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Old 07-27-2009, 02:38 PM   #1
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Thumbs up How to get an LS9 for under $7000!

An LS9 is basically a TVS 2300 Supercharged LS3. So instead of spending $20000+ for an LS9, just buy a Maggie!!You would also get a little more horsepower!!


That is all
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:41 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 2010 CAMARO SS RS View Post
An LS9 is basically a TVS 2300 Supercharged LS3. So instead of spending $20000+ for an LS9, just buy a Maggie!!


That is all
Yes and no. LS9 has heavy duty guts, LS3 doesn't.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:44 PM   #3
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An LS9 is basically a TVS 2300 Supercharged LS3. So instead of spending $20000+ for an LS9, just buy a Maggie!!You would also get a little more horsepower!!


That is all
Not quite .. there are more differences than that ..

The LS9 is assembled by hand at GM's Performance Build Center, a unique, small-volume engine production facility in Wixom, Mich., that also builds the Corvette Z06's LS7 engine and other high-performance GM production engines.

Cylinder block and reciprocating assembly details

The LS9's aluminum cylinder block features steel, six-bolt main bearing caps, with enlarged vent windows in the second and third bulkheads for enhanced bay to bay breathing. Cast iron cylinder liners - measuring 4.06 inches (103.25 mm) in bore diameter - are inserted in the aluminum block and they are finish-bored and honed with a deck plate installed. The deck plate simulates the pressure and minute dimensional variances applied to the block when the cylinder heads are installed, ensuring a higher degree of accuracy that promotes maximum cylinder head sealing, piston ring fit and overall engine performance.

Nestled inside the cylinder block is a forged steel crankshaft that delivers the LS9's 3.62-inch (92 mm) stroke. It features a smaller-diameter ignition-triggering reluctor wheel and a nine-bolt flange - the outer face of the crankshaft on which the flywheel is mounted - that provides more clamping strength. Other non-supercharged 6.2L engines, such as the base Corvette's LS3, have a six-bolt flange. A torsional damper mounted to the front of the crankshaft features a keyway and friction washer, which also is designed to support the engine's high loads.

Attached to the crankshaft is a set of titanium connecting rods and forged aluminum pistons, which, when combined with the cylinder heads, delivers a 9.1:1 compression ratio. This combination is extremely durable and lightweight, enabling the LS9's high-rpm capability.

Cylinder head details

The basic cylinder head design of the LS9 is similar to the L92-type head found on the LS3 V-8, but it is cast with a premium A356T6 alloy that is better at handling the heat generated by the supercharged engine - particularly in the bridge area of the cylinder head, between the intake and exhaust valves.

In addition to the special aluminum alloy, each head is created with a rotocast method. Also known as spin casting, the process involves pouring the molten alloy into a rotating mold. This makes for more even distribution of the material and virtually eliminates porosity - air bubbles or pockets trapped in the casting - for a stronger finished product.

Although the heads are based on the L92 design, they feature swirl-inducing wings that are cast into the intake ports. This improves the mixture motion of the pressurized air/fuel charge. The charge enters the combustion chambers via titanium intake valves that measure 2.16 inches (55 mm) in diameter. Spent gases exit the chambers through 1.59-inch (40.4 mm) hollow stem sodium-filled exhaust valves. The titanium intake and sodium-filled exhaust valves are used for their lightweight and high-rpm capability.

To ensure sealing of the pressurized engine, unique, four-layer steel head gaskets are used with the LS9's heads.

Camshaft and valvetrain

The broad power band enabled by the LS9's large-displacement supercharger allows it to make strong low-end torque and great high-rpm horsepower, which allowed engineers to specify a camshaft with a relatively low lift of 0.555-inch (14.1 mm) for both the intake and exhaust valves. This low-overlap cam has lower lift and slower valve-closing speeds than the Z06's 505-horsepower (377 kW) LS7, helping the LS9 - with its approximately 620 horsepower - deliver exemplary idle and low-speed driving qualities.

The camshaft actuates a valvetrain that includes many components, including the lifters, rocker arms and valve springs, of the LS3 engine. However, LS7 retainers are used to support the engine's high-rpm performance.

