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Old 01-19-2014, 06:02 PM   #35
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Z/28.R is the same purpose built $300k-500k race car as the current one (Camaro racecar) is. Nothing to be excited or upset about. Nothing shared with street Z/28 other than "Z/28" (as with all racecars named after their production cousins for example BOSS302R/S and other Mustangs).
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Yes, however every street-able car is modified to some degree for racing of whatever type. Sometimes even the rules are changed to admit a car. "The" Ford enthusiast is just way over the top in his assumptions.
Looks like I need to prepare small appetizer portion of delicious crow for myself based upon the Stevenson testing pic posted elsewhere, the aero looks to be OE Z/28. So that is good and I suppose makes sense given the testing the engineering team put into aero.

I'll be glad and proud to eat a larger portion if the drivetrain carries over essentially intact from the street car. That would be a shock. Ok, back on topic for this thread!
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:50 PM   #36
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Looks like I need to prepare small appetizer portion of delicious crow for myself based upon the Stevenson testing pic posted elsewhere, the aero looks to be OE Z/28. So that is good and I suppose makes sense given the testing the engineering team put into aero.

I'll be glad and proud to eat a larger portion if the drivetrain carries over essentially intact from the street car. That would be a shock. Ok, back on topic for this thread!
It'Z all good!

I think it will have the LS7 (detuned). Not the brakes (they wouldn't fit anyway).
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:00 AM   #37
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...to the OP, sorry, track days *period* is not the total sum of the equation. It has a VIN. Perhaps if it were like the COPO, which it is not, then your premise would be sound. We get your point, but....it still has a dual purpose use. You know what I'm sayin....
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:41 AM   #38
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I figure this is the right thread to ask in, is there any reading material on if the car is covered for track days? I see people saying the car is warrantied for racing but I haven't read anything, would it be in their warranty guide book that comes with the car?
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:48 AM   #39
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I figure this is the right thread to ask in, is there any reading material on if the car is covered for track days? I see people saying the car is warrantied for racing but I haven't read anything, would it be in their warranty guide book that comes with the car?
As good a thread as any to ask

It is critical to clearly understand the terminology:

The car is not warranted for "racing". Racing for the purpose of this conversation can be defined as car-to-car competition for position/place (1st,2nd,etc) or Time Trials which is car to car but is competition for lowest time (fastest lap) not position.

The car is warranted for non-competitive track days also known as HPDE, DE, PDX where the car is driven on a track with no limit to speed, for pleasure only (no prize, no lap time competition, no position competition).

This will be spelled out legally in the owners manual but has been specifically noted by many GM representatives in the media (print and videos). I've had email contact with a GM rep who is well known specifically stating non-racing track coverage for mechanical failure.

Same coverage as publicly stated for ZL1 track use.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:15 AM   #40
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As good a thread as any to ask

It is critical to clearly understand the terminology:

The car is not warranted for "racing". Racing for the purpose of this conversation can be defined as car-to-car competition for position/place (1st,2nd,etc) or Time Trials which is car to car but is competition for lowest time (fastest lap) not position.

The car is warranted for non-competitive track days also known as HPDE, DE, PDX where the car is driven on a track with no limit to speed, for pleasure only (no prize, no lap time competition, no position competition).

This will be spelled out legally in the owners manual but has been specifically noted by many GM representatives in the media (print and videos). I've had email contact with a GM rep who is well known specifically stating non-racing track coverage for mechanical failure.

