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Old 01-10-2014, 03:21 PM   #26
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You see, according to Cocteau's plan... I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes who likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-O all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener." You live up top, you live Cocteau's way: what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Your other choice: come down here... and maybe starve to death
I was sitting in a restaurant one morning with my coffee and a cigarette when a waitress came to remind me that I couldn't sit in that section and smoke. So I stood up.

My friends still give me a shoulder punch when I mention that.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:22 PM   #27
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In summary, if there is nationwide surveillance anytime soon, it'll be mediocre at best and it won't be effective. If it ever happens, though, I still expect Americans not to tolerate it.
too bad most people are at home watching American Idol or some other crappy show, and couldn't care less.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:29 PM   #28
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45th's log, week 12....this a-hole still hasn't started me, or moved me in the slightest. I can't see a thing due to this cover. Wonder when I'll see the outside again...
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:02 PM   #29
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I don't mind the blackbox for crashes. If it is my fault, I accept that. In fact if it helps prove the other guy was at fault, great.

However I don't like the snooping on my location in realtime unless I permit it. AFAIK this is only done through an OnStar style service or mobile phone networks plumbed into a car WIFI. Those things can be disconnected. I think we should look more into the context of the quote from Ford to see if it was specific to the Ford Sync, etc.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:18 PM   #30
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Let's say every car got surveillance. Someone would have to observe all those cars, so a whole lot of people would suddenly have low-paying jobs where all they do is see if someone is speeding or driving against the rules. These people would have the most monotonous, boring jobs out there, and they'd barely be paying their bills. Do you think these guys would produce quality work? Do you think they'd be awesome at stopping people from breaking road rules, or do you think they'd be overwhelmed that almost every driver drives above the speed limit, rolls a stop sign, or fails to use their blinker at least once a day?

On top of that, there's the infrastructure investment that would be necessary. Watching every American drive every day will take more data processing than current wireless networks can handle. Even if we all put our phones down and never used WiFi again, there still isn't enough bandwidth to handle every car during rush hour in every major city, and you can forget about rural areas that have poor data connections.

That leaves us with an almost inevitable scandal. Surveillance supervisors will try to prioritize vehicles that are more likely to break driving rules. It would lead to a scandal where some whistleblower would claim that only people in fast cars or only people under 25 years old would be busted. We, as Americans, would be faced with a decision. Do we accept age discrimination the same way that we do with auto insurance or discrimination based on our freedom to choose a fast car, or do we challenge surveillance of American citizens?

I'll leave that to you.

In summary, if there is nationwide surveillance anytime soon, it'll be mediocre at best and it won't be effective. If it ever happens, though, I still expect Americans not to tolerate it.
Hate to burst your bubble but this can be done now with very little overhead. The scenario where your location, speed, and direction are sent every second is not too much overhead for mobile networks. Each data package is very small. We're talking about perhaps 64 bits (8 bytes) of data + 60 bytes of networking wrappers for a total of 124-ish bytes. Storing the data is not a problem either for the same reasons, though it could be limited to the last hour or 24 hours before rolling it over.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:21 PM   #31
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So since I have a security camera focused on my car and the Onstar app to keep track of the mileage and stuff I guess you could say I am spying on my car.....
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:30 PM   #32
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45th's log, week 12....this a-hole still hasn't started me, or moved me in the slightest. I can't see a thing due to this cover. Wonder when I'll see the outside again...