Supercharger and charge cooler details

The LS9's R2300 supercharger is a sixth-generation design from Eaton, with a case that is specific to the Corvette application. The supercharger features a new four-lobe rotor design that promotes quieter and more efficient performance, while its large, 2.3-liter displacement ensures adequate air volume at high rpm to support the engine's high-horsepower aspiration. Maximum boost pressure is 10.5 psi (0.72 bar).

The supercharger is an engine-driven air pump that contains a pair of long rotors that are twisted somewhat like pretzel sticks. As they spin around each other, incoming air is squeezed between the rotors and pushed under pressure into the engine - forcing more air into the engine than it could draw under "natural" aspiration. The rotors are driven by a pulley and belt that are connected to the engine's accessory drive system.

Because the pressurized air is hotter than naturally aspirated air, the LS9 employs a liquid-to-air charge cooling system to reduce inlet air temperature after it exits the supercharger - reducing the inlet air temperature by up to 60 degrees C (140 F). Cooler air is denser and allows the engine to make the most of its high-pressure air charge. The charge cooling system includes a dedicated coolant circuit with a remote-mounted pump and reservoir.

The design of the supercharger case and its integrated charge cooling system was driven by the space and dimensions afforded under the Corvette's hood. To that end, the charge cooler was designed as a "dual brick" system, with a pair of low-profile heat exchangers mounted longitudinally on either side of the supercharger. Coupled with the supercharger itself, this integrated design mounts to the engine in place of a conventional intake manifold and is only slightly taller than a non-supercharged 6.2L engine. The air inlet and rotor drive pulley are positioned at the front of the supercharger.

Additional engine details

Oiling system: The LS9 uses a dry-sump oiling system that is similar in design to the LS7's system, but features a higher-capacity pump to ensure adequate oil pressure at the higher cornering loads the ZR1 is capable of achieving. An oil-pan mounted oil cooler is integrated, too, along with piston-cooling oil squirters located in the cylinder block. The expanded performance envelope of the Corvette ZR1 required changes to the dry sump system also used in the Z06. System capacity is increased and scavenge performance improved to meet the demands of Chevrolet's highest-performance sportscar.

Water pump: To compensate for the heavier load generated by the supercharger drive system, an LS9-specific water pump with increased bearing capacity is used.

Accessory drive system: In order to package the accessory drive system in the Corvette's engine compartment, the supercharger drive was integrated into the main drive system. This required a wider 11-rib accessory drive system to be used with the LS9 in order to support the load delivered by the supercharger.

Fuel system: The LS9 uses high-capacity 48-lb./hr. fuel injectors with center-feed fuel lines. The center feed system ensures even fuel flow between the cylinders with less noise. In order to ensure fuel system performance during low speed operation as well as under the extreme performance requirements of wide open throttle (WOT), a dual pressure fuel system was developed. This system operates at 250 kPa at idle and low speed, and ratchets up to 600 kPa at higher-speed and WOT conditions.

Throttle body: An 87-mm, single-bore throttle body is used to draw air into the engine. It is electronically controlled.

Rocker covers / ignition coils: Unique rocker covers with new, direct-mount ignition coils are used. Other Gen IV engines, such as the LS3, feature coil packs mounted to a bracket. The LS9's direct-mounted coils offer a cleaner appearance and a shorter lead between the coil and spark plug.

Beauty cover: A special engine cover is attached to the top of the LS9. It surrounds the intercooler, which is visible through a hood window, accenting the supercharger while simultaneously reducing noise. The cover has "LS9 SUPERCHARGED" script on the left and right sides, along with a debossed Corvette crossed flags emblem on the front.


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Old 07-27-2009, 02:46 PM   #4
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you are right but still it is almost like an LS9
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:53 PM   #5
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Damn Crowley...nice work dude.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:53 PM   #6
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you are right but still it is almost like an LS9
In the same way the camaro is almost like a malibu.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:05 PM   #7
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In the same way the camaro is almost like a malibu.
HEY! I have a Malibu!

I'm sure you can crank up the boost on that LS9 and not spit the pistons onto the street unlike the OEM LS3. Dual-mode fuel system, forged everything, lower compression, and a bunch of other goodies really separate the two.

Hey - you're right about the power though. It's just that LS9 would live longer and would take a lot more. It's funny that it has to run at like 10.5 psi in order to get about the same power as an LS3 on 6 psi. Where's the math in that?!
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:05 PM   #8
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This is not true at all!

