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Old 01-07-2014, 07:11 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
What you first need to know is that high and low speeds refer to the speed of the piston inside the shock as the sprung mass - car body - moves around due to acceleration, braking, and cornering (this being "low speed"), and as the suspension reacts to hitting bumps (high speed).

You want enough low speed damping for control of sprung and unsprung mass motions without driving the high speed damping so high that the integrity of your fillings is at risk. Apparently DSSV is more capable than other approaches to shock design as far as providing firm chassis control without feeling like they're filled with cement when you hit a stretch of rough road (IOW, harsh).

This tuning is an ability to separate body control from ride quality - consider it a different way of tweaking the shock's damping curve, all done internally and without driver or other external input.

Just like with most other shocks, tuning those four different regions at the shock design level is via internal valving rather than as an end-user adjustment.

External adjustment capability such as what you find on coilovers and Koni Sport shocks allow you to manually shift all or parts of the damping curve. The more separate adjustments you have, the easier it is to get "lost" in your tuning efforts and end up worse off than if you'd left them all alone.


In the attached .jpg, "low speed" is to the left of the vertical red line. It's about where consensus divides low from high, good enough for illustration here anyway. Below the black line is "bump", rebound is above. The greenish line is what the damping could look like if no attempt at all was made at softening bump harshness. Since I rather like my fillings to stay in my teeth, I really wouldn't want to see a 10 inch/sec bump on this line at all (about 0.25 in meters/sec on the plot), even though the low speed bump damping is marginally poorer than the other settings.


Norm
Thanks for the lesson Norm , I had to read it twice to "get it" I had thought they meant speed of the car Always good to learn something everyday
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:54 PM   #767
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I think the issue is that people were wanting the "name". Those that wanted a 5Gen version of the 2Gen-4Gen Z28 are the most upset. They should consider a 1LE/SS as it fits that perfectly.
Just maybe they will get that Z28.

But... Still can't please everybody -
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I am not sure the 2014 Z/28 needed to target a very limited audience like the first Z/28. I think GM made a mistake. I also believe there may be more "lesser" Z/28's in the future to meet everyone's expectation, but why take the chance of alienating your biggest market first? I believe it is very clear many expected to have a shot at the "name". And I understand why as I consider myself part of the group. In many descriptions anticipating the car, almost no one seems to have a well-defined expectation of exactly what the Z/28 would be, but they did agree or "know" with certainty one thing: they would have one. By looking back at the history of the Z/28, I can choose to look at the whole rather than just the beginning. By looking at the whole, I saw a common element: the Camaro has always been a working mans car and the Z/28 was within the reach of many. This is the criteria which should have seen the marketing effort putting the name within the reach of many. The car "parts" would not have mattered so much that made up the car. Instead of a "party" for just a few at end of 5gen, we would have a party for most. Why not reward the faithful after all this time and especially after supporting 5gen in such a big way? Then, follow with the exclusives later...I have my Z/28, it just has the wrong name.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:45 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by STI_TO_SS? View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance
I think the issue is that people were wanting the "name". Those that wanted a 5Gen version of the 2Gen-4Gen Z28 are the most upset. They should consider a 1LE/SS as it fits that perfectly.
Just maybe they will get that Z28.

But... Still can't please everybody -
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I am not sure the 2014 Z/28 needed to target a very limited audience like the first Z/28. I think GM made a mistake. I also believe there may be more "lesser" Z/28's in the future to meet everyone's expectation, but why take the chance of alienating your biggest market first? I believe it is very clear many expected to have a shot at the "name". And I understand why as I consider myself part of the group. In many descriptions anticipating the car, almost no one seems to have a well-defined expectation of exactly what the Z/28 would be, but they did agree or "know" with certainty one thing: they would have one. By looking back at the history of the Z/28, I can choose to look at the whole rather than just the beginning. By looking at the whole, I saw a common element: the Camaro has always been a working mans car and the Z/28 was within the reach of many. This is the criteria which should have seen the marketing effort putting the name within the reach of many. The car "parts" would not have mattered so much that made up the car. Instead of a "party" for just a few at end of 5gen, we would have a party for most. Why not reward the faithful after all this time and especially after supporting 5gen in such a big way? Then, follow with the exclusives later...I have my Z/28, it just has the wrong name.
I agree and wish, that GM had simply upped the present ZL1 power 10-15 % (a la ZR1, or Hennessey), got much cheaper but very capable lightweight 2 piece rotors (a la C7), put the Pirellis on, pulled more extra weight off, added some aero and called it a Z28. It would surely be faster then the present Z28 and much cheaper. And nobody would complain that the "goods don't justify the price", or "their favourite ice cream costs 9.99" to quote a couple of colourful responses. And so many more could afford it and enjoy it for the purpose it was created: track not collectors garage museums.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:51 PM   #769
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the first one didn't target a limited audience. by the third year they sold around 20,000 of them.

