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Old 12-26-2013, 05:13 PM   #351
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And the difference between those two guys beating on a customer's car during business hours and the guy who takes a customer's car after business hours and wrecks it is.........
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:20 PM   #352
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i own a business and I have garage keepers.. one phone call to their insurance agent and the insurance company will write the OP a check for the fair market value of his car.. then, the OP could press criminal charges against the person who stole the car to recoup damages.. the twist will be when an attorney finds out the person who stole the car had prior infractions with the HR department at the dealer... then the dealer is responsible for his actions.. a habitual offender is a liability, that is why employers set the bar so high when they hire people
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:42 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heymatt View Post
And the difference between those two guys beating on a customer's car during business hours and the guy who takes a customer's car after business hours and wrecks it is.........
There's a very big difference, and it's been beaten to death…

I never said the guy that crashed the ZL1 shouldn't be charged. In fact, I said he was a douche for doing what he did.

The only difference is, he wasn't working for the dealer at the time. He wasn't performing his duties at the owners behest. He had no business being there. He had no business being in the car, let alone stealing it. I've been saying I don't feel the dealer was negligent, or responsible for an employee that decided, on his own, to illegally enter the premises and steal a car, after hours. How could the owner have known, or do anything else to prevent it (based on what we know, not on mindless assumptions)?

I think I've said enough on this, but this is what I'm basing my opinion on:

"Job-Related Accidents or Misconduct
Under a legal doctrine sometimes referred to as "respondeat superior" (Latin for "Let the superior answer"), an employer is legally responsible for the actions of its employees. However, this rule applies only if the employee is acting within the course and scope of employment. In other words, the employer will generally be liable if the employee was doing his or her job, carrying out company business, or otherwise acting on the employer's behalf when the incident took place."


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...cts-29638.html

And while I'm at it:

"reasonable care
n. the degree of caution and concern for the safety of himself/herself and others an ordinarily prudent and rational person would use in the circumstances. This is a subjective test of determining if a person is negligent, meaning he/she did not exercise reasonable care."


http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1730


I love the law, but I'm no lawyer. If someone else has actual case law that supports their claims, and discount mine, I'd love to see them… Please though, only present case law that is on point, and based on the facts as we know them…



Padre - Thank you. I missed that. Though I've read the entire thread, I've been basing my comments on the 1st post, since I'm most disturbed by the mob mentality and feeding frenzy as a result of that one post alone...
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:51 PM   #354
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i would contact an attorney and also contact the local news stations in your area and adjoining areas. If you cause enough chaos i promise you it will turn in your favor...
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:36 PM   #355
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This is one reason why I have such a problem with this.

The State Police said he can't be charged with theft, because he was an employee and had keys to access the service area.
Granted, he had absolutely no reason to be there. Unless he makes the claim that he needed to see the paint repair in the daylight, while driving.

Morally, it is theft.

Because the police are establishing him as an employee, it would fall back to the dealership's insurance to cover the loss.

If your tv gets stolen, the insurance co doesn't say go get a used tv on Craigslist and we'll call it even. Because now you've been made whole.
You get a new tv.

The dealer will end up sending it thru his insurance, because the police have established him as an employee.
The OP will end up with hopefully, in my opinion, a new, not used car. With the dealer paying the difference, so the OP doesn't have to come out of pocket at all.

The guy that wrecked the car, should be charged and prosecuted. The way it looks now, probably not gonna happen.
I have to agree with this ....
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:02 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by heymatt View Post
If your tv gets stolen, the insurance co doesn't say go get a used tv on Craigslist and we'll call it even. Because now you've been made whole.
You get a new
This isn't true, insurance companies do have access to used and refurbished items. They also calculate depreciation into claims.


I had a home theft. It was interesting to go through the process. I had an older laptop stolen, it was replaced by another out dated laptop...not the newest one in stores.

I also had a expensive watch stolen, it was replaced by a "like" item
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:20 PM   #357
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So,....let me get this straight.
The douche bag went into work, during non-business hours and took the OP's car for a little "joy ride" and ended up totaling it. If that's the case, the douche bag is 100% responsible for this. The dealership is like a third party issue. Yes, the car was housed there overnight, but the dealership did not allow the douche to take or steal the car for the day, non-business hours. The douche decided that on his own.
It's just how I see it. Kinda like suing Burger King because they make fatty foods, I eat their fatty foods and I weigh over 350 pounds now.(Not really, but you get the idea. lol )
I hope all goes well for the OP.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:22 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heymatt View Post
This is one reason why I have such a problem with this.

The State Police said he can't be charged with theft, because he was an employee and had keys to access the service area.
Granted, he had absolutely no reason to be there. Unless he makes the claim that he needed to see the paint repair in the daylight, while driving.

Morally, it is theft.

Because the police are establishing him as an employee, it would fall back to the dealership's insurance to cover the loss.

