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Old 07-21-2009, 08:20 PM   #1
speedy6963
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100% stock retuned for e85

Gained 25whp in the midrange and 20whp at the peak, nice gains for $2.00/gallon fuel


NOTE:

Just to state this so everyone is clear, DO NOT PUT E85 in your new camaro, it will void your warranty, and will not run properly without a tune specificaly for the fuel.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:25 PM   #2
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You mean to tell me that you get more HP from E85 than plain 93 octain!

And you cant get that stuff on Long Island!!
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:55 PM   #3
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very cool. now get some new 1/4 times...
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:16 PM   #4
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:42 AM   #5
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don't you need to change out fuel lines and injectors because of materiel before running E85

or is the camaro all ready ok and fine to do so


but still sweet good job
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:12 AM   #6
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You mean to tell me that you get more HP from E85 than plain 93 octain!

And you cant get that stuff on Long Island!!
Somebody correct me if im wrong but E85 is supposed to have a higher equivalent octane rating... something like 104.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:44 AM   #7
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Somebody correct me if im wrong but E85 is supposed to have a higher equivalent octane rating... something like 104.
Correct, but there are drawbacks to running E85

One, it is very corrosive.

Two, you need a lot more of it to do the job, so unless the stock injectors can flow enough to do so, you may have to do an injector swap

Three, the lubricating properties of Ethanol is not as good as gasoline, so expect the life expectancy of pumps, lines, intake valves, etc to be shortened

Four, unless you adjust the spark timing more aggressively you won't make any more power

Five, catalytic coverters hate em

And lastely, you get worse MPG with it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:47 PM   #8
speedy6963
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Correct, but there are drawbacks to running E85

One, it is very corrosive.

Two, you need a lot more of it to do the job, so unless the stock injectors can flow enough to do so, you may have to do an injector swap

Three, the lubricating properties of Ethanol is not as good as gasoline, so expect the life expectancy of pumps, lines, intake valves, etc to be shortened

Four, unless you adjust the spark timing more aggressively you won't make any more power

Five, catalytic coverters hate em

And lastely, you get worse MPG with it.
1. E85 is not highly corrosive, you are thinking of Methanol

2. Need about 30% more and the stock camaro injectors are up to the task

3. Pump and lines on cars built before 1990 have issues, newer stuff works fine

4. E85 with its 105 octane will allow you to run more timing ( and on turbo applications MORE BOOST, i personally have made over 730whp on a 2.0 4 cylinder using E85 )

5. more dissinformation, catalytic converters have ZERO issues with e85

6. only worse mpg on engines not purpose built to run e85 ( with 14-1 compression or turbo )

I personally have been running e85 in 1 car or another since 1999
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #9
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1. E85 is not highly corrosive, you are thinking of Methanol

2. Need about 30% more and the stock camaro injectors are up to the task

3. Pump and lines on cars built before 1990 have issues, newer stuff works fine

4. E85 with its 105 octane will allow you to run more timing ( and on turbo applications MORE BOOST, i personally have made over 730whp on a 2.0 4 cylinder using E85 )

5. more dissinformation, catalytic converters have ZERO issues with e85

6. only worse mpg on engines not purpose built to run e85 ( with 14-1 compression or turbo )

I personally have been running e85 in 1 car or another since 1999

I agree with everything you say but #6 (MPG). I think eventually the tech will be there, but we aren't quite there yet. I pulled this from the wiki (I know shouldn't rely on it, but it has been also stated on othere sites (consumer reports test etc):

