Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Bigwormgraphix
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-15-2014, 12:23 AM   #1
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
Don't think you need a 3-bolt cam?

Don't think you need a 3-bolt cam? Think again...the following damage occurred at idle while the car was warming up. I will be honest and say that the lifters did grind the cam lobes hard due to improper oil...shouldn't have been running Mobil 1. I know that now.

Pictures are self-explanatory.






__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 12:41 AM   #2
mikeyg36
The GT Troll Hundred
 
mikeyg36's Avatar
 
Drives: Cammed '12 2SS/RS LS3,'15 Z/28 #533
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Garden City, NY/Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 8,255
__________________
Click For Build Thread ***CAI Intake, ARH LTs, FSP Big NA Cam, Tuned By Matt@FSP***
mikeyg36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:44 AM   #3
mrimpala02
 
Drives: Black 2SS RS w/White Stripes
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 142
What oil do most recommend? My turner replaced oil with Mobile 1 syn when cam install was done. They also run the same oil on 700+ hp builds. Hmmm ....?
__________________
2010 2SS/RS "ChriSStine":
Lethal Racing Stage V (793 rwhp 681 rwtq)
Lethal Racing "Night Fury" Camshaft
ECS 1500 Supercharger Kit/Alky Duel Nozzle Meth
Twin Fuel Pump
KOOK 1 7/8" Headers/Kooks 3" Exhaust
3.91 gear set w/ Tru Trac
Barton Short Throw Shifter
FR Style 41 20"x10" fronts 20"x11"rear
BMR 1.4" drop springs
Pfadt rear trailing arms & tie rods
Installed & Tuned By Lethal Racing
mrimpala02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:34 AM   #4
Rhino79



 
Rhino79's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS L99/Auto
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 2,372
The mobile 1 is fine, but there may have been debris on the cam from install, or the cam core was not the 8620 hardened version. We use Mobil on a lot of our builds, but we prelube the cam with non synthetic for install.
__________________

Specializing in LS performance and calibrations.
Remote tuning, In-house builds, and Parts. Custom Grind LS and VVT Camshaft packages.
Ryan@gogwatney.com Aaron@gogwatney.com www.Gwatneyperformance.com
Home of THE Fastest Stock Displacement Naturally Aspirated GEN 5! 10.45@133.55
Rhino79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:08 AM   #5
grocerygetter
instigator
 
grocerygetter's Avatar
 
Drives: Black on black 2009 C6
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 72034
Posts: 3,957
yeah...and let's say you did have a 3bolt...somthing caused the resistance that sheered the pin and bolt. That would have still been there and still damaged valve train and what not.
Sorry to hear about that man.
__________________
-John S.

2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
Tony@ dv8motoring
rhino@ Gwatney Chevrolet/GPI Jacksonville AR
TCAudio in Benton AR
grocerygetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:19 AM   #6
DesertCamaro
 
DesertCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: Women Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 714
Oh boy, that's heartbreaking. I just pulled the AMC 401 out of my buddy's CJ over the weekend. PO swapped in pistons that were too tall, and 5 of the 8 hit the head and were all cracked.

Never a good feeling to open a motor and see that.
__________________
2014 SS
DesertCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:23 AM   #7
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
yeah...and let's say you did have a 3bolt...somthing caused the resistance that sheered the pin and bolt. That would have still been there and still damaged valve train and what not.
Sorry to hear about that man.
Not necessarily, pin may have sheared on its own accord possibly from racing it or cold temps, who knows. But I do understand what you're getting at with that statement and it's kinda like "what do you want to be the weakest link" it will always be something...just a matter of what it is I guess.
__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:24 AM   #8
Bo White



 
Bo White's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Summit White 1SS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vance Alabama
Posts: 2,949
Yep, the pin is only there for indexing purposes only. The big bolt and high torque value is what keeps the sprocket stationary. Early on some single bolts failed because the pin was too long and wasn't allowing the bolt a true torque.
Bo White is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:29 AM   #9
ROD_SS

 
ROD_SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS Camaro and a truck
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Antonio,TX
Posts: 1,027
Subscribing because I want a cam in my future. Curious to find out what went wrong
__________________
ADM tuned (418rwhp / 411 torque) Mods- CAI and kooks long tube headers
ROD_SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:31 AM   #10
grocerygetter
instigator
 
grocerygetter's Avatar
 
Drives: Black on black 2009 C6
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 72034
Posts: 3,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo White View Post
Yep, the pin is only there for indexing purposes only. The big bolt and high torque value is what keeps the sprocket stationary. Early on some single bolts failed because the pin was too long and wasn't allowing the bolt a true torque.
I heard that as well. But those were old cam cores and that was a while back in one bolt design. Also read about the non-hardened cams having isues with that and wear overall.
So that brings up a good question...what are we looking at? Which motor, which cam, mileage?
__________________
-John S.

