 1%drop inHP(that's
how you calibrate dynos), doesn't the 45° higher air tempREDUCEHPby 4.5%? Oops!
Where does your dyno tuner measure air temp? We've found that the best place to accurately increase air temp is at the entrance of the
supercharger. "One of the real dangers in running a test is you are bound to get data." So if you test on a dyno, use the SAE (Society of
Automotive Engineers) calibration for the particular weather conditions to insure accuracy, but you must test the RIGHTWAY and use the
correct temperature that your engine sees and not the temperature at some random location in the dyno room. The engine is not using the
air next to the dyno computer, is it?
It is not our desire to be critical of anyone or their test procedures. We are only pointing out a common variable in dyno testing that we at
Kenne Bell have found to effect test accuracy.
Note: Our supercharger rotors behave identically to pistons when overheated. The only difference is hotter air instead of hotter
water causes the failure. 130° is equivalent to the heat generated by another 13 psi of boost. Oops! Keep in mind that we can
easily determine if hot underhood air was the cause of the supercharger failure, just as an OEM can determine if his engine was
overheated.
And they void your warranty
 
HOW HOT AIR CAN DAMAGE YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
DOES YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE HAVE "THE HOTS?"
OPEN HOOD FILTER TEST ('03 Cobra)
AIR MIXING & AIR TEMP SENSOR LOCATION
RADIATOR
FAN
270
270
200
200
200
200
70
70
135
135
200
70
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
COOL FENDERWELL AIR
ISOLATION PLATE
70 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 135 AIR
NOTE: SUPERCHARGER AIR ASSUMED TO BE 200 DEG FROM
20 PSI BOOST (~10 DEG PER POUND OF BOOST) FOR
COMPARISON.
COOL AIR KIT
RADIATOR
FAN
400
400
200
200
200
200
200 200
200
200
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
HOT UNDERHOOD AIR
FENDERWELL
FILTER EXPOSED
TO HOT AIR AND
TURBULENT FAN
WASH
200 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 200 AIR
A 10 DEG RISE IN AIR CHARGE TEMP. RESULTS IN A 1% LOSS IN HP.
(example: 50 DEG = 5% = .05 x 300HP = 15HP)
THAT'S HOW THE WORLD CALIBRATES DYNOS FOR VARYING AMBIENT
TEMPERATURES. SAE IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED CONVERSION.
HOT AIR KIT
WOW....

That's alot of information.....
JJ2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 11:58 PM   #4
Bmble_B
 