by the way here's some good history on how the Z/28 began for those who don't know it.
www.67z28.com/history.htm
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:11 PM   #770
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When many of us ordered our ZL1's, way back in the summer of 2011 (many of us just got in line with a dealer), we all thought we were getting the Z/28. It wasn't until the unveil that we knew it was going to be a Z but not the one we were thinking. I for one couldn't be happier with my car, despite it being a different Z.

I think the strategy for configuration and rollout of this new Z/28 is well matched given the rollout of ZL1 and 1LE. What most people connect with as the "every man's" Z28 (notice no slash) is clearly the 1LE. The 1LE is in fact light years of the Z28's of years gone by.

The Z/28 will be light years ahead of any Camaro ever produced. The price of entry for CC brakes, LS7, Multimatics, etc is about right at $75K.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:21 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by Hennesseyrgv View Post
Just one question. Unless i am wrong and already comes with. Why GM didnt addapt the idea of carbon fiber fenders and panels like the Z06 and Grand sport Corvette? This would of reduce some more weigth. Rigth now the way it is , in my opinion its still a heavy car.
Tooling costs can make CF prohibitive. It is very light but even newer processes that don't require an autoclave are still pricey for the volume.

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The carbon fiber fenders are heaver then the ones on the car now.
Where are you getting that data? CF weighs less than steel by a huge amount and even undercuts aluminum by a very large amount.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:21 PM   #772
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This car will be the fastest "factory" Camaro ever produced. It will deservingly carry the Z/28 monicker. It will be low volume with exotic pieces and lots of engineering time ($$). They said it would be fast and not for everyone. I understand people saying, "I can't justify the price" or something similar. That's totally fine. But really folks, let's stop with the "ZL1 plus...." or "1LE plus...." comments. Those are really irrelevant. This car will cost $75K and there will only be one Z/28. It will not be the fastest track Camaro in the world, but it will be the fastest one that can be purchased directly from GM.
Agree that officially this will be the fastest "factory" Camaro, according to the order sheet anyway.

But, will it be the fastest Camaro that can be purchased directly from GM? Well, if somebody puts both cars on the same rubber and Z28 beats the ZL1 fair and square, I will admit: it is the fastest factory Camaro. But not until then.

All the track comparisons between the 2 cars (Milford 2.87 seconds, Nurburgring est 10 seconds) have been heralded loudly, except for one important point: the tires.
In effect, ZL1 brought a knife to a gun fight. Tires are always a key factor at any track "game" and even in pro racing, there is a level playing field. But not here, unfortunately.

The "factory" makes the car, but they don't make the tires. Plus the tires are "consumables" especially on a track car. Besides I am sure a GM dealer will be delighted to take my money and sell me Z28 rims with Pirellis on them. I would expect the same response for those nice Recaro seats.

So technically, I could purchase a ZL1 (possible for $48,250, as a friend just got one), add the rims (est $6,000?) plus the seats (est $2,000?) and have the (possibly)fastest Camaro, directly from GM for $56,250. But let's round it up to $60,000 to be certain I am not sand-bagging my own expectations. As a value added bonus, we have gained some weight reductions: let's assume 100lb all in, which will make it even faster. Plus I still have an AC and stereo, fog lamps and other bits that got deleted from the Z28.

These simple and readily available enhancements could make the ZL1 if not actually faster, then likely as fast as the Z28 on a road course, straight from a GM dealership. And of course I am saving at least $15,000 (more if I shop aftermarket). This would also include already having a spare set of (original) rims and street tires to store the car on in winter (a necessity for any future Z28 owner living in a 4 seasons climate). Chock the savings up by another 2 or 3 grand minimum. Hence the current offer makes no sense to me.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:24 PM   #773
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The Z/28 will be light years ahead of any Camaro ever produced. The price of entry for CC brakes, LS7, Multimatics, etc is about right at $75K.
Minus A/C, Navigation, Insulation, HID headlights and fog lights.

