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Old 02-27-2014, 11:38 AM   #1
mbacamaross
 
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Forum experience

I use this forum as a tool, as research and as a reference.
But its not the only LS /gm/ forum i visit.
I have also made alot of friends on all forums.

BUT I have to say this forum is the most censored or o should say biased.
I have seen soooo many interesting post deleted.
I have seen barely negative post deleted.
I have seen barely suggestive post, (not mentioning names) deleted.
These forum members get banned, for sharing their "opinions" and "expiriences" without being offensive???

Is that not censorship? Biased?
Is a forum like this helpful?

This happens because of a forum sponsor is not happy?
Or sponsor feels post was directed at him?

How are we, some nebies some experts, supposed to "share" insight?
Help each other?

What was the initial goal of this forum?
Where is it now?

Maybe i dont post alot because i am a begginer, i have tried and failed but i tell you what i have a blast learning my car with "REAL" posts and honest guys..
Now i love to hear the truth go or bad but the truth nontheless.
Truth about parts
Truth about venders
Truth about members
By truth i mean your expiriences.

I belong to other forums and never have a seen a post deleted
Without merit.
But here on c5 its like if you share a neg opinion about a sponsor u get the boot?

This site is a let down.
Moderators please moderate dont make thus site a joke.

There are plenty of private groups in diff social media / forums pointing this out
With proof. Im not gonna mention names but you get the point.

Dont have this site just be for show.
This site needs to be REAL.
Im not saying not to censor just dont censor truth..


Moderators u make the call.....

You want to keep this forum with real guys with real experiences with real hands-on knowledge or do you want a forum that's begining to get known for hanging on sponsors nuts... Especifically JRE nuts...
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:48 AM   #2
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Probably the latter.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:53 AM   #3
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:54 AM   #4
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We remove offensive content. All forums have rules, and they're usually pretty similar:
  • Be nice to other members.
  • Don't promote illegal activity.
  • Don't be a troll.
  • Don't post spam.
Other sites' moderators generally give up on enforcing at least a couple of these rules, usually being the first two. Spam is pretty easy to manage because members report it right away or keep bumping it because it's funny. Trolling usually ticks someone off enough to report it, and we can get rid of that. Being nice to other members and staying legal is where forums tend to have trouble. Eventually, car forums tend to have an "in-group" of guys that have been there for a while, and they tend to post street racing videos and burnouts on public roads or ridicule new members for asking questions that were answered years before they joined. We don't do that here.

If you want to do that stuff, by all means post it somewhere else. The Camaro5 I know and love is a place where anyone can feel welcome and isn't ridiculed for asking a simple question, even if they should have searched for it. This site should be an international family of Camaro enthusiasts.

Are we biased? Yes, we're pro-Camaro. All of the moderators have different vendor experiences, and we may speak to that, but I can speak for all of us when I tell you that we're as objective as we can be. I also want to point out that I make no money from forum sponsors. Their happiness is no more important to me than yours. As far as I'm concerned, you're equal members.

As for "the truth" about parts and vendors, we do have a feedback section, and I know some companies on here that have taken a beating in there whether they deserved it or not. We start deleting content when it gets into headed arguments, not because someone said, "Billy Bob's widgets are junk."

Now, let's talk about social media and other sites. Those are great resources. We also don't respond to hostility from people we've banned over the years. You don't need to give names. We probably don't know their real names anyway, but I can give you a remarkable list of screen names that, once banned, suddenly had a lot of bad things to say under the same screen names somewhere else.

I'll give you a little more insight into moderating. The bad guys come back. You might think that guy that got banned did nothing wrong, but you also didn't run his IP address against that Ford troll we kicked off 2 years ago for having 10 accounts all spouting the same senseless garbage. You're not going to always see what we do behind the scenes to keep this place friendly.

I want to thank you for joining Camaro5, and I'm glad you brought your concerns to light. Every once in a while, I think it's good for the community to take a peek at what we do as moderators, and I hope I addressed your concerns. Now, go forth and learn about your Camaro!

On a personal note, I like JRE, but I'm not hanging on his nuts.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:59 AM   #5
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That was an impressively political response. In my opinion you avoided the bulk of his point. But a well thought out point that points out some annoying things that mods must deal with.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:06 PM   #6
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C5 is a pretty good forum but the part about asking questions and not being ridiculed is way, way wrong. Just search "Butt hurt" and I'm sure you'll see lots of it. I'm also on other forums, some better and some worse. I'm still in the honeymoon phase of my car so I'm currently here more than others.