Bmble_B's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS Rally Yellow LS3/Maggie
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dickinson,TX
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
WARNING: It's an accepted known fact that any engine makes more power on cold
air than hot air. Use of this product negatively alters the "cool air" design of the
stock OEM inlet system and instead inhales underhood "hot air." This device reduces
air density (HP and torque), increases the engines tendency to
knock/detonate/ping which can result in lost power and potential engine damage,
especially with superchargers or turbos. Not recommended for Kenne Bell
supercharger kits. Voids warranty.
Let's all sit back and take a deep breath of fresh air (cool air). Now, crawl under the hood of your vehicle, lay across the engine, close the hood over
you and take a deep breath of all that hot air from the radiator fan (160°-200°), engine (160°-220°) and headers (up to 1000°). Who the hell would do
that, you say? Well, when companies sell you a "cool air" kit with an exposed underhood filter that sucks in the same hot 200° air from that heat
soaked engine compartment, how do you think your engine likes all that hot power robbing air vs. theOEMfactory set up that inhales isolated ambient
70° fenderwell air? Then there's all that hot air the fan blows around. Remember the fan. It sucks hot air in off the hot radiator. Why do you think that for
the last 25 years every vehicle manufacturer on the planet avoids hot underhood air and fan wash like the plague and instead draws cool dense air
from the fenderwell, cowl or hood scoops?
We're not exactly inexperienced in this technology ourselves. Kenne Bell engineered and has sold thousands of functional RamAir/Cool Air kits for
the Mustang, Cobras, Buick GN's, Syclones, Dodges etc. They pull in cool air from the fenderwell, under the bumper or out of a hood scoop. In
contrast is the cheapie "cool air" kit gang who proceeds to eliminate all those expensive plastic molded hoses and fittings and "sticks" a filter onto the
end of a chrome or plastic pipe and calls it a "cool air," "cold air," "chiller," "hi-flo," or ??? kit.
It is, of course, your decision if you choose for your engine to suck in this hot underhood air with one of these over the counter or "custom" kits.
However, these things are not good for our superchargers and we not only don't recommend them, we are warning against the use of them. Look at
the facts. 10° of hotter air is equivalent to 1 psi of boost. That means the difference between the fenderwell ambient 70° system and the hot underhood
air temp can be an amazing 130° (200°-70°=130°) hotter. That 130° equates to about 13 psi of additional boost (13x10°=130°). So, you thought your
engine was only seeing the increased temperature of 100° from 10 psi boost (10x10°=100°).Wrong. It's 100°+130° or 230° plus the ambient. That's
the air temp of 23 psi boost! Surprised?Are you getting the picture yet?
The Kenne Bell supercharger - or any supercharger - doesn't like another 130° of air temp that is the fault of someone else's product. Neither does
your engine. As the old saying goes, ." Don't make those "cool air" kit problems Kenne Bell problems.We've
had our fill of these things. Lose those lame excuses for an inlet system. Our warranty is void if using one - and we can tell if you did.We apologize for
our frank unwavering approach, but the many warnings throughout our literature has failed to curb their use with our supercharger kits - and caused
Kenne Bell some expensive warranties.Try sending your supercharger repair bill to one of these "hot air" kit manufacturers and tell them their "hot air"
system killed your supercharger. Are these underhood filter kits any less liable than: 1. Tires that split or separate, 2. Wires that catch fire, 3. Sand
polluted oil, 4. Spark plug tips that fall off. I think not. There's no warning in the products. They are most certainly detrimental to engine performance. If
ANYONEdisagrees, get a magazine writer and let's do the tests.
"Don't make your problem my problem
FILTER FAN SHROUDS
Did you know that a dyno run with the hood open vs. closed with an underhood exposed filter can be 30HP.We ran this test for 2 different magazines.
Then there's the fan wash. Those who believe that "shrouds" actually solve the temperature problem must also believe in the tooth fairy. Shrouds may
help the mass air meter signal from being distorted and skewing the fuel delivery to your engine, but in no way do these metal shields magically
dissipate that hot underhood air. The hot air then enters the filter from the other side of the shroud.
Finally, there's the removed headlight with the filter behind it (in the hot engine compartment, of course). This is just another "hot air" system. It
remains underhood and blasted by hot fan air.At best, it's a hot air - cool air mixer at high vehicle speed as it does not - and cannot - pull in cool air.
Every engineer in the universe clearly understands the disadvantages of hot air and therefore designs their inlet systems to ingest cool dense air from
the fenderwell, cowl or hood. This is not rocket science. JUST SUPPLYYOUR SUPERCHARGER WITH COOLAIR 100% OF THE TIME. All Kenne
Bell supercharger kits connect to the stock cool air inlet system.We may also upgrade and/or offer an optional system for higher HPapplications.We
even offer some "all out" 5" racing systems. And we are not condemning cool air kit products that are designed to use cool air. Many of them are
functional and may be used with our kits.
The Kenne Bell Twin Screw Supercharger is essentially an air compressor and an air tank combined. That is why it is so potent and capable of
generating full instant boost at the flick of the throttle at any engine rpm. It's akin to an air hose (throttle) connected to the air tank (supercharger). The
handle (trigger) regulates the air flow (boost) into the engine. Engine rpm has little to do with the boost delivery. Boost is regulated with the gas pedal.
Abasic law of physics tell us that all air is heated when compressed, regardless of the supercharger or turbocharger type. To lower the superchargers
air temperature at idle and cruise, we rely on a bypass valve which "dumps" the hot compressed air in back of the throttle body where it is
"decompressed" and the temp is thereby lowered with the help of the cooler incoming ambient air flow through the throttle body. Unfortunately, at idle
and cruise, the throttle body is closed or barely open thereby allowing relatively little new cool air flow into the supercharger. So, the last thing on this
planet that our supercharger needs is more hot 200° air from those ridiculous, useless, power robbing underhood "hot air" systems. LOSETHEMand
use a 4" or 5" hose (depending onHPlevel) to pull cool air out of the fenderwell just like all the OEM's, racers and the knowledgeable do.
HEADLIGHT KITS
THE TWIN SCREW SUPERCHARGER
only
WARNING
WARRANTY IF THIS SUPERCHARGER IS USED
WITH A "HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET SYSTEM
VOID
"HOT AIR" UNDERHOOD INLET KITS
sc-inst_misc\hotairwarning.cdr rev 03/30/05
Overheating your engine or supercharger will damage both. One has pistons - the other uses rotors. Both are aluminum and expand with
heat. An '03 Cobra test was recently run on our dyno comparing a fenderwell filter to an open filter with the hood OPEN and a huge fan
blowing on it to simulate 90 mph. The temperature difference was a whopping 45° hotter. Oops! An engines coolant temperature is
approximately 160°-200°. That is the temperature deemed "safe" by engineers for over 100 years. Obviously, higher temperatures should
be avoided because excess coolant temperature expands the pistons, thereby reducing the piston to bore clearance to a critical "0". The
piston then scores and/or seizes in the cylinders. Excessive heat will also cause the rotors to expand and score the supercharger case
and/or seize the rotors. Both are typically ruined because of the scoring and metal transfer. Never a pretty sight.
Needless to say, you wouldn't knowingly install some lame product or concept that increases your engine water temperature 130° to a
ridiculously hot 290° to 330° and cause your pistons to seize up and ruin your engine, to say nothing of the power loss from this hot air (1%
power loss for every 10°). Also, there's the increased potential for detonation and more engine damage. Oops!
Would you buy some kit that removes your engine fan? How about a "concept" that advises you to drain 50% of the engine coolant - or
spark plugs 6 heat ranges too hot? Of course you wouldn't. One would have to be totally and technically incompetent, ignorant or brain
dead to offer products or suggestions that destroy your engine - right? Wrong, they do - and these people create big problems for the
vehicle manufacturer and Kenne Bell. You would have no legitimate or ethical case for getting your engine warrantied by the factory. And
you can forget about those companies who sold or recommended those products paying the tab.
Your supercharged engine doesn't like it. So why destroy your Kenne Bell supercharger - and possibly your engine - with 130° hotter air
from one of these cheap HOTAIR UNDERHOOD OPEN FILTERS? "Hot Air" kits are akin to "interheaters" (the opposite of intercoolers).
Don't do it! Use a SEALED filter set up that pulls cool air from the fenderwell, cowl or hood. No underhood air allowed. No half ass baffles
either.
One more time.Avoid all who sell and promote these things for use with Kenne Bell supercharger kits. They obviously don't know, don't care
- or both. These products can destroy your supercharger and/or engine with "the hots." .
We recently ran a filter temperature comparison on Earl's 700HP 9 second Cobra. The hood was open with a high speed fan blowing cool
air into the front of the car. The dyno room temperature remained the same for both the fenderwell located cool air filter and the hot
underhood filter installed on the end of the mass air meter ("hot air" filter) located behind the headlight. However, even with the hood OPEN
and the fan blowing air over the top of the filter, temperature was 45° hotter with the filter sucking hoot underhood air off the end of the mass
air meter. That's the equivalent of approximately 4 psi of boost and a 4%HPloss. Read on.
Did you really believe that a cylindrical filter would magically not suck that bottom hot air from the headers, radiator, etc. and NOTmix it with
the "top cool air" at the filter top? Of course, the filter will average the "hot" and "cool" air, but it won't be as cool as the fenderwell air. That is
why everyOEMmanufacturer on the planet avoids hot exposed underhood filter designs. Now, if 10° is equivalent to a 1%drop inHP(that's
how you calibrate dynos), doesn't the 45° higher air tempREDUCEHPby 4.5%? Oops!
Where does your dyno tuner measure air temp? We've found that the best place to accurately increase air temp is at the entrance of the
supercharger. "One of the real dangers in running a test is you are bound to get data." So if you test on a dyno, use the SAE (Society of
Automotive Engineers) calibration for the particular weather conditions to insure accuracy, but you must test the RIGHTWAY and use the
correct temperature that your engine sees and not the temperature at some random location in the dyno room. The engine is not using the
air next to the dyno computer, is it?
It is not our desire to be critical of anyone or their test procedures. We are only pointing out a common variable in dyno testing that we at
Kenne Bell have found to effect test accuracy.
Note: Our supercharger rotors behave identically to pistons when overheated. The only difference is hotter air instead of hotter
water causes the failure. 130° is equivalent to the heat generated by another 13 psi of boost. Oops! Keep in mind that we can
easily determine if hot underhood air was the cause of the supercharger failure, just as an OEM can determine if his engine was
overheated.
And they void your warranty
 
