LA Times: Design Changes Delay Camaro's Return to the Muscle-Car Race - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

JustinZS · 03-30-2008, 01:08 AM

Saturday, March 29th, 2008
By Martin Zimmerman
Los Angeles Times

"Design Changes Delay Camaro's Return to the Muscle-Car Race"

The new Chevy Camaro would seem to have everything going for it; a genuinely storied tradition, a built-in fan base, even a staring role in a blockbuster movie.

But as they say at the local comedy club, timing is everything. And in that regard, at least, the Camaro can't seem to get its act together.

General Motors Corp. expects to have the new Camaro in dealer showrooms during the first quarter of 2009. That would be three years after the Camaro concept car was unveiled as GM's entry in the current muscle-car revival and well behind such retro rivals as the Ford Mustang and Chrysler's Dodge Challenger.

"I honestly don't understand what they're wating for," said Dick Guldstrand of Burbank, Calif.-based Guldstrand Motor Sports.

Certainly, fans of the original Camaro are eager to get a look at the new version. The last Camaro rolled off the assembly line in 2002, and the versions seen since have all been concepts, including the yellow and black copy that starred as Bumble-bee in last summer's popcorn hit Transformers.

GM knows that more than a few of its customers are toe-tapping with impatience. Designing the car around a new rear-wheel drive platform, rather than using existing automotive architecture as did Ford and Chrysler, is the main reason for the delay, GM spokeswoman Wendy Clark said.

"Maybe we showed the concept a little early," she said. "I know it feels like a long time. But it will be worth the wait."

Or will GM miss the "sweet spot" of the muscle-car rebirth? the trend began a few years back, when Ford fielded a redesigned Mustang that mimicked the lines of the iconic late '60's fire-breather but came with such modern amenities as fuel injection, air bags and four-wheel disc brakes.

The vintage look proved to be a big hit with baby boomer's who recalled the muscle cars of the late '60's and early '70's, including the Challenger, the Pontiac GTO, the Plymouth Barracuda and the Camaro Z28. Those cars, fabled as much for their dreadful handling and braking as for their straight-line speed, are the new stars of the collectible-car circuit, with rare and well-preserved models selling for millions of dollars.

The Camaro concepts seen so far have strong echoes of the 1969 model, considered by many to be the ultimate expression of the car, itself one of the gems of the muscle car era.

"If you're not into it, it's hard to explain," said Los Angeles attorney Barry Freeman, 69, who owns two vintage Camaros.

"It's a seduction that people of my generation have never escaped from, nor do I want to."

The first muscle cars were killed off by high gasoline prices, a weakening economy, new federal regulations, and rising insurance rates. Those same factors are threatening to choke off the cars' comeback before the new Camaro even reaches dealers.

"It's a tough time to be introducing cars like the Challenger and the Camaro," said Karl Brauer, editor and chief of online auto site Edmunds.com, noting that the Mustang sales already began to slide last year.

"The number of muscle cars in the market is a good barometer of how well things are going in the economy, and these cars are late getting to the party."

It doesn't help that the new fuel-economy standards congress passed in December will make it tougher for automakers to justify selling big-engined cars.

GM points out that the new Camaro will be available in a more fuel-efficient six-cylinder version, as well as a V-8

Camaro_crazy · 03-30-2008, 01:51 AM

Well First off, living right outside of LA, The LA Times isn't really known for its knowledge of anything, much less Muscle Cars. From what I know, There's nothing being delayed, and they have planned to release the Camaro in early 2009 for quite a while.

Secondly, I don't understand how they are still comparing the Camaro to any other "muscle cars" released by Ford or Dodge... What's a Mustang?

Anyway, this article is just filler for Los Angeles Times; as long as they stir a few people they are happy. Let's just wait and see what the Detroit Times has to say.

Roflmao · 03-30-2008, 02:28 AM

The article is nuts, the fact that they are getting a brand new car out like that in 3 years I think is a feat in itself. Glad I don't live in LA to even have an option to subscribe to a paper like this.

LS9CamaroSS · 03-30-2008, 02:34 AM

well like it said the Zeta platform is a brand new thing. they want to get the platform fight before building the car because the platform makes or breaks the car. i agree that 3 years is an amazingly quick amount of time to get this kind of vehicle out.

*TAG UR IT* · 03-30-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

"It's a tough time to be introducing cars like the Challenger and the Camaro," said Karl Brauer, editor and chief of online auto site Edmunds.com, noting that the Mustang sales already began to slide last year.

Hmmm...could....it.....be......because some folks are saving thier pennies for the big dogs?!?!?!