If your tv gets stolen, the insurance co doesn't say go get a used tv on Craigslist and we'll call it even. Because now you've been made whole.
You get a new tv.

The dealer will end up sending it thru his insurance, because the police have established him as an employee.
The OP will end up with hopefully, in my opinion, a new, not used car. With the dealer paying the difference, so the OP doesn't have to come out of pocket at all.

The guy that wrecked the car, should be charged and prosecuted. The way it looks now, probably not gonna happen.
The insurance company is not going to buy him a new car.. They will write him a check for the fair market value of his car in the condition it was in the day it was wrecked.. This situation is no different than if someone wrecked into the OP on the highway.. Having been under similar circumstances, I can assure you, that is what they would and will do
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:29 PM   #359
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In English tort law, there can be no liability in negligence unless the claimant establishes both that they were owed a duty of care by the defendant, and that there has been a breach of that duty. The defendant is in breach of duty towards the claimant if their conduct fell short of the standard expected under the circumstances.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:35 PM   #360
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Contributory Negligence

The dealer and the culprit should both be sued with full restitution being made to the OP.

The dealer was likely contributory negligent for not properly training and controlling the behavior of their employee in this case, and for giving him the responsibility and access to the keys. In addition, if it turns out they hired a person with a bad record, they could even be liable for the whole ball of wax.

A good attorney will sue both and the dealer's failure to insure employee ethics is a factor of negligence.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #361
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Good Dealers are not perfect. They do make mistakes in hiring ... which are contributing factors in events. Case closed.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:51 PM   #362
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It's a case of not stepping up. I know it's not legally required, but faster results or remuneration would have helped.
Case in point(on a much smaller scale net-value-wise),
while working around customers car after hours, employee of mine dented the door. I saw it, nearly cried, and told him if he did it again he was going to be fired. He just wasn't being careful enough.
I called the customer within the hour,(9pm) told him what had happened. I wiped the whole bill clean($1000+) and asked to be billed directly for the repair.
There was no chip, so maybe a $200 repair, maybe. He was unhappy, but told me he was appreciative of my honesty.
He came and picked the car up, we chatted, all was good. He refused to bill me for the repair, and he is booked in for more work.
Why did I not just fix it and send him on his way?
Simply put its the right thing to do. I love cars, and I know what I would want.
I also know that if I can't be trusted, I'll never have work.
My reputation is everything to me. I don't make millions, so that $1000 would have been nice. It was the only way that I could think of to show my customer about how much I care.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:46 PM   #363
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-----------OP Read This!!-------------
Look at it like this. Say there was no building around the vehicle, it was an empty lot. The car was parked there, turned off and no body was given permission to operate said vehicle. Only the dealership and under terms that it was for repairs. The dealership was closed. An employee which was not on the clock at the time takes the vehicle. Totals it.

1. Stealing a vehicle
2. Should be tried in court as theft of a motor vehicle and either your insurance should cover it or the suspects insurance should.
3. If insurance should not cover it, you need to sue the suspect for your loss.


You need to stop communication with him and the dealership. Speak only with your lawyer, issue a summonce to the dealership or suspect, and let the judge settle this.

Ask for reimbursment for lawyer fees, rental car, new vehicle, taxes, title, and tags. Make it clear that you want no part in paying for anything AT ALL. This was not your fault. You should not be financially responsible for it.

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Old 12-26-2013, 10:46 PM   #364
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Do this^
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:50 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explit Player View Post
-----------OP Read This!!-------------
Look at it like this. Say there was no building around the vehicle, it was an empty lot. The car was parked there, turned off and no body was given permission to operate said vehicle. Only the dealership and under terms that it was for repairs. The dealership was closed. An employee which was not on the clock at the time takes the vehicle. Totals it.

1. Stealing a vehicle
2. Should be tried in court as theft of a motor vehicle and either your insurance should cover it or the suspects insurance should.
3. If insurance should not cover it, you need to sue the suspect for your loss.


You need to stop communication with him and the dealership. Speak only with your lawyer, issue a summonce to the dealership or suspect, and let the judge settle this.

Ask for reimbursment for lawyer fees, rental car, new vehicle, taxes, title, and tags. Make it clear that you want no part in paying for anything AT ALL. This was not your fault. You should not be financially responsible for it.

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addendum:


If you find out the employee had past issues with HR then you could go after the dealership for negligence!
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:29 PM   #366
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I emailed Chevy with this:

"I would like to report a dealership for misrepresentation of the Chevorlet brand.

Dealership:
First State Chevorlet
Location:
Georgetown, DE

The dealership had a employee break into the service room after hours, that employee stole a 2012 Camaro ZL1 having paint work done, the employee continued to drive it on the road and ended up hitting a pole and totaling it. The dealership is refusing to supply insurance info to the owner of the vehicle, and he was told that it isnt the dealerships responsibility because the employee was off the clock. The dealership was still in possession of the vehicle at the time and should be the responsible party. But no. Instead it has fueled a massive fire on well known website: Camaro5.com and we have decided to assist with our fellow member and help him get his baby back and justice served.

