Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics

Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics Camaro ZL1 specific topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2014, 10:54 AM   #1
RyKramer99
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 18
Do you think ZL1 price will go down with new Z28?

I was wondering if you guys think the price of a used Zl1 will go down with new Z28s hitting the market soon?
RyKramer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 11:20 AM   #2
Blueclyde

 
Blueclyde's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northeast Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,382
No. It will go down due to normal depreciation which is usually pretty steep.
__________________
2014 ZL1, AGM, Ricaros, M6, ECF
Blueclyde is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 11:28 AM   #3
I call it Vera
 
Drives: ZL1 Convertible
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueclyde View Post
No. It will go down due to normal depreciation which is usually pretty steep.
Agreed.

Honestly, very different cars. I'll keep my ragtop and amenities, TYVM.
I call it Vera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 11:30 AM   #4
onewaydave
Innocent Bystander
 
onewaydave's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 BRM/2002 35th SS/2009 GMC
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 335
No.
__________________

Living on the RaGgEd EdGe!
onewaydave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 11:31 AM   #5
el ess A
formerly "el ess X"
 
el ess A's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 & 2013 Camaros
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 3,512
With used cars, it's still like new ones. Supply and demand. If people are getting rid of a lot of ZL1s and they end up on car lots, then prices will plummet because of market saturation levels, which basically dictates your depreciation. If a car is still hot items, depreciation is slowed. People stop buying the new ones, the used market falls, too.

But familiarity breeds contempt, and with markets getting saturated with ZL1s, it's not a stretch to buy a new one from a normal used price with the discounts many dealers are willing to give. This further suppresses used car prices to get that elusive sweet spot in the difference of the price of a new and used version.

It's not always the best method, but if you want to save some jack on a ZL1 and be reasonably confident that the car is still a good one, buying a low-mile used one from an original owner is normally a good bet. There's an excellent chance the car has been well taken care of and you still don't have to pay new car price.

But it won't have much of an effect with only 500 Z/28s to contend with this year. They already have problems selling. Hence the $500 cash back on ZL1s.
__________________
2010/2013 Camaro

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=26108&dateline=139490  3951
el ess A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 11:36 AM   #6
Camaro_Corvette
36.833283,-76.021958
 
Camaro_Corvette's Avatar
 
Drives: Team 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 23,304
Not a chance.
__________________
Next order of business>><<Next order of business
Camaro_Corvette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 12:17 PM   #7
URBAN LEGEND

 
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 BMW M5/13 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,022
One has nothing to do with the other.
__________________
2013 ZL1
2013 BMW M5
URBAN LEGEND is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 12:48 PM   #8
BigBoyBlue
Go NY Giants & NY Rangers
 
BigBoyBlue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 780
The Z/28 has a very limited target market. Most people do not want such a "raw" car. The ZL1 has all the creature comforts and is faster in a straight line. It is also fast enough for most people on the track. Most won't want to pay the $20k premium for the Z/28 and only pick up a little more track capability. GM had to be pretty disappointed that the Z/28 only beat the ZL1 by 4 seconds (I think that was the difference) around the Nurburgring. I know it was wet, but GM was hoping for a wider time spread in order to validate the Z/28's large price premium.

The Z/28 is more of a advertisement for GM/Chevy's racing capabilities. They won't make much $$$ on the Z/28 directly, but it will certainly bring buyers into the lower Camaro trims.

Think of it: The SS is a niche car to begin with, the ZL1 even more of a niche car, with the Z/28 only shrinking the pool of potential buyers even more. None of the 3 should affect the other's values, unless there is some kind of a design flaw that they all share.
__________________
Molon Labe!

Last edited by BigBoyBlue; 03-06-2014 at 01:06 PM.
BigBoyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #9
The_Blur
Jayhawk USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Whiting Field
Posts: 14,306
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
They're both premium vehicles for different reasons. I don't see any logic in reducing the price.
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 12:57 PM   #10
RyKramer99
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 18
I appreciate the feed back, I am looking at getting my hands on a 2013 Zl1.
RyKramer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 01:11 PM   #11
ZL1Dan

 
ZL1Dan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 ZL1 #737
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 772
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyKramer99 View Post
I appreciate the feed back, I am looking at getting my hands on a 2013 Zl1.
Come on in. The water's fine.
__________________
There are only so many days in your lifetime. So get out and drive your Camaro...

ZL1Dan

Pics of The Red Baron, 2012 ZL1 #737:
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/CGF...%20Red%20Baron
ZL1Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 02:58 PM   #12
URBAN LEGEND

 
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 BMW M5/13 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyBlue View Post
The Z/28 has a very limited target market. Most people do not want such a "raw" car. The ZL1 has all the creature comforts and is faster in a straight line. It is also fast enough for most people on the track. Most won't want to pay the $20k premium for the Z/28 and only pick up a little more track capability. GM had to be pretty disappointed that the Z/28 only beat the ZL1 by 4 seconds (I think that was the difference) around the Nurburgring. I know it was wet, but GM was hoping for a wider time spread in order to validate the Z/28's large price premium.