Camaro_crazy · 03-30-2008, 03:17 AM

Possibly, or people are finally coming to their senses.

swazworth · 03-30-2008, 04:44 AM

^^^

fRenzy · 03-30-2008, 04:51 AM

Sounds like just a filler, and yes I am saving my pennies for the big dog!

desertice · 03-30-2008, 06:49 AM

I Think its just afiller....however there is little truth in it,
The Zeta platform has been ready and used by GM holden to manuefacture
Lumina and Caprice for Asaia and ME market.its also used for the new pontiac G8.
I would expected GM to launch the new Camaro just after they launched the Pontiac G8 in north america.

Again it seem that the camaro will have the same engines options and powertrain on the camaro as the G8 as part of there new universal platform
program.

OverAnxious · 03-30-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinZS

Saturday, March 29th, 2008
By Martin Zimmerman
Los Angeles Times

"Design Changes Delay Camaro's Return to the Muscle-Car Race"

The new Chevy Camaro would seem to have everything going for it; a genuinely storied tradition, a built-in fan base, even a staring role in a blockbuster movie.

Link to the article? I'm unable to find it on the LA Times or via google?

What is the delay this beat writer is referring to? We have always been told to expect the car in showrooms during the first quarter 2009.

Regarding the Dick Guldstrand quote - I'd like to see his program get a vehicle of this magnatude on a shared platform get it to market quicker

Maddog78 · 03-30-2008, 10:34 AM

It's a puff piece, a filler.
No news here folks. Move along now please.

*DGthe3* · 03-30-2008, 11:04 AM

There are no design changes, at least nothing significant. Secondly, and this is minor, but they mentioned Camaro Z28 then said "fabled as much for their dreadful handling and braking as for their straight-line speed". Sounds like the person who wrote the article doesn't have a big background in muscle cars

stovt001 · 03-30-2008, 11:38 AM

Wow, this is the worst article I have ever read from the LA Times, and I have read a number of truly awful articles. First, what is the design change or delay? The article mentions nothing of either a design change nor a delay, yet the headline boldly proclaims one. Secondly, among the many factual errors in this article, the one that stands out the most is picking out the Z28 for bad handling. Sigh, I was supposed to do homework today, but I guess I'll be writing a letter to the editor instead.

kinyu · 03-30-2008, 11:55 AM

Design change? The thing almost looks exactly like the concept. There is some truth to GM possibly introducing the concept early though. Although I was thrilled to see it, think of how much less "toe tapping" there would be if they had introduced the concept right when Transformers came out.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 03-30-2008, 01:23 PM

...I don't...That title had nothing to do with the article...Wh-?

whatever; NO delays, it's coming 1QT '09. End of story.

Scotsman · 03-30-2008, 07:53 PM

Well, we know he's off the mark in regards to design right off the bat. However, the author does have a point in regards to the timing of the production cars launch, but I don't think it's that big an issue; GM's not selling a truck, it's a passenger car that will have better gas mileage regardless of engine choice next to any overweight people/utility hauler. And for the next generation the Camaro will definitely get smaller, so any potential concerns for the future of the Camaro as well as it's success in the market place based off of fuel consumption can be put to rest.

MikeT · 03-30-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinZS

The vintage look proved to be a big hit with baby boomer's who recalled the muscle cars of the late '60's and early '70's, including the Challenger, the Pontiac GTO, the Plymouth Barracuda and the Camaro Z28. Those cars, fabled as much for their dreadful handling and braking as for their straight-line speed, are the new stars of the collectible-car circuit, with rare and well-preserved models selling for millions of dollars.

Okay, muscle cars of the late '60s and early '70s are highly collectible, but are well-preserved models really selling for "millions of dollars"? I mean, I've heard of near-mint vehicles of that sort selling for like $100K, but not "millions."

fbodfather · 03-30-2008, 11:30 PM

ANOTHER REASON to hate the LA Times....

(.........as if I needed another reason........)

Complete rubbish.

*DGthe3* · 03-30-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeT

Okay, muscle cars of the late '60s and early '70s are highly collectible, but are well-preserved models really selling for "millions of dollars"? I mean, I've heard of near-mint vehicles of that sort selling for like $100K, but not "millions."

Really good cars will sell for hundreds. They need to be numbers matching, no miles, perfect condition, and rare. Some will sell for millions, but only a select few. Carol Shelbys Cobra sold for 5.5 mil. That is about the most extreme example, you won't see a Z28 be worth nearly as much as that car.

NOODLESgoneWILD · 03-31-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbodfather

ANOTHER REASON to hate the LA Times....

(.........as if I needed another reason........)

Complete rubbish.

Agreed^^^^^

Lived in LA for 10 Years. And the

LA Times is

not worth the paper its printed on.

Gunner KS1 · 03-31-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverAnxious

Link to the article? I'm unable to find it on the LA Times or via google?