Same coverage as publicly stated for ZL1 track use.
Interesting....always wonder about this....even "non-racing" events still post lap times, in order, sort of like a "first place to last place" list...a faster lap time gets you placed towards the front of your run group...kind of makes it "competitive".....lol...

seems "racing" could be not totally clearly defined....or subject to interpretation....maybe not so bad for mechanical warranty as opposed (and hopefully not confused) with insurance and liability...lol....
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:09 PM   #41
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Interesting....always wonder about this....even "non-racing" events still post lap times, in order, sort of like a "first place to last place" list...a faster lap time gets you placed towards the front of your run group...kind of makes it "competitive".....lol...

seems "racing" could be not totally clearly defined....or subject to interpretation....maybe not so bad for mechanical warranty as opposed (and hopefully not confused) with insurance and liability...lol....
An event host publicly displaying timing sheets runs the risk of causing their attendees track collision insurance (if they have it) to be voided. I understand exactly what you are referring to, for example Speed Ventures does that. It's still an HPDE event as the times are not for the explicit purpose of scoring a competitive event. A manufacturer should understand this as well and therefore these times should not affect warranty.

Cars in a Time Attack type event where cars run explicitly competitively for time would usually not be covered by warranty. Maybe you get lucky and the dealer covers it, but the door is open for a decline.

In regards to insurance (vs warranty): Anyone driving their car on a "racing surface" for any reason would be strongly advised to contact their insurance agent beforehand or to plan on being self-insured from the moment they do until they leave the "surface". There are a couple insurance companies who explicitly cover HPDE events such as Lockton-Affinity.

Someone will want to argue this but the 99% true fact is, unless your insurance extends incredible one-time goodwill, street insurance will not cover on-track crash damage.

None of this should a grey area for a given event when subjected to objective consideration, it should be easy and straightforward for a driver to determine what kind of risk he is subjecting himself to for a given event. An on-track crash, not covered by insurance, of a financed car can be a catastrophically life changing event. Don't trust internet know-it-alls, do your homework.

I've personally done over 100 track days with a variety of hosts and I've hosted my own events so what I write is from that perspective.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:35 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
An event host publicly displaying timing sheets runs the risk of causing their attendees track collision insurance (if they have it) to be voided. I understand exactly what you are referring to, for example Speed Ventures does that. It's still an HPDE event as the times are not for the explicit purpose of scoring a competitive event. A manufacturer should understand this as well and therefore these times should not affect warranty.

Cars in a Time Attack type event where cars run explicitly competitively for time would usually not be covered by warranty. Maybe you get lucky and the dealer covers it, but the door is open for a decline.

In regards to insurance (vs warranty): Anyone driving their car on a "racing surface" for any reason would be strongly advised to contact their insurance agent beforehand or to plan on being self-insured from the moment they do until they leave the "surface". There are a couple insurance companies who explicitly cover HPDE events such as Lockton-Affinity.

Someone will want to argue this but the 99% true fact is, unless your insurance extends incredible one-time goodwill, street insurance will not cover on-track crash damage.

None of this should a grey area for a given event when subjected to objective consideration, it should be easy and straightforward for a driver to determine what kind of risk he is putting himself into for a given event. An on-track crash, not covered by insurance, of a financed car can be a catastrophically life changing event. Don't trust internet know-it-alls, do your homework.

I've personally done over 100 track days with a variety of hosts and I've hosted my own events so what I write is from that perspective.
Superior advice.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
An event host publicly displaying timing sheets runs the risk of causing their attendees track collision insurance (if they have it) to be voided. I understand exactly what you are referring to, for example Speed Ventures does that. It's still an HPDE event as the times are not for the explicit purpose of scoring a competitive event. A manufacturer should understand this as well and therefore these times should not affect warranty.

Cars in a Time Attack type event where cars run explicitly competitively for time would usually not be covered by warranty. Maybe you get lucky and the dealer covers it, but the door is open for a decline.

In regards to insurance (vs warranty): Anyone driving their car on a "racing surface" for any reason would be strongly advised to contact their insurance agent beforehand or to plan on being self-insured from the moment they do until they leave the "surface". There are a couple insurance companies who explicitly cover HPDE events such as Lockton-Affinity.

Someone will want to argue this but the 99% true fact is, unless your insurance extends incredible one-time goodwill, street insurance will not cover on-track crash damage.