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/19/d...e-ls9-is-born/
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:07 PM   #9
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JT - what's a safe limit on an LS9?
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:11 PM   #10
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The LS3 and LS9 essentially just share the block and displacement. However, the LS9 is over-engineered (a good thing in this case) as Chevrolet wanted to maximize the 6.2's performance while still retaining the driveability and reliability of a base C6. Sure you could strap a 2300 on a LS3 and put a fully forged rotating assembly and it would exceed the power of a LS9. But... it's the little things that make the LS9 what it is: The pinnacle of small block engine technology. Besides, something about a factory forged engine just sends chills up my spine.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:14 PM   #11
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JT - what's a safe limit on an LS9?
We are able to get over 750 so far with the LS9!
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:20 AM   #12
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you are right but still it is almost like an LS9
Then by all means, slap a TVS 2300 on your LS3 and crank the boost up... and wait for the pistons to go BOOOM!

The LS9 is purpose built for a big positive displacement supercharger. The LS3's hyper eutectic pistons and 10.ish:1 compression, plus boost, creates a non wallet friendly situation.

If you wanna build an LS3 up to hold the boost, then im sure you could gitter-dun for cheaper than the cost of an LS9. But I believe it's part prestige to tell people that you got an LS9 under the hood. It just sounds better than saying, I have a built LS3 with a TVS 2300 running XX lbs of boost... See how much easier it is to just say "LS9" than all that?!
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:21 AM   #13
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Word. That LS9 is running 10.5 psi of boost if I remember correctly, and I'm not sure an OEM LS3, even with a spot-on tune, is going to last as long as that engine will. That engine is so over-built, it's crazy. If I could just get an LS9 shortblock, add some GMPP ported heads with the 2300, that'd be pretty bad@$$.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:31 AM   #14
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Word. That LS9 is running 10.5 psi of boost if I remember correctly, and I'm not sure an OEM LS3, even with a spot-on tune, is going to last as long as that engine will. That engine is so over-built, it's crazy. If I could just get an LS9 shortblock, add some GMPP ported heads with the 2300, that'd be pretty bad@$$.

You can get anything you want .. you just need the $$$

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Old 07-31-2009, 10:31 AM   #15
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I know an LS3 can do 6.5 lbs of boost all day with no long term impact but yeah - I'd be doing an internal organ transplant if I was interested in making insane horsepower.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:35 AM   #16
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You can get anything you want .. you just need the $$$

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I know an LS3 can do 6.5 lbs of boost all day with no long term impact but yeah - I'd be doing an internal organ transplant if I was interested in making insane horsepower.


I think I'd be more inclined to push the 10 psi. envelope with my tuner since I wouldn't be driving the car everyday. I imagine I'd run 100 octane as much as possible, but at $8/gallon, that would get pretty expensive pretty quick.

Does anyone have a line on whether or not one can obatin an LS9/LSA shortblock?
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:40 AM   #17
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Mr. Crowley,

That read was better than Penthouse Forum to us gearheads. I have to go take a cold shower now
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:01 AM   #18
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Mr. Crowley,

That read was better than Penthouse Forum to us gearheads. I have to go take a cold shower now


Unrelated... LS6 or LS5 (or LS7...) Chevelle?
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:47 PM   #19
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I think I'd be more inclined to push the 10 psi. envelope with my tuner since I wouldn't be driving the car everyday. I imagine I'd run 100 octane as much as possible, but at $8/gallon, that would get pretty expensive pretty quick.

Meth injection..... keeps the gas prices down.



and props to Crowley
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:11 AM   #20
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Unrelated... LS6 or LS5 (or LS7...) Chevelle?


Its a moribund LS5, still looks great though!
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:47 AM   #21
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more like an LSA than a LS9 from an engine internals standpoint.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:07 AM   #22
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Meth injection..... keeps the gas prices down.



and props to Crowley
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I think I'd be more inclined to push the 10 psi. envelope with my tuner since I wouldn't be driving the car everyday. I imagine I'd run 100 octane as much as possible, but at $8/gallon, that would get pretty expensive pretty quick.

Does anyone have a line on whether or not one can obatin an LS9/LSA shortblock?
I'm a big fan of water/methanol injection. I have been useing it since 1979 and it will be installed with the engine swap on my new Camaro. Done properly, it will raise octane 20 to 25 points.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:10 AM   #23
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A little off topic but...