What is the delay this beat writer is referring to? We have always been told to expect the car in showrooms during the first quarter 2009.

Regarding the Dick Guldstrand quote - I'd like to see his program get a vehicle of this magnatude on a shared platform get it to market quicker

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/va...,5470712.story

Emher · 03-31-2008, 03:57 AM

This reminds me of when a Swedish "newspaper" Expressen's American car corrospondant did a test drive of the concept in Miami. I found that article the other day and remember reading it before I got really into this car and thinking it was hot but to pricey. First of let me say that this whole article has just got loads of innacurate info, like for example that it was to have an LS2 just because the concept does. But anyway the price they set to 560 000 SEK. Adjusted with todays dollar value that's about 94k USD. Adjusted more properly since the dollar is low it's about 56k. That's Corvette territory even here.

So if anyone from Expressen reads this: leave the serious car reporting to car magazines, you're just making yourself look like idiots. Oh and also if you haven't figured it out, you were about 250 000 SEK to high with that price.

SilverTurtle · 03-31-2008, 06:00 AM

:blah: :blah: :blah: I'm a moron who likes to stir up readers :blah: :blah: :blah:

that's all I got out of that article

LS9CamaroSS · 03-31-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emher

This reminds me of when a Swedish "newspaper" Expressen's American car corrospondant did a test drive of the concept in Miami. I found that article the other day and remember reading it before I got really into this car and thinking it was hot but to pricey. First of let me say that this whole article has just got loads of innacurate info, like for example that it was to have an LS2 just because the concept does. But anyway the price they set to 560 000 SEK. Adjusted with todays dollar value that's about 94k USD. Adjusted more properly since the dollar is low it's about 56k. That's Corvette territory even here.

So if anyone from Expressen reads this: leave the serious car reporting to car magazines, you're just making yourself look like idiots. Oh and also if you haven't figured it out, you were about 250 000 SEK to high with that price.

LS9CamaroSS · 03-31-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Really good cars will sell for hundreds. They need to be numbers matching, no miles, perfect condition, and rare. Some will sell for millions, but only a select few. Carol Shelbys Cobra sold for 5.5 mil. That is about the most extreme example, you won't see a Z28 be worth nearly as much as that car.

if you get the SPEED channel watch Barret Jackson's car auction. you normally only see the best of the best cars on there. Hardly any exotics just American classics. The announcers really know what the hell they're talking about too. we're past that time of the year, but it comes on in January and the last one was just this weekend...

03-30-2008, 01:08 AM	#1
JustinZS Drives: waitin on 2010 !! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 126	LA Times: Design Changes Delay Camaro's Return to the Muscle-Car Race Saturday, March 29th, 2008 By Martin Zimmerman Los Angeles Times "Design Changes Delay Camaro's Return to the Muscle-Car Race" The new Chevy Camaro would seem to have everything going for it; a genuinely storied tradition, a built-in fan base, even a staring role in a blockbuster movie. But as they say at the local comedy club, timing is everything. And in that regard, at least, the Camaro can't seem to get its act together. General Motors Corp. expects to have the new Camaro in dealer showrooms during the first quarter of 2009. That would be three years after the Camaro concept car was unveiled as GM's entry in the current muscle-car revival and well behind such retro rivals as the Ford Mustang and Chrysler's Dodge Challenger. "I honestly don't understand what they're wating for," said Dick Guldstrand of Burbank, Calif.-based Guldstrand Motor Sports. Certainly, fans of the original Camaro are eager to get a look at the new version. The last Camaro rolled off the assembly line in 2002, and the versions seen since have all been concepts, including the yellow and black copy that starred as Bumble-bee in last summer's popcorn hit Transformers. GM knows that more than a few of its customers are toe-tapping with impatience. Designing the car around a new rear-wheel drive platform, rather than using existing automotive architecture as did Ford and Chrysler, is the main reason for the delay, GM spokeswoman Wendy Clark said. "Maybe we showed the concept a little early," she said. "I know it feels like a long time. But it will be worth the wait." Or will GM miss the "sweet spot" of the muscle-car rebirth? the trend began a few years back, when Ford fielded a redesigned Mustang that mimicked the lines of the iconic late '60's fire-breather but came with such modern amenities as fuel injection, air bags and four-wheel disc brakes. The vintage look proved to be a big hit with baby boomer's who recalled the muscle cars of the late '60's and early '70's, including the Challenger, the Pontiac GTO, the Plymouth Barracuda and the Camaro Z28. Those cars, fabled as much for their dreadful handling and braking as for their straight-line speed, are the new stars of the collectible-car circuit, with rare and well-preserved models selling for millions of dollars. The Camaro concepts seen so far have strong echoes of the 1969 