Overall I think that C5 moderators have done a pretty good job of keeping things civil. There is never going to be a consensus on subject or ideas, there are too many different ages, histories, back grounds for us all to see eye to eye. What some find funny others find offensive and that balance is almost impossible achieve. At the end of it people need to keep in mind that you can't be too invested in any Internet forums because there will always be "issues" and it'll never be exactly what you personally want. It's called Life.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:09 PM   #7
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The blur
Is a perfect name..
Wait is this offensive?
why dont you post
Proof of why some guys are considered bad?
If not why dont you give a reason?

Maybe its none of our business ok i get that but
Your gonna tell me ( careful how you answer like i said picture proof are floating around.)
That an honest expirience post without being offensive has not gotten deleted?
Or user banned.

I dont really pretend to know all your moderator duties, but dont BLUR or delete truths that can potentially save alot of $$ and time to members.

Did you not have someone ever point you in right direction??
Now real post get BLURor deleted?

Makes sense?

And yes i will go on learn about my camaro thats the point.
I do not have the expertise, and money as alot of good members/tuners here but im thankful i learned from them..

You mention equal members?
As in members are equal to sponsors?
Hmmm
Ok
So why are misinformed post still up?

You posted trolling as offensive content.
Can sponsors fall in trolling catagory? if their name is not mentioned?
Yet they are allowed to troll??

You cant argue there is alot of BLUR-ing going on
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberPredator View Post
That was an impressively political response. In my opinion you avoided the bulk of his point. But a well thought out point that points out some annoying things that mods must deal with.
I can keep going, but that post was getting really long.

The purpose of this forum was to gather Camaro enthusiasts to discuss a then-concept car that we weren't sure was going to production. All the indications were there, and most of the initial threads were speculation. Every time we got new information, people seemed to freak out over the implications. The drama and excitement helped grow this community. It's now the largest active Camaro community in the world.

That being said, I have a huge amount of respect for other communities out there, like Chicago 5th Gen and LS1Tech for their big contributions to the Camaro community. There are a lot of others, too, but I'm not going to list every site from GM Inside News to Chirp Third.

The vendor thing came later. People started giving feedback on the products that were popping up here. We aren't here to stop feedback from being presented, but there's a way to post it cordially: the member having a problem says their piece and leaves the thread alone.

The reality is much different. The problem was that people would come into the thread and agree or disagree and have arguments with one another. One brand's fanboy argues with another brand's fanboy. People start accusing one another or the brand of lying, cheating, or stealing. Is that what you want here? I didn't think so.

When that happens, we have to close the thread. Members have the freedom to post in any open, public thread. We aren't limiting the number of posts you have in a discussion, but that means that when it gets out of hand that it has to get closed or deleted.

We close threads because they've run their course. We delete threads because they became so offensive that they are more filled with name-calling and expletive text than meaningful content.

None of what I said had anything to do with moderator opinions. I assure you that we have opinions, but we let a lot of things go because our opinions frankly don't matter. You can disagree with me all day, and I don't care as long as you're friendly. Once you start calling me a Nazi ****, we're going to have problems.

I hope that further answered your questions. We don't like closing or deleting threads, but we do it because it makes the most sense.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:11 PM   #9
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:19 PM   #10
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Dont get me wrong, this is a good forum
Of course i agree pro-camaro and gm
I NEVER ARGUED THAT!

Biased as in who can share opinions and who cant.
Never offending.
But why delete a post not offensive with no bad language.
Just an honest bad expirience, yet it gets deleted..?

I don get that?

Who wants to hear the truth? Good or bad?
Not being offensive..

I know i do.

Then keep a forum like that..

You say you or mods make no money off of sponsors..
They it comes off to alot is that you do, with that type of policing.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:33 PM   #11
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Leave The Blur alone! He's busy not hanging on to some dudes nuts...
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:45 PM   #12
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Maybe you're not the one deleting the post or banning some people, but I've seen a few helpful non offensive post lead to someone getting banned and their post deleted (not referencing the pink elephant in the room) and pointing directly to said elephant I've seen some deleted post and banned members that weren't offensive. Regarding said elephant some post were offensive, but what was done to members by him was more than offensive.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbacamaross View Post
Dont get me wrong, this is a good forum
Of course i agree pro-camaro and gm
I NEVER ARGUED THAT!