I want to know if I can take the intake/blower off of an LS9 and just bolt it on to the LS3??? tuning aside....

Will it work????
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:15 PM   #24
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more like an LSA than a LS9 from an engine internals standpoint.
The biggest departure, to my understanding, from the LSA to the LS9 are the pistons, rods, and valvetrain,for the most part. The block is different, the flywheel is different, and the LSA is hand-built. Okay - I think you're more right than I first thought - mechanically, not too big a difference (still has the forged crank, heads, piston squirters, and a couple other goodies) but an LSA is certainly a better foundation for FI than an LS3. The pistons aren't forged, but I'm sure they're better hypereutectics than the OEM LS3/L99s and are lower compression. Still - I wonder what 10.5 psi (like the LS9) through a TVS2300 Maggy' would do over the OEM 10 psi on the OEM Eaton.

I still think, IMVHO, comparing an LS3 to an LSA/LS9 is not quite practical - JMVHO though.

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Meth injection..... keeps the gas prices down.

and props to Crowley
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I'm a big fan of water/methanol injection. I have been useing it since 1979 and it will be installed with the engine swap on my new Camaro. Done properly, it will raise octane 20 to 25 points.
You know - I've kinda' looked into meth' injection however I kinda' passed it off because I thought it would just kinda' be a PITA to keep refueling the reservoir and such; just like I'd rather do a turbo or SC instead of nitrous. I've always been worried about the delivery system of these supplementary systems failing too and cooking the engine or something. I have no experience to warrant these worries - that's just my crazy thought. I should open my horizons more it seems

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A little off topic but...

I want to know if I can take the intake/blower off of an LS9 and just bolt it on to the LS3??? tuning aside....

Will it work????
It's my understanding the major difference between the LS3 (L99, L76) head and LSA are the casting process - it's better for less porosity in the LSA (and LS9) for that matter. There are also vanes in the ports that are supposed to influence flow/swirl better too. Having said that, I think it should bolt on pretty straight forward, just the accessories are going to be a pain. That LSA also has a dual-mode fuel system for running at idle and at higher RPMs (WOT). I imagine one can tune the PCM and just use upgraded injectors to simplify the fuel system, but I couldn't know if it's absolutely necessary to have to use that system (found on the LS9 too) in order to get the SC to compress the air and get the fuel into the heads...
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:42 PM   #25
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Here for a bare block

then build up from there

12599296 Valley Cover w/ bolts, seals, gasket and pcv baffle

12599298 PCV Tube

12600325 Front Cover w/ Cam Sensor, Seal, Bolts & Gasket

12602548 Coolant Crossover Pipe

12602540 Coolant Caps

11588714 Coolant Pipe/Cap Bolts

12615666 Rear Crankshaft Seal Housing

12574293 Rear Crankshaft Seal Housing Gasket

11515758 Rear Crankshaft Seal Housing Bolts

89060436 Rear Crankshaft Seal

12573460 Oil Galley Rear Plug w/ Seal

11588949 Oil Plug Side

9427693 Water Drain Plug Frt < part number may not be correct

1453658 Transmission Dowel < part number may not be correct

11609289 Water Drain Plug - Hex

12589016 Camshaft Retainer Plate

11561455 Camshaft Retainer Plate Bolt

12570125 Knock sensor

12585546 Crankshaft Position Sensor

11515756 Crankshaft Position Sensor Bolt

12591689 Cam Gear

11561283 Cam Gear Bolt < part number may not be correct

12556582 Crank Gear

12586482 Timing Chain < part number may not be correct

12588670 Timing Chain Dampener/Slide w/Bolts

12601402 Balancer

12557840 Balancer Bolt

12595365 Valve Lifter Guides

12551163 Valve Lifter Guides Bolts

12598610 Crankshaft

12624231 Connecting Rods

12598634 Pistons

12605527 Camshaft Rollers

12621774 Cylinder Heads

12569167 Rocker Arms (Int)

10214664 Tocker Arms (Exh)

I think this is correct (but not complete) but leave it up to the research of the reader to go from here.

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It's official: ZR-1 LS9 engine makes 638hp / 604tq !! Tran General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 28 04-29-2008 05:38 PM


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