You know this idea just hit me with the new Performance Data Recorder in the C7 Z06. The amount of information that thing can give you is amazing and it has a camera recording your moves when enabled and it is a wifi hot spot. I'm wondering when people will start hacking cars or putting viruses on them. Imagine having to but McAfee Virus Scan for your Camaro

-kerry
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:37 PM   #33
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Hate to burst your bubble but this can be done now with very little overhead. The scenario where your location, speed, and direction are sent every second is not too much overhead for mobile networks. Each data package is very small. We're talking about perhaps 64 bits (8 bytes) of data + 60 bytes of networking wrappers for a total of 124-ish bytes. Storing the data is not a problem either for the same reasons, though it could be limited to the last hour or 24 hours before rolling it over.
Who is doing the storage and processing of all this data though? Sending it is not an issue, but the backend would be something that no one would want to do for free, hell, we have a fairly large and high end datacenter on site and I can just imagine presenting this to management, the blank stares would be like lasers.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:15 PM   #34
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I hate to say it but I bet OnStar is doing the same damn thing in GM cars, they're just not dumb enough to say it to the press.
Bingo! This is why I cancelled OnStar and the insurance "drive safe" thing. OnStar knows exactly how you drive at any time, and reports to your insurance company if you are on the program. DON'T DO IT!
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:54 PM   #35
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If it comes to this, I envision the same senario as red light cameras. A company owns and operates the system, mails you a ticket and keeps 70-80% of the revenue.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:40 PM   #36
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This is why I am weary in participating fully in the drive safe program. I got 6 months free of OnStar and told them I'd join in, little did they know, I did not call my insurance :P. I lost out on another free 6 months but it ain't worth higher insurance costs hehe

And as far as I know so long as OnStar is active they know exactly where you are at all times, the GPS works both ways, to direct you and for OnStar to be able to find you. In addition they know you're speed, they know how many miles you have till you are empty, they know your oil life, they know if you have a flat tire, etc etc

There's even a microphone in the car!

You can't walk around life being afraid of all this, this is our society now, it came with all the technology that we love.... smart phones are more dangerous than our cars.....
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:00 PM   #37
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Not too worry about the car spying on me
But the wife , and the car being on the same plan spying on one , that's a full load of crape
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:45 PM   #38
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Simple:
- Street racing is illegal and dangerous to more than yourself. If the box can detect it, catch them.
- Track racing is going to let your insurance company off the hook if you wreck it. If you tow the car somewhere and say it was hit, that is fraud...book um Dan O!
- Nobody is reporting you for cruising (or speeding) at this point...if you want to do the typical 10 mph over, do it....the little black box will not get you the ticket, the nice Police Officer will.

This is so much like the people posting threats to Facebook if their information they post on social media gets leaked on social media...if you don't want to get caught, don't do it.

Everyone acts like they are living a life in the CIA and every part of it should be secret, yet they post every bit of it on social media! If you want to live the super-secret squirrel life, that is cool…give up your iPhone, computer, satellite TV (with the Smart TV functions), etc…but (or build so no one else knows where it is) a house in the mountains somewhere. Grow your own food so the frequent buyer cards you use at Food Lion does not let anyone know what items you are eating…and live the quite life.

Now, am I one of those CIA spies that are looking into your every move? Nope…Do I want the government knowing every time I have sex? Nope…So, if I put it on social media, I expect others to know about it. If I speed on the roads, I expect that someone could find out. If tracking an idiot driving over 100 mph on the street saves my daughter’s life because he/she was busted before running a red light and T-Boning her car, would I be happy? You dang skippy!
Yes Obey your master , Any violation should be penalised , maybe there should be a satellite on every car and person , and every time you go
over the speed limit or not hit your turn signal , or do a rolling stop , you should receive a ticket and fine and should have to pay the penalty , More laws and fines that is the answer
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Let's say every car got surveillance. Someone would have to observe all those cars, so a whole lot of people would suddenly have low-paying jobs where all they do is see if someone is speeding or driving against the rules. These people would have the most monotonous, boring jobs out there, and they'd barely be paying their bills. Do you think these guys would produce quality work? Do you think they'd be awesome at stopping people from breaking road rules, or do you think they'd be overwhelmed that almost every driver drives above the speed limit, rolls a stop sign, or fails to use their blinker at least once a day?