HOW HOT AIR CAN DAMAGE YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
DOES YOUR SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE HAVE "THE HOTS?"
OPEN HOOD FILTER TEST ('03 Cobra)
AIR MIXING & AIR TEMP SENSOR LOCATION
RADIATOR
FAN
270
270
200
200
200
200
70
70
135
135
200
70
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
COOL FENDERWELL AIR
ISOLATION PLATE
70 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 135 AIR
NOTE: SUPERCHARGER AIR ASSUMED TO BE 200 DEG FROM
20 PSI BOOST (~10 DEG PER POUND OF BOOST) FOR
COMPARISON.
COOL AIR KIT
RADIATOR
FAN
400
400
200
200
200
200
200 200
200
200
70
70
70
SUPER
CHARGER
BYPASS
VALVE
HOT RADIATOR AIR
AND FAN WASH
HOT UNDERHOOD AIR
FENDERWELL
FILTER EXPOSED
TO HOT AIR AND
TURBULENT FAN
WASH
200 HOT AIR MIXES WITH 200 AIR
A 10 DEG RISE IN AIR CHARGE TEMP. RESULTS IN A 1% LOSS IN HP.
(example: 50 DEG = 5% = .05 x 300HP = 15HP)THAT'S HOW THE WORLD CALIBRATES DYNOS FOR VARYING AMBIENT
TEMPERATURES. SAE IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED CONVERSION.
HOT AIR KIT
I have preached this and proven with a scanner time and time again to my customers. Filters open to underhood temps create tremendous loss of power i.e. timing retarded because of excessive iat's. Too much propaganda from the cai manufacturers. People believe too much written in cyberspace!
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:59 PM   #5
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I guess I admire the, uh, spirit here, but what I don't get is what spurred the tirade in the first place, pardon my crude categorization of it. It's all decent info, but I wasn't aware of anyone blaming Kenne Bell SC failures on shoddy intake work. You break it, you bought it, right?