Biased as in who can share opinions and who cant.
Never offending.
But why delete a post not offensive with no bad language.
Just an honest bad expirience, yet it gets deleted..?

I don get that?

Who wants to hear the truth? Good or bad?
Not being offensive..

I know i do.

Then keep a forum like that..

You say you or mods make no money off of sponsors..
They it comes off to alot is that you do, with that type of policing.
It doesn't get deleted because someone said, "This vendor sucks," and gives us a story. It gets deleted when people argue. If we leave it open, people keep arguing. When people keep arguing, it's no longer about a vendor experience. It's about a heated argument between members that violates the first rule: respect other members.

That's fine if you don't believe me, but we aren't protecting anyone. It doesn't benefit us for crappy vendors to be here.

You're asking a very strange question because I don't do what you're saying we do as moderators. I delete posts because:
  • it's a duplicate post
  • it's offensive (infraction will be issued)
  • it's spam (ban will be issued)
  • it's posted by an obvious troll (someone just trying to get under another member's skin)

Normally, I wouldn't entertain this discussion for so long because it seems like there's no convincing you that we do things fairly. I'm sorry you feel that way. We do our best.

Now, it sounds like you guys want to talk about a specific vendor. Keep this in mind. You might be right. You might have a lot of things to say about them. Now, they're a member here just like you. They have things to say, too—2 sides to every story. It's kind of cliché, but it's true.

Also, I want to point out that I noticed your taunting me in your second post here. If I infracted you for trolling, all it would do is convince you how right you are that we aren't fair. It seems like one of us might be biased, and it isn't me.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mbacamaross View Post
I use this forum as a tool, as research and as a reference.
Seriously.... Isn't everything else trivial or nonsense? Never seen a moderator delete a thread called "How to install a cold air intake". The rest I could give a shit less about...
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
The vendor thing came later. People started giving feedback on the products that were popping up here. We aren't here to stop feedback from being presented, but there's a way to post it cordially: the member having a problem says their piece and leaves the thread alone.
You're (not you, specifically, but the mod/admin team) just going to delete it and ban the posting member instead. Makes sense to me.

At some point the member base is worth more then sponsors pushing questionable products. Unfortunately, I don't have enough fingers or toes to count people I personally know who have been permanently banned over this nonsense. Once C5 quits being a useful resource to owners (which it will once the majority of informed and learned members are banned) it will cease to be relevant.

Then who will sponsor an empty site?

Food for thought
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowTurtle View Post
You're (not you, specifically, but the mod/admin team) just going to delete it and ban the posting member instead. Makes sense to me.

At some point the member base is worth more then sponsors pushing questionable products. Unfortunately, I don't have enough fingers or toes to count people I personally know who have been permanently banned over this nonsense. Once C5 quits being a useful resource to owners (which it will once the majority of informed and learned members are banned) it will cease to be relevant.

Then who will sponsor an empty site?

Food for thought
That sounds about right to me. One-on-one, you're an equal member with a vendor, but there are thousands of you and a bunch of vendors. It's hardly equal when you run the numbers.

I find bad feedback and good feedback beneficial. If you have a terrible experience somewhere, do you really think I want to shop there? It helps me to know that a place sucks just as much as it helps you guys.

If they haven't seen it already, I'll talk about this discussion with the other mods and hopefully we get some positives out if it, but please remember this: even if your knowledgeable friends are right, it's how they say it. Let's say Billy Bob's shop does bad work. Your friend should say, "Billy Bob's shop does bad work. I got [work goes here] done. It was terrible. It wasn't lined up right, and it didn't match. They wouldn't fix it. Now you know not to go there." Now the vendor can say something, just like the BBB. Other members can chime in. Now, if they start arguing and calling names on the forum, no matter how knowledgeable they are, they broke the rules. That's how good members get banned.