The reason this is such a tragedy is because he traded his prestine 1969 Camaro SS and 2011 Camaro 2SS for the ZL1. He says he will never be able to afford a new ZL1 again. He is getting no where and I decided to do something about it and report to you the dealership. I reccomend that Chevorlet looks into this case and revokes the dealership's lisence. This is not the way Chevorlet should be represented."

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Old 12-27-2013, 02:01 AM   #367
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Wow. I am having a hard time being able to control my anger. What this dealer and employee have put you thru is unbelievable. But on the bright side, I have never heard of a more open and shut case, in regards to suit. Legally I don't see you coming out of this empty handed. Wish you the best OP. Subscribed and following this until resolved.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:58 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtainium View Post
It's a case of not stepping up. I know it's not legally required, but faster results or remuneration would have helped.
Case in point(on a much smaller scale net-value-wise),
while working around customers car after hours, employee of mine dented the door. I saw it, nearly cried, and told him if he did it again he was going to be fired. He just wasn't being careful enough.
I called the customer within the hour,(9pm) told him what had happened. I wiped the whole bill clean($1000+) and asked to be billed directly for the repair.
There was no chip, so maybe a $200 repair, maybe. He was unhappy, but told me he was appreciative of my honesty.
He came and picked the car up, we chatted, all was good. He refused to bill me for the repair, and he is booked in for more work.
Why did I not just fix it and send him on his way?
Simply put its the right thing to do. I love cars, and I know what I would want.
I also know that if I can't be trusted, I'll never have work.
My reputation is everything to me. I don't make millions, so that $1000 would have been nice. It was the only way that I could think of to show my customer about how much I care.
I hope I can assume that you run a successful business, because this kind of integrity should be rewarded. Unfortunately, I find that businesses these days just don't provide consistent, quality service...may be just me. Anyway, I congratulate and thank you for providing this kind of service to your customers!
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:45 AM   #369
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My Son drove one of my Camaros to the Chevy dealership he was a mechanic for & one of the lot boys drove over the hood & fender of my Camaro with a new 3500 dually. I got paid fair market value. How well I maintained by car was meaningless so I lost a really nice car that couldn't be replaced for what I got paid.

My Son was test driving (normal route all techs take) a 4 year old Corvette after he had rebuilt the transmission & a deer jumped out in front of him doing a number on the Corvette. With part of Bambi still embedded in the Corvette he drove it back to the dealership. The dealer gave the owner full KBB retail on trade for a new Corvette at cost.

I feel for the OP but the legal systems tends to slow things down. Getting a new replacement would be a nice response from the dealer but not likely to happen. All I see happening is dealer's insurance paying fair market value + tax & tags leaving the OP to buy what he wants.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:09 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explit Player View Post
-----------OP Read This!!-------------
Look at it like this. Say there was no building around the vehicle, it was an empty lot. The car was parked there, turned off and no body was given permission to operate said vehicle. Only the dealership and under terms that it was for repairs. The dealership was closed. An employee which was not on the clock at the time takes the vehicle. Totals it.

1. Stealing a vehicle
2. Should be tried in court as theft of a motor vehicle and either your insurance should cover it or the suspects insurance should.
3. If insurance should not cover it, you need to sue the suspect for your loss.


You need to stop communication with him and the dealership. Speak only with your lawyer, issue a summonce to the dealership or suspect, and let the judge settle this.

Ask for reimbursment for lawyer fees, rental car, new vehicle, taxes, title, and tags. Make it clear that you want no part in paying for anything AT ALL. This was not your fault. You should not be financially responsible for it.

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Agreed 150%!
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:13 AM   #371
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Horrible story here. There has to be some way for proper adjudication of the issue. It seems to me that the dealer would bare some responsibility (criminally or civilly) due to them allowing this particular employee to posses a set of keys to the building. Lots of opinions in this thread but I certainly would be seeking the advice of an attorney experienced in handling such matters.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #372
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nearly 400 posts only to sum it up with...

wait- turn it over to your lawyer- let them battle it out and see what the options are when the dust settles.

Everything else...and I mean EVERYTHING else, from non-involved parties, don't know sh*t and are only speculating and forming opinions which mean virtually nothing. Internet lawyers are seemingly everywhere.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #373
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Has anyone thought that the negative comments/reviews towards the dealer could effect the OPs good will with the dealership?????
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #374
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Has anyone thought that the negative comments/reviews towards the dealer could effect the OPs good will with the dealership?????
I am pretty sure that went out the window long ago. The OP has been called a "prick" by the dealer, and has been given an option to buy another car from the them (along with the fees and taxes that accompany).

So "good will" is no longer relevant. There was never any to begin with.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:21 PM   #375
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Good Luck OP! Sorry to hear about your ZL1
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