On top of that, there's the infrastructure investment that would be necessary. Watching every American drive every day will take more data processing than current wireless networks can handle. Even if we all put our phones down and never used WiFi again, there still isn't enough bandwidth to handle every car during rush hour in every major city, and you can forget about rural areas that have poor data connections.

That leaves us with an almost inevitable scandal. Surveillance supervisors will try to prioritize vehicles that are more likely to break driving rules. It would lead to a scandal where some whistleblower would claim that only people in fast cars or only people under 25 years old would be busted. We, as Americans, would be faced with a decision. Do we accept age discrimination the same way that we do with auto insurance or discrimination based on our freedom to choose a fast car, or do we challenge surveillance of American citizens?

I'll leave that to you.

In summary, if there is nationwide surveillance anytime soon, it'll be mediocre at best and it won't be effective. If it ever happens, though, I still expect Americans not to tolerate it.
There wouldn't be a need to pay workers to sit around all day. It would take me all of 10 minutes to program an application to automatically ping the police anytime a vehicle exceeds a speed limit. Could go one step further and just automatically issue a citation by mail.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:22 PM   #40
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So if you want to be off the grid, go. If you don't care use the soc sites.

I know they are watching, and I could give 3 shits. I'm a law abiding citizen, so they are pretty bored watching me all the time. I don't do anything illegal(I don't consider speeding and defaulted loans illegal activity, hence the difference between commercial and consumer loans.).

Look for the money. Seek the sources of these spying activities, see who's footing the bills, and you'll know why. FBI, CIA, NSA; does it matter? Most Americans aren't doing anything. It's all part of the marketing plan. Sell sell sell. Now if they detect illegal activity then by all means arrest, but make it stick. I mean arms drugs bombs. Terrorist activity. Nip it in the bud.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:40 PM   #41
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In addition to insurance companies tracking mileage...They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over.

"This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do," said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. "There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it."
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:47 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Let's say every car got surveillance. Someone would have to observe all those cars, so a whole lot of people would suddenly have low-paying jobs where all they do is see if someone is speeding or driving against the rules. These people would have the most monotonous, boring jobs out there, and they'd barely be paying their bills. Do you think these guys would produce quality work? Do you think they'd be awesome at stopping people from breaking road rules, or do you think they'd be overwhelmed that almost every driver drives above the speed limit, rolls a stop sign, or fails to use their blinker at least once a day?

On top of that, there's the infrastructure investment that would be necessary. Watching every American drive every day will take more data processing than current wireless networks can handle. Even if we all put our phones down and never used WiFi again, there still isn't enough bandwidth to handle every car during rush hour in every major city, and you can forget about rural areas that have poor data connections.

That leaves us with an almost inevitable scandal. Surveillance supervisors will try to prioritize vehicles that are more likely to break driving rules. It would lead to a scandal where some whistleblower would claim that only people in fast cars or only people under 25 years old would be busted. We, as Americans, would be faced with a decision. Do we accept age discrimination the same way that we do with auto insurance or discrimination based on our freedom to choose a fast car, or do we challenge surveillance of American citizens?

I'll leave that to you.

In summary, if there is nationwide surveillance anytime soon, it'll be mediocre at best and it won't be effective. If it ever happens, though, I still expect Americans not to tolerate it.
Incorrect....

A simple algorithm with Google maps could track this data and issue tickets based on the post speed limit and how fast your going. Google = Skynet!
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:51 PM   #43
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Incorrect....

A simple algorithm with Google maps could track this data and issue tickets based on the post speed limit and how fast your going. Google = Skynet!
Then couldn't they also adjust your speed limiter remotely to the speed limit so nobody would ever speed again?
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:00 PM   #44
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Haha! Not in SC. Exception- under a state of emergency via the president or governor of SC, they can use this method. However, the arresting officer must PERSONALLY hand you any remote camera ticket within one hour to you. So basically no camera tickets...at least not yet.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/31/3176.asp
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Earthshaker6 View Post
Simple:
- Street racing is illegal and dangerous to more than yourself. If the box can detect it, catch them.
- Track racing is going to let your insurance company off the hook if you wreck it. If you tow the car somewhere and say it was hit, that is fraud...book um Dan O!
- Nobody is reporting you for cruising (or speeding) at this point...if you want to do the typical 10 mph over, do it....the little black box will not get you the ticket, the nice Police Officer will.