None of this should a grey area for a given event when subjected to objective consideration, it should be easy and straightforward for a driver to determine what kind of risk he is putting himself into for a given event. An on-track crash, not covered by insurance, of a financed car can be a catastrophically life changing event. Don't trust internet know-it-alls, do your homework.

I've personally done over 100 track days with a variety of hosts and I've hosted my own events so what I write is from that perspective.
Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off). Very few, if any, insurance providers today cover HPDE events, timing or no timing.

Locton Affinity HPDE Insurance does cover HPDE events with transponders (like Speed Ventures events) provided you don't participate in a time trial. The other HPDE insurance provider that I spoke with will not cover your car if you have a transponder and times are posted, even if you aren't participating in a time trial. For this reason I use Locton.

My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:06 PM   #44
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Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off). Very few, if any, insurance providers today cover HPDE events, timing or no timing.

Locton Affinity HPDE Insurance does cover HPDE events with transponders (like Speed Ventures events) provided you don't participate in a time trial. The other HPDE insurance provider that I spoke with will not cover your car if you have a transponder and times are posted, even if you aren't participating in a time trial. For this reason I use Locton.

My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
Excellent points!

I've had a variety of contact with the folks at Lockton, the guy behind their program is a tracker and an awesome person. I'd recommend Lockton to anyone without hesitation. You can also buy multiple event coverage at deep discounts.

Some tracks it is compelling to self-insure- lots of runoff or apron. Other tracks, your example Laguna Seca, eat cars at every event.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:20 PM   #45
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Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off).
My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
Hey! I just noticed your sig line- out of curiosity, what does your car run at Thunderhill? Either bypass or over the top? No judgement on your driving just trying to get a feeling for what a 1LE does there so I can make a better guess what the Z/28 will do.

I'd guess you run 2:10-2:15 over the top? I'm thinking the Z does 1:58 over the top? What do you think?

I read your post from July, good thread! I love running with Hooked on Driving, they are a great host. David Ray is such an incredible human being
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:40 PM   #46
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Hey! I just noticed your sig line- out of curiosity, what does your car run at Thunderhill? Either bypass or over the top? No judgement on your driving just trying to get a feeling for what a 1LE does there so I can make a better guess what the Z/28 will do.

I'd guess you run 2:10-2:15 over the top? I'm thinking the Z does 1:58 over the top? What do you think?

I read your post from July, good thread! I love running with Hooked on Driving, they are a great host. David Ray is such an incredible human being
Good question, I didn't time the Camaro when I ran it but had a lot of fun. I also have a Viper. I took the Viper there, first time in the Viper on any track and I ran a 2:05.4 in 107 degree weather. I've only run Thunderhill those two times, both times were over the top. I'm guessing the Z/28 would be under 2:10 with a good driver, maybe closer to 2:05, but I don't think it could dip below 2:00. That would really flying on that track for a stock car. Can't wait to get back there! Do you track there now, and if so what do you drive and what are your times?

Yes David's a great guy. In fact, I'm going to the HOD 10th Anniversary Party this Saturday.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:03 PM   #47
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Good question, I didn't time the Camaro when I ran it but had a lot of fun. I also have a Viper. I took the Viper there, first time in the Viper on any track and I ran a 2:05.4 in 107 degree weather. I've only run Thunderhill those two times, both times were over the top. I'm guessing the Z/28 would be under 2:10 with a good driver, maybe closer to 2:05, but I don't think it could dip below 2:00. That would really flying on that track for a stock car. Can't wait to get back there! Do you track there now, and if so what do you drive and what are your times?

Yes David's a great guy. In fact, I'm going to the HOD 10th Anniversary Party this Saturday.
Viper, wow, bold brave man you are What a handful.