Maybe a better rant, er, warning would be aimed at the folks who think forced induction mods are simple weekend bolt-on projects and fail to appreciate how you have to shore an engine up to handle all the multifarious dynamic changes that such a system is going to introduce to the powertrain. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it, hell, I'd love to have the resources to do one myself, but even if I had the dough and the shop time, I wouldn't do it myself, because I'm not an expert. I wouldn't let anyone near it who hadn't been building smallblocks (that don't blow up) for at least ten years.
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:21 AM   #6
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+1 sooooooo hot air = bad
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:13 AM   #7
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I think what ADM is saying, buyer beware on these CAI's that people are selling, and do your homework.

-bobby
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Old 07-19-2009, 02:55 AM   #8
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wanting to buy better formatting
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:55 AM   #9
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Can you say, LINE BREAK?! Hahaha great info though!
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:13 AM   #10
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Interesting read .... I have never followed the 2010 Camaro stock intake .. does it have a snorkel that goes into the fender well (like my 04 cobra one did)?

thanks,
Crowely
There is a small hole in the front of the radiator core support that lets air in from the front to the air box and then to the engine.
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:27 AM   #11
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I only copied and pasted it from a pdf file from his site.

The man has been around forced induction from along time ago,he speaks the truth.

I bring this read up about once a year just to enlighten the new guys that just don't no better.

Andy
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:51 AM   #12
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Air intakes these days are a joke, the stock one supports good air. The stock air intake works well with a cam, headers, exhaust and most other bolt-on's. It seems like these CAI's these days are just making your motor sound louder but give less horsepower.
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:11 AM   #13
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I've always wondered what the point is when it comes to an intake. People who want to get some additional power always go for bolt-ons, but they tend to want more power later. When that happens, they have to start building internals to go the forced induction route. When you slap on a supercharger, your intake does not bolt into the same place anymore. It has to go from the filter to the supercharger instead of the engine, resulting in a new piece of piping. As a result, anyone who bought an intake has to throw it away because it no longer can serve a purpose.