I'm not saying that's what happened. Maybe someone on our end was wrong. Like I said, we'll talk about it. I just want to give you that to consider. It's just some food for thought.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:20 PM   #17
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i do agree with blur on this and my second post what ever was actually just jabs, was it offensive,, maybe.. but i got my point across,

its a syn, its not about like it or live its a community here, where everyone has an opinion,,
i am all for deleting offensive post. .sure we dont need that we need constructive ideas.

heated arguments.. sure close the thread down.. but if its a REAL argument, a helpful argument why close it? why delete honest, post?

that was the observation i have made time and time again on this forum..
is there helpful threads .. of course there is..
is there good vendors... of course there is.
great tuners.. of course! some are tuning as a hobby not for profit.. for the love of the car.

dont trivialize my 1st comment.. it is what it is..
thats all i wanted to get off my chest..is that offensive? in what way?
dont like it leave it.. great answer o yeah that fixed everything... i love the site it has tons of info and even better people that actually care about your car being baddassssss. i just do not like it when its deleted or banned for a certain agenda so to speak.
thats how it came off to me over the past couple of months.

it is what it is..
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowTurtle View Post
You're (not you, specifically, but the mod/admin team) just going to delete it and ban the posting member instead. Makes sense to me.

At some point the member base is worth more then sponsors pushing questionable products. Unfortunately, I don't have enough fingers or toes to count people I personally know who have been permanently banned over this nonsense. Once C5 quits being a useful resource to owners (which it will once the majority of informed and learned members are banned) it will cease to be relevant.

Then who will sponsor an empty site?

Food for thought
I have been seeing this trend also on certain members that just voice out their opinion and BAM they're banned. I guess thats what happens when you go against the JRE gods. I have seen questionable vendors on here selling garbage products, I personally bought something from a vendor that eventually dropped off this forum but man were they on here forever after so many complaints (wont mention name because I am afraid I might get a warning). I bought another product from a vendor that "everyone" (not really everyone- 15% of members i'd guess) drools about and his product was total garbage, proven with results and feedback from countless shops. I even get messaged from members on here to see if I am having the same issue as them. BUT if I mention this vendor I'll probably get banned because that bandwagon group will pile on me because they are the "camaro king shop" for "everything"...Then again if you get banned just create a new account lol
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:22 PM   #19
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i will not go on about this.. i just posted my expirience.

i really hope other post theres good or bad... and give an example so we can use this a reference..

i want this thread to be about the site not about me.
if this thread gets deleted so be it.. hopefully we would get an explanation.

it is what it is..

thanks
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:29 PM   #20
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Here's what I've done to try and address this: I started a mod-admin discussion in the super secret mod cave that you can't find about how we need to be careful in that section of the site. It's my opinion that customers that have a bad experience are going to be more emotionally charged in their posts, and that might lead to some heated threads. We'll talk it out, and hopefully we see a lot less people getting banned in there. That being said, expect to see hostile, offensive, or unnecessary content revised to conform to site rules. I'll try to refrain from infracting anyone in there, but I'll let you know if your post had to be modified.

I'm all about the community here, so hopefully that comes through all this.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:36 PM   #21
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And will they let banned members back? There we some real useful intelligent members banned and I would like to to see them back, along with their builds!! The cosmetic and laser/led light show is ok and all, but us Drag Racers want to see some HP builds!!
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Here's what I've done to try and address this: I started a mod-admin discussion in the super secret mod cave that you can't find about how we need to be careful in that section of the site. It's my opinion that customers that have a bad experience are going to be more emotionally charged in their posts, and that might lead to some heated threads. We'll talk it out, and hopefully we see a lot less people getting banned in there. That being said, expect to see hostile, offensive, or unnecessary content revised to conform to site rules. I'll try to refrain from infracting anyone in there, but I'll let you know if your post had to be modified.

I'm all about the community here, so hopefully that comes through all this.
Sounds fair. Respect
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acowherd View Post
And will they let banned members back? There we some real useful intelligent members banned and I would like to to see them back, along with their builds!! The cosmetic and laser/led light show is ok and all, but us Drag Racers want to see some HP builds!!
PM me a list of screen names. I can't make any promises, but I'll review every single ban and talk about it with my fellow moderators.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:58 PM   #24
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As a admin and mod on multiple sites outside of camaro5 it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing what goes on here, butI give you credit for being mature about it. Hope a peaceful resolution is the results of this conversation.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:33 PM   #25
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As one of those members that I'm sure isn't to well like because of some of my views, I would have to disagree with the OP. I believe the mods allow plenty of leeway for the diverse crowd that we have. I sometimes forget that I'm not in the garage with the boys on Friday night, or I get drunk and post things that I shouldn't. I haven't had so much as a slap on the wrist, and I wouldn't be surprised if I did. I do get a little tired of how politically correct this forum is sometimes, but if you're going to play in their world, then you need to follow their rules.
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