My last time there was two years ago in a GT3RS on Trofeos. My best, and I am not a fast guy at that track was 2:01. My pals in GT3's on R6's run 1:57/1:58 and they are good drivers. I think the downforce of the Z helps it there, and in combo with the fat torque combined with the traction control to launch it out of the corners will put it under 2:00 bone stock.

Reno-Fernley is my home track and I am relatively quick there (know it very well). So that's going to be my touchstone comparison for the Z vs other cars I've driven.

Fast sweepers (Thunderhill) the Z should be quite quick. Transitions and more technical tracks (Reno-Fernley) is where I am concerned the weight will hurt. But I'm open minded. Regardless, listening to that 427 soundtrack and looking at that pretty body will be worth every penny

If you think to, tell David and Don that Pete said hello and I'll see them in the spring. I got the email invite to the party, looks awesome!
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:20 PM   #48
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Viper, wow, bold brave man you are What a handful.

My last time there was two years ago in a GT3RS on Trofeos. My best, and I am not a fast guy at that track was 2:01. My pals in GT3's on R6's run 1:57/1:58 and they are good drivers. I think the downforce of the Z helps it there, and in combo with the fat torque combined with the traction control to launch it out of the corners will put it under 2:00 bone stock.

Reno-Fernley is my home track and I am relatively quick there (know it very well). So that's going to be my touchstone comparison for the Z vs other cars I've driven.

Fast sweepers (Thunderhill) the Z should be quite quick. Transitions and more technical tracks (Reno-Fernley) is where I am concerned the weight will hurt. But I'm open minded. Regardless, listening to that 427 soundtrack and looking at that pretty body will be worth every penny

If you think to, tell David and Don that Pete said hello and I'll see them in the spring. I got the email invite to the party, looks awesome!
Man that's cooking, were the Porsches all bone stock other than the tires? Impressive. I'm still getting to know the track but can't wait to return. You've now set a new bar for me to aim for

I looked up Thunderhill on Fastlaps and if it weren't for the R6's your friends would take the production car record (if in fact Fastlaps is current, which it may not be).

My Viper is definitely difficult if the rear end comes loose, harder to save than my Camaro. But it is such an awesome car with very high limits. A very rewarding driving experience. Mines' a 2013, so it's easier to track than previous gens, and it finally has a safety net - ESC.

I'll tell them you said hello, and hopefully we'll meet up one day.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:57 PM   #49
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The REAL "Z", Dual Use, UNLIMITED, 1000 clutch dumps at the drags, 7:41 at the Ring ..... is the ANSWER to everyones plights mentioned.... IMHO.

You all know what that is. Most Capable Street/Strip/Track car ever produced with a Camaro name on it.

ZL1. "Period"

Now, Go buy one if you haven't already. You will receive all the "extras" the most "track capable" Camaro ever does not, and in many cases, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you will likely show it your taillights. In the world 98% of Camaro owners live in .. that is.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:17 PM   #50
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...you'll see more of them at the coffee clutch than the track.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:18 PM   #51
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The REAL "Z", Dual Use, UNLIMITED, 1000 clutch dumps at the drags, 7:41 at the Ring ..... is the ANSWER to everyones plights mentioned.... IMHO.

You all know what that is. Most Capable Street/Strip/Track car ever produced with a Camaro name on it.

ZL1. "Period"

Now, Go buy one if you haven't already. You will receive all the "extras" the most "track capable" Camaro ever does not, and in many cases, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you will likely show it your taillights. In the world 98% of Camaro owners live in .. that is.
I got my SS about a year before the ZL1 came out....Thought about waiting for one, but now glad I didn't....For some reason hardly any ZL1s show up for auto-x, or even aftermarket supercharged SSs, they just can't seem to stay planted on the track without spinning out.....Only seen one ZL1 on a big track, (and it crashed)....The drags are fun, I've done it a bunch, but not worth buying a ZL-1 just for that....Just my preferences, as with anyone else's....

The Camaro world I see is more 98% SS and V-6...lol....a lot of "inexpensive" fun...
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