Well you do get One Speaker and a K&N air filter.

Yep. A real bargain.

Get a ZL1 or 1LE.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:46 PM   #774
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Minus A/C, Navigation, Insulation, HID headlights and fog lights.

Well you do get One Speaker and a K&N air filter.

Yep. A real bargain.

Get a ZL1 or 1LE.
It's not meant to be a daily driver. It's attack car with exotic low volume engine and components. If you do not understand this then yes 1LE or ZL1 are your best choices.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:47 PM   #775
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The z/28 doesn't have magnetic suspension either, something that was touted as the best most advanced suspension on earth, why doesn't the Z/28 have it? Is the Z/28's non magnetic suspension better?
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:55 PM   #776
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I guess around 70K US dollars so I was close, I wonder what one will run in Canada. The Canadian ZL1 MSRP was priced close to the US so we may get lucky.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:00 PM   #777
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...sour grapes again for me here...GM got it ass backwards between the ZL1 and the Z/28...I know all the specs...., it's a long story and we know it to a T. No preaching needed. So be it, it is what it is. I am still bummed. Let me pout still.
Hey bud you got a sweet ride, I wouldn't worry about the Z28 too much. I felt the same way when the Zl1 came out. One thing I have learned over the years, is that if you chase technology you go broke.

DRIVE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD AND ENJOY THE RIDE.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:04 PM   #778
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It's not meant to be a daily driver. It's attack car with exotic low volume engine and components. If you do not understand this then yes 1LE or ZL1 are your best choices.
What's exotic about an 8 year old z06 motor that makes less power then what's in the zl1? Also, exotic does not mean better or faster but always means MORE EXPENSIVE! I see no benefit in exotic whatoever if it reduces a z28 to 1500 copies, 36% price premium over zl1 and if not for the uber tires, not much (if any) performance edge.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:11 PM   #779
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I remember paying 22k for my brand new 1992 25th Anniversary Z28. The good old days!
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:16 PM   #780
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What's exotic about an 8 year old z06 motor that makes less power then what's in the zl1? Also, exotic does not mean better or faster but always means MORE EXPENSIVE! I see no benefit in exotic whatoever if it reduces a z28 to 1500 copies, 36% price premium over zl1 and if not for the uber tires, not much (if any) performance edge.
^^ I couldn't have said it better. The reasons listed above are a lot of the problems I have had with this car and the price. It just doesn't make sense to me to price it so high and claim all of these measures have been made to make it , lighter,and faster. When in fact it hasn't been properly compared to ZL1. In which it may not be faster than or not by much on equal footing. To me there are just a lot of things that just doesn't make sense to me about this whole car.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:16 PM   #781
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I remember paying 22k for my brand new 1992 25th Anniversary Z28. The good old days!
Yeah the good old days....,

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The Z28 version of the 1992 Chevy Camaro was built with performance in mind and an upgraded engine was part of that picture. While the standard 1992 Camaro is powered by a V6, the Z28 features a 5.0-liter V8 that delivers 205 horsepower, compared to the V6's 140. A five-speed manual overdrive transmission is standard, but a four-speed automatic overdrive was available as an option. The EPA rated the Z28 at 16 mpg city and 26 mpg highway with the manual and 16/25 with automatic.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:25 PM   #782
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What's exotic about an 8 year old z06 motor that makes less power then what's in the zl1? Also, exotic does not mean better or faster but always means MORE EXPENSIVE! I see no benefit in exotic whatoever if it reduces a z28 to 1500 copies, 36% price premium over zl1 and if not for the uber tires, not much (if any) performance edge.
Do some research on the LS7. It is well documented. It's hand built and therefore low volume.

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^^ I couldn't have said it better. The reasons listed above are a lot of the problems I have had with this car and the price. It just doesn't make sense to me to price it so high and claim all of these measures have been made to make it , lighter,and faster. When in fact it hasn't been properly compared to ZL1. In which it may not be faster than or not by much on equal footing. To me there are just a lot of things that just doesn't make sense to me about this whole car.
When the Z/28 is complete and fully released the performance figures will speak for themselves. The comparisons will come once they are further along and I'm sure the gaps between the ZL1 will widen.
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