The Z/28 is more of a advertisement for GM/Chevy's racing capabilities. They won't make much $$$ on the Z/28 directly, but it will certainly bring buyers into the lower Camaro trims.

Think of it: The SS is a niche car to begin with, the ZL1 even more of a niche car, with the Z/28 only shrinking the pool of potential buyers even more. None of the 3 should affect the other's values, unless there is some kind of a design flaw that they all share.
I not going to agree with the SS being a niche car at all.
__________________
2013 ZL1
2013 BMW M5
URBAN LEGEND is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 03:47 PM   #13
v8

 
v8's Avatar
 
Drives: GT500 and 14 ZL1
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oakville Ont.
Posts: 1,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by el ess A View Post
With used cars, it's still like new ones. Supply and demand. If people are getting rid of a lot of ZL1s and they end up on car lots, then prices will plummet because of market saturation levels, which basically dictates your depreciation. If a car is still hot items, depreciation is slowed. People stop buying the new ones, the used market falls, too.

But familiarity breeds contempt, and with markets getting saturated with ZL1s, it's not a stretch to buy a new one from a normal used price with the discounts many dealers are willing to give. This further suppresses used car prices to get that elusive sweet spot in the difference of the price of a new and used version.

It's not always the best method, but if you want to save some jack on a ZL1 and be reasonably confident that the car is still a good one, buying a low-mile used one from an original owner is normally a good bet. There's an excellent chance the car has been well taken care of and you still don't have to pay new car price.

But it won't have much of an effect with only 500 Z/28s to contend with this year. They already have problems selling. Hence the $500 cash back on ZL1s.
I agree, but I think the biggest factors are the Z/28's low production numbers (not enough to move the ZL1 market) and its price point. They are not close in price.

I guess its kind of like saying will the ZL1 push the price down on the SS's? I don't think it did.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
1974 Corvette Stingray 454
1986 Z28
2009 Mustang GT convertible
2012 45th 2SS Vert
2013 ZL1 M6

v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 04:22 PM   #14
RyKramer99
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 18
I think that the Stingray affected the ZL1 market, multiple dealers I spoke with said they got their ZL1 on a trade in for a Stingray.
RyKramer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 05:38 PM   #15
29er

 
29er's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 1LE Garage King
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MTL
Posts: 1,357
never!
29er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 05:46 PM   #16
BigBoyBlue
Go NY Giants & NY Rangers
 
BigBoyBlue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
I not going to agree with the SS being a niche car at all.
So, you think that as a percentage of total car sales the people looking for 2 door high powered V-8s with crappy gas mileage is large? Maybe in the 1960's, but nowadays most people go for soulless people movers.
__________________
Molon Labe!
BigBoyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 06:29 PM   #17
URBAN LEGEND

 
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 BMW M5/13 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyBlue View Post
So, you think that as a percentage of total car sales the people looking for 2 door high powered V-8s with crappy gas mileage is large? Maybe in the 1960's, but nowadays most people go for soulless people movers.
Prove this theory with facts and numbers. And I'll change my mind. I'll say to you that you were right. Do bring numbers and facts though.
__________________
2013 ZL1
2013 BMW M5
URBAN LEGEND is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 06:31 PM   #18
ZL1-V

 
ZL1-V's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyKramer99 View Post
I think that the Stingray affected the ZL1 market, multiple dealers I spoke with said they got their ZL1 on a trade in for a Stingray.
Those same people will most likely trade the Corvette in when the new car buzz wears off! Two different approaches with different goals. To answer the OP's question, nope, not going to happen.
ZL1-V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 06:34 PM   #19
AZCamaroFan
Coming Soon
 
AZCamaroFan's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 18,138



nothing ever goes down.
AZCamaroFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 07:19 PM   #20
el ess A
formerly "el ess X"
 
el ess A's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 & 2013 Camaros
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 3,512
Urban Legend wants some numbers, so here is some. 147,503 Prius Liftback hybrid sales in the US alone in 2012. This doesn't count the 60K plus other Prius family sales in the US for 2012. That would push Prius US sales in 2012 to over 207,000.

84,391 total Camaro sales in 2012. Add the 82,995 Mustang sales 43,119 Challys and you're up there at 210,505 TOTAL pony cars for 2012. And not all of those are V8s.