Ethanol-based engines
Ethanol is most commonly used to power automobiles, though it may be used to power other vehicles, such as farm tractors and airplanes. Ethanol (E100) consumption in an engine is approximately 51% higher than for gasoline since the energy per unit volume of ethanol is 34% lower than for gasoline.[16][17] However, the higher compression ratios in an ethanol-only engine allow for increased power output and better fuel economy than could be obtained with lower compression ratios.[18][19] In general, ethanol-only engines are tuned to give slightly better power and torque output than gasoline-powered engines. In flexible fuel vehicles, the lower compression ratio requires tunings that give the same output when using either gasoline or hydrated ethanol. For maximum use of ethanol's benefits, a much higher compression ratio should be used,[20] which would render that engine unsuitable for gasoline use. When ethanol fuel availability allows high-compression ethanol-only vehicles to be practical, the fuel efficiency of such engines should be equal to or greater than current gasoline engines. Current high compression ethanol-only engine designs are approximately 20-30% less fuel efficient than their gasoline-only counterparts.[21]

A 2004 MIT study[22] and an earlier paper published by the Society of Automotive Engineers[23] identify a method to exploit the characteristics of fuel ethanol substantially better than mixing it with gasoline. The method presents the possibility of leveraging the use of alcohol to achieve definite improvement over the cost-effectiveness of hybrid electric. The improvement consists of using dual-fuel direct-injection of pure alcohol (or the azeotrope or E85) and gasoline, in any ratio up to 100% of either, in a turbocharged, high compression-ratio, small-displacement engine having performance similar to an engine having twice the displacement. Each fuel is carried separately, with a much smaller tank for alcohol. The high-compression (which increases efficiency) engine will run on ordinary gasoline under low-power cruise conditions. Alcohol is directly injected into the cylinders (and the gasoline injection simultaneously reduced) only when necessary to suppress ‘knock’ such as when significantly accelerating. Direct cylinder injection raises the already high octane rating of ethanol up to an effective 130. The calculated over-all reduction of gasoline use and CO2 emission is 30%. The consumer cost payback time shows a 4:1 improvement over turbo-diesel and a 5:1 improvement over hybrid. In addition, the problems of water absorption into pre-mixed gasoline (causing phase separation), supply issues of multiple mix ratios and cold-weather starting are avoided.

Ethanol's higher octane rating allows an increase of an engine's compression ratio for increased thermal efficiency.[18] In one study, complex engine controls and increased exhaust gas recirculation allowed a compression ratio of 19.5 with fuels ranging from neat ethanol to E50. Thermal efficiency up to approximately that for a diesel was achieved.[24] This would result in the MPG (miles per gallon) of a dedicated ethanol vehicle to be about the same as one burning gasoline.

Since 1989 there have also been ethanol engines based on the diesel principle operating in Sweden.[25] They are used primarily in city buses, but also in distribution trucks and waste collectors. The engines, made by Scania, have a modified compression ratio, and the fuel (known as ED95) used is a mix of 93.6 % ethanol and 3.6 % ignition improver, and 2.8% denaturants.[26] The ignition improver makes it possible for the fuel to ignite in the diesel combustion cycle. It is then also possible to use the energy efficiency of the diesel principle with ethanol.


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Old 07-22-2009, 05:24 PM   #10
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So am I understanding this correctly? When I get my camaro I can put E85 in there without changing ANYTHING in the car and I will have MORE HP and torque but less MPG? I thought cars had to have that ''flex fuel" or some s**t in order to run it lol
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:30 PM   #11
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blown, you can not just dump e85 in it. His post said he got his motor tuned for e85.

thus more likely voiding your power train warrenty.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:33 PM   #12
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blown, you can not just dump e85 in it. His post said he got his motor tuned for e85.

thus more likely voiding your power train warrenty.
thanks thats what I figured, I thought maybe you can just dump it in but needed to retune to see gains. thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:36 PM   #13
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My Tahoe is flex fuel and I use E85 in it regularly. It averages a 17% loss in MPG, but when saving 50 cents a gallon or more, it's worth it!!
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:07 PM   #14
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My Tahoe is flex fuel and I use E85 in it regularly. It averages a 17% loss in MPG, but when saving 50 cents a gallon or more, it's worth it!!

barely. thats the trade-off with E85.

yes, it costs less,
but you will see a loss in mpg.

do the math on how much you are spending vs the mileage for e85 vs gasoline. probably wont be much in the long run.
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