2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
Tony@ dv8motoring
rhino@ Gwatney Chevrolet/GPI Jacksonville AR
TCAudio in Benton AR
grocerygetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 10:11 AM   #11
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
Well, it's an LS3, cam was put in at 12,000 miles and car now has 20,000 miles. Cam is 6 months old. Comp Cam specs are 219/235 .607/.619 113LSA. Not sure what material it was made out of.

The guy tearing it apart also said there was some valve float. Apparently the Lunati springs didn't hold. Also had trunion upgrade installed at the time of cam install.
__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 11:53 AM   #12
Kelly@PCMofNC

 
Drives: 2010 RS/SS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 862
Man that sucks! Those valves look like they're just swaying in the wind!
__________________

See what's in our shop on Facebook! Customer Build Blogs!
www.pcmofnc.com
Performance Parts & Installs - Dyno Tuning - Mail Order Tuning
704-307-4227
Kelly@PCMofNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 12:10 PM   #13
10aSSee D

 
10aSSee D's Avatar
 
Drives: Silver 2010 SS Camaro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 2,031
ADM just did my build and my cam was trashed as well, you could see the wear on the lobes and that cam had about 4 thousand miles on it. I think the metal was soft, it was a comp cam. ADM told me to run Mobil 1 15w50 in mine, it has a lot of zinc in it.
__________________
MODS:

ADM built 417, 2.9L Whipple with 3.250 pulley, ADM ported and polished LSA heads,ADM stage3 cam,ADM LSA belt drive system,ADM CAI race scoop, ADM dual fuel pumps, ID 850's, BMR full suspension, Gforce 9 inch kit with 3.5 inch driveshaft, Street Slayer twin carbon clutch, Lingenfelter oil seperator. Tuned by built by ADM Performance, 763rwhp,705rwtq
10aSSee D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 12:22 PM   #14
woodside783
Casey Woodside
 
woodside783's Avatar
 
Drives: W/28
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tn
Posts: 1,411
Motor oil would have nothing to do with this accident I used 10w30

Tommy Boy
__________________
2014 camaro5 fest 5 camarocross super modified 3rd
2013 camaro5 fest 4 camarocross modified champ
Instagram @caseywoodside
http://youtu.be/CSc9aPh_X_w
woodside783 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 12:28 PM   #15
f5journal
Senior Camaro Fanatic
 
f5journal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 SS/RS manual - White
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: aiken, sc
Posts: 2,044
I've been reading every one of these cam failure threads and I am getting antzy. Some say the new oils without something in it, some have pointed at Comp Cam cores made during a certain period, the 3-bolt thing..........what ever the deal is, we are not seeing LS3 engines last with cams put in them. It seem to be a real crap shoot. I think PQ's went the longest but still barely 50K miles or there about. Most are done by 20K
__________________
Former '68 and '69 Z/28 Owner...........Now sporting around in a 2011 RS/SS with........Kooks LT's and cats, JRE tune, CAI, scoop, ZL1 Bumper conversion, custom ZL-1 grille, halo harness, Painted silver stripes, GM GFX, black painted lower edge of skirts and rear bumper. MGW shifter
f5journal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 12:30 PM   #16
strych9
Gone Euro!
 
strych9's Avatar
 
Drives: 6spd Manual Mercedes
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,031
Something here is amiss. I suspect the cam gear pin sheared due to the valve-to-piston contact, and not the other way around. hard to say.

I'm not a believer it the, "blame Mobil 1" camp for cam failures. Far too many performance shops still use it with no problems. The failures are isolated; if it were the oil causing it, they would all fail.

Sorry OP, that's some nasty stuff to deal with, there. Best of luck to you.
__________________
Bye bye, Bumblebee!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
strych9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:00 PM   #17
10aSSee D

 
10aSSee D's Avatar
 
Drives: Silver 2010 SS Camaro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 2,031
My new cam is a comp as well.
__________________
MODS:

ADM built 417, 2.9L Whipple with 3.250 pulley, ADM ported and polished LSA heads,ADM stage3 cam,ADM LSA belt drive system,ADM CAI race scoop, ADM dual fuel pumps, ID 850's, BMR full suspension, Gforce 9 inch kit with 3.5 inch driveshaft, Street Slayer twin carbon clutch, Lingenfelter oil seperator. Tuned by built by ADM Performance, 763rwhp,705rwtq
10aSSee D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:21 PM   #18
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by strych9 View Post
Something here is amiss. I suspect the cam gear pin sheared due to the valve-to-piston contact, and not the other way around. hard to say.