In other words, intakes, while potentially attractive and shiny, are not any good for people who have goals for their rides. They don't produce enough power to really make heads turn and they don't make the air cold enough to justify the price.
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:39 AM   #14
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Air intakes these days are a joke, the stock one supports good air. The stock air intake works well with a cam, headers, exhaust and most other bolt-on's.
you can see evidence of to support this particular claim on my cars build history...right now on stock airbox I'm putting down 460+rwhp.

Granted...I am waiting on the Vararam product and will install that next...
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:40 AM   #15
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Unless you can get an intake sourced for your F/I setup. As well, most aftermarket filters are better than the stock ones.

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Old 07-19-2009, 10:42 AM   #16
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Granted...I am waiting on the Vararam product and will install that next...
But isn't that going to suck air right from the radiator area which is hot air which is what the OP was referring to?
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:44 AM   #17
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In other words, intakes, while potentially attractive and shiny, are not any good for people who have goals for their rides. They don't produce enough power to really make heads turn and they don't make the air cold enough to justify the price.


But hey, they're having fun and supporting the economy, so might as well let them do it even if they're wasting their money and effort from your point of view.
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:53 AM   #18
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So are you saying that the stock Air Box with a 3" diameter snorkel is better than an aftermarket under the hood filter???

or just stating it's not really worth the money for the small increase in hp? If so I'm not concerned about the $400 bucks... when someone comes out with a better one I'll upgrade. Not sure I want to tilt my radiator back or put a filter 12" from the road right now...
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:42 AM   #19
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I think what ADM is saying, buyer beware on these CAI's that people are selling, and do your homework.

-bobby

That is why we have tested our CAI system so much. Ours is designed with a heat shield which seals to the hood and prevents hot air intrusion into the air induction system and is not subjected to such heat soak as the factory air box. We have done testing with the facotry system in high traffic conditions and with the GM system it takes alot of driving afterwards to bring the air temps back to ambient because of the small hole in the factory air box. Our CAI takes half the time to bring the air back to ambient once driving again to prove that our CAI flows more air and in return makes more power. Hope that helps.





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Old 07-19-2009, 11:58 AM   #20
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That is why we have tested our CAI system so much. Ours is designed with a heat shield which seals to the hood and prevents hot air intrusion into the air induction system and is not subjected to such heat soak as the factory air box. We have done testing with the facotry system in high traffic conditions and with the GM system it takes alot of driving afterwards to bring the air temps back to ambient because of the small hole in the factory air box. Our CAI takes half the time to bring the air back to ambient once driving again to prove that our CAI flows more air and in return makes more power. Hope that helps.
Can it mate up to a supercharger?

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Old 07-19-2009, 12:04 PM   #21
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ADM Performance is making a good point. He simply copied from the Kenne Bell website, which is great because most people it seems don't do any research. If you really want to get some good information, check out Kenne Bell's website. They have multiple pages of FAQs, explaining the in and outs of supercharging. They also address how multiple mods work together, it isn't always additive in effect.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:32 PM   #22
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But isn't that going to suck air right from the radiator area which is hot air which is what the OP was referring to?
We'll have to wait to see vararams design for full details...but it's going to pull air from in front of the radiator.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:51 PM   #23
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The Kenne Bell article is certainly a good one... However that CAI from LMR is definitely worth it. I tried to see what a custom design would do on the Camaro and looked very close at this car with the front end removed. Always came back to put the filter right where LMR and everyone else has with a good shroud. Let's face it there is not much room for very many good options. We'll see what the over radiator options come up with.

Quote:
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Can it mate up to a supercharger?
If you are going to do this then there is no reason to get your CAI now. Do it all at once and I'm sure LMR or anyone else can hook you up...
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:55 PM   #24
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Can it mate up to a supercharger?

Crowley
Good luck......
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:33 PM   #25
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Hot air intakes are known by hypermilers to slightly (or sometimes significantly) reduce power and increase fuel economy. I wonder if people claiming that their cold air intakes increased their fuel economy, are really getting higher IAT than they had stock?
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