This is so much like the people posting threats to Facebook if their information they post on social media gets leaked on social media...if you don't want to get caught, don't do it.

Everyone acts like they are living a life in the CIA and every part of it should be secret, yet they post every bit of it on social media! If you want to live the super-secret squirrel life, that is cool…give up your iPhone, computer, satellite TV (with the Smart TV functions), etc…but (or build so no one else knows where it is) a house in the mountains somewhere. Grow your own food so the frequent buyer cards you use at Food Lion does not let anyone know what items you are eating…and live the quite life.

Now, am I one of those CIA spies that are looking into your every move? Nope…Do I want the government knowing every time I have sex? Nope…So, if I put it on social media, I expect others to know about it. If I speed on the roads, I expect that someone could find out. If tracking an idiot driving over 100 mph on the street saves my daughter’s life because he/she was busted before running a red light and T-Boning her car, would I be happy? You dang skippy!
I've done every thing on your list..maybe twice..come get me...remember I can track you as well. Maybe I'm watching you right now...don't look out your window. That's not me in that inferno orange camaro with white stripes....damn I should have driven the civic instead.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:31 PM   #46
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If my car ever started spying on me (and no way to opt out), I would have to let it go, or smash that part of the system, pull the fuse, whatever. I want my privacy and why I live so far away from the city I work and why I don't do Onstar. Except for my cell phone, which I don't use much of, I had practically no footprint other than checking email, Autozone rewards card, Lowes card, Camaro5 vendor shopping, Netflix, Delta flights, - jeez - I do have a bigger footprint than I thought! Now that I have the Camaro, I am on this forum all the time and have now posted a few vidoes on youtube, which I said I would never do.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:50 PM   #47
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In addition to insurance companies tracking mileage...They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over.

"This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do," said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. "There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it."
This is being proposed in Oregon. Tax by the mile instead of gas tax. Last I heard they had not figured the best way to do it. Some want recorders in the vehicle.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:19 AM   #48
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With the connectivity that consumers desire, the loss of privacy rears it's ugly head. If you want your car(or cell phone, or modern GPS units, or newer Radar detectors) to keep you up to date all the time, others will know where you are ALL OF THE TIME. Banning how this information is used/shared should be the focus of any new regulations. I would hate to have my wife's attorney be able to find my mistress by my driving habits.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:49 AM   #49
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You know this idea just hit me with the new Performance Data Recorder in the C7 Z06. The amount of information that thing can give you is amazing and it has a camera recording your moves when enabled and it is a wifi hot spot. I'm wondering when people will start hacking cars or putting viruses on them. Imagine having to but McAfee Virus Scan for your Camaro

-kerry
Time to crawl out from under your rock…

Note the date of this article: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sci...ry?id=11448163
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:21 AM   #50
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I say if they have the technology to know if you are speeding and are able to have the ability to inform law enforcement, the are liable as an accessory for building a car that allows you to exceed the speed limit in that particular area. Works both ways, and in addition if it is not disclosed, it would be considered entrapment.
I totally agree with this. What's the use selling someone a bullet on 4 wheels ,running that car on the ring posting it's accomplished lap times and then putting that customer in a such a compromised position. I might as well go back to my 944 that cornered better anyways and just put an LS3 under the hood, cam it and not install Onstar. Also if that's the case why not limit the car at all times like say keep us at 65 mph on the highway so we don't have to worry about tickets, 30 mph in 30 zones and so on then remove that limiting ability when we hit the track.
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