I'm not a believer it the, "blame Mobil 1" camp for cam failures. Far too many performance shops still use it with no problems. The failures are isolated; if it were the oil causing it, they would all fail.

Sorry OP, that's some nasty stuff to deal with, there. Best of luck to you.
I agree something does seem amiss just hard to pinpoint exactly what the cause of everything was...What started the downhill spiral??

Don't know if I will ever know for sure.
__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:23 PM   #19
Fast6.3
 
Fast6.3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2ssrs vert 2010 silverado 6.3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: El paso texas
Posts: 598
Any failures with other cams. Lunati crower crane I no almost every company uses comp cores that is a shame tho
__________________
[SIGPIC][tsp 2" headers no cats solo axel back magnaflow x halltec cai with apex scoop pfadtted suspension
Fast6.3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #20
PQ
Booooosted.
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Blown beast.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,916
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by strych9 View Post
Something here is amiss. I suspect the cam gear pin sheared due to the valve-to-piston contact, and not the other way around. hard to say.

I'm not a believer it the, "blame Mobil 1" camp for cam failures. Far too many performance shops still use it with no problems. The failures are isolated; if it were the oil causing it, they would all fail.

Sorry OP, that's some nasty stuff to deal with, there. Best of luck to you.
Agreed. This looks like the cam is a victim and not the cause. Rarely is it ever clear in the circle of death of scenarios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f5journal View Post
I've been reading every one of these cam failure threads and I am getting antzy. Some say the new oils without something in it, some have pointed at Comp Cam cores made during a certain period, the 3-bolt thing..........what ever the deal is, we are not seeing LS3 engines last with cams put in them. It seem to be a real crap shoot. I think PQ's went the longest but still barely 50K miles or there about. Most are done by 20K
Yes mine went about 45 to 50k after the cam. Comp cam installed by Vengeance.

I should ad that the cam came out of another members car. It had been in his car for a few months.

This one is definitely a different cause. I could put new bearings in mine and a new cam and two new lifters and run it if I wanted. this one is FUBAR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohdeo16 View Post
Well, it's an LS3, cam was put in at 12,000 miles and car now has 20,000 miles. Cam is 6 months old. Comp Cam specs are 219/235 .607/.619 113LSA. Not sure what material it was made out of.

The guy tearing it apart also said there was some valve float. Apparently the Lunati springs didn't hold. Also had trunion upgrade installed at the time of cam install.
I carried my cam around the fest last year and asked everyone. Lingenfelter, JRE, and everyone. They pretty much all said the same thing. Either the wrong springs were used (which is not the case), they were installed improperly, or the cam just simply failed. Wasn't hardened enough.

I'd guess yours was not a cam at fault. Anything is possible here but it's more likely that you somehow jumped timing. Did the chain or sprocket show any damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo White View Post
Yep, the pin is only there for indexing purposes only. The big bolt and high torque value is what keeps the sprocket stationary. Early on some single bolts failed because the pin was too long and wasn't allowing the bolt a true torque.
I remember those. I agree too. They engineer those to work. While I still feel better with a 3 bolt cam on a high torque build I'd be ok with a one bolt stock cam.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:33 PM   #21
PQ
Booooosted.
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Blown beast.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,916
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohdeo16 View Post

Don't know if I will ever know for sure.
Rarely do we ever know for sure on catastrophic failure.

I'm still down as well. I know how it feels. Sorry to hear about it. Hopefully you will be up soon.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:33 PM   #22
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
I'd guess yours was not a cam at fault. Anything is possible here but it's more likely that you somehow jumped timing. Did the chain or sprocket show any damage?
There was no visible damage to the cam gear or chain. Chain is going to be reused actually.
__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:38 PM   #23
DKT
 
DKT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NE/IA
Posts: 224
Just by glancing, couldn't this happen by the cam bolt backing out.
DKT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:40 PM   #24
PQ
Booooosted.
 
PQ's Avatar
 
Drives: Blown beast.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 36,916
Send a message via Yahoo to PQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohdeo16 View Post
There was no visible damage to the cam gear or chain. Chain is going to be reused actually.
Ok. Then that narrows it significantly I think. The cam spun. I don't really see any other explanation.

It was idling when this happened? Damn.

Well, like I said, rarely is it ever definitive. I'd think it would happen on a hard decel but that looks spun on accel.
__________________
PQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:40 PM   #25
SNSSTR
All About That Speed
 
SNSSTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
Posts: 843
I guess it's possible but it was a new bolt, torqued to spec, with loctite. And from what I see on the cam, the pin sheared but looks like the bolt held the gear pretty tight against the cam for a period of time until finally the timing got thrown out enough to f stuff up.
__________________

2010 Black SS/RS M6 | 514hp | 470tq | GPI/Rhino Tune |Build Thread
SNSSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.