So that's ALL pony cars vs. 1 model from 1 brand of jelly bean cars. Throw in Toyota Camry's 2012 US sales figures of 404,886 and Camry/Prius 1-2 punch is nearing 610,000 units. So even if 1/2 of all the pony cars are V8s, lets even bump that to 75% for ease- that's 610K vs 157K in 2012. That's 4 times the rate. Extrapolate all the other jelly beans, like Ford Focus' 245,992 in 2012 US sales, and it gets evident pretty fast that only about 4 models or so of the jelly bean cars production dominance gap gets even further out.

There's facts/figures. People don't flock in droves to pony cars in general, period. But with that said, sales figures alone does not a niche car make. The ZL1 is more of a niche vehicle aimed at a certain market. So is the SRT8, GT500, Z/28 and other purpose oriented cars. SS's start at $33K and depending on options, are in the mid 40s or so when you're done. Consider that an inflation-adjusted 1985 loaded out Olds Cutlass cost around $35,000 in today's dollars, I wouldn't say that they're priced in the "niche" market. I concede there are niche versions of the SS, such as the 1LE, HotWheels, etc., but the SS in general would not really be considered a niche vehicle on its own. Sorry. Just doesn't compute and I don't think the numbers could hold it up.
__________________
2010/2013 Camaro

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=26108&dateline=139490  3951
el ess A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 07:25 PM   #21
lbls1

 
lbls1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2009 Malibu LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 1,901
Prices go up, not down lol!!!!
__________________
'02 CAMARO SS SOM; 5.7L LS1/FLS6B
'08 TBSS AWD Black Granite Metallic
'09 Malibu LT Dark Gray Metallic

'14 CAMARO ZL1 Blue Ray Metallic
lbls1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 07:43 PM   #22
JAX CAMARO

 
Drives: orange 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: royersford Pa
Posts: 1,015
So how long have you been smokin the crack pipe Cuz ??
__________________
ARH 1 7/8" Headers W/HFC, GM Performance Exhaust / K&N Typhoon CAI, Comp Custom Grind Dominator 3 Cam, Pioneer Dual Valve Springs, Trickflow Push rods, IWIS Timing Chain, Rapid Motorsports Tune, 496 RWHP
JAX CAMARO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 08:28 PM   #23
BigBoyBlue
Go NY Giants & NY Rangers
 
BigBoyBlue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by el ess A View Post
Urban Legend wants some numbers, so here is some. 147,503 Prius Liftback hybrid sales in the US alone in 2012. This doesn't count the 60K plus other Prius family sales in the US for 2012. That would push Prius US sales in 2012 to over 207,000.

84,391 total Camaro sales in 2012. Add the 82,995 Mustang sales 43,119 Challys and you're up there at 210,505 TOTAL pony cars for 2012. And not all of those are V8s.

So that's ALL pony cars vs. 1 model from 1 brand of jelly bean cars. Throw in Toyota Camry's 2012 US sales figures of 404,886 and Camry/Prius 1-2 punch is nearing 610,000 units. So even if 1/2 of all the pony cars are V8s, lets even bump that to 75% for ease- that's 610K vs 157K in 2012. That's 4 times the rate. Extrapolate all the other jelly beans, like Ford Focus' 245,992 in 2012 US sales, and it gets evident pretty fast that only about 4 models or so of the jelly bean cars production dominance gap gets even further out.

There's facts/figures. People don't flock in droves to pony cars in general, period. But with that said, sales figures alone does not a niche car make. The ZL1 is more of a niche vehicle aimed at a certain market. So is the SRT8, GT500, Z/28 and other purpose oriented cars. SS's start at $33K and depending on options, are in the mid 40s or so when you're done. Consider that an inflation-adjusted 1985 loaded out Olds Cutlass cost around $35,000 in today's dollars, I wouldn't say that they're priced in the "niche" market. I concede there are niche versions of the SS, such as the 1LE, HotWheels, etc., but the SS in general would not really be considered a niche vehicle on its own. Sorry. Just doesn't compute and I don't think the numbers could hold it up.
Thanks for the help.

Btw, when I call a V8 Camaro or Mustang a "niche" car, I did not mean to imply they were expensive/exclusive. I mean there is a limited market that they appeal to and they will never be high volume cars.

Both Chevy and Ford sales managers (where I bought my cars) told me the "typical" buyer is a guy over 35yrs. old with a good income. I guess we still remember when the original musclecars still roamed the streets in numbers.
__________________
Molon Labe!
BigBoyBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 08:55 PM   #24
holanxiaoq
 
Drives: audi
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: gho
Posts: 4
There's an excellent chance the car has been well taken care of and you still don't have to pay new car price.
holanxiaoq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:49 AM   #25
RyKramer99
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZL1Dan View Post
Come on in. The water's fine.
Well I jumped in, signing the papers Monday for my ZL1!
RyKramer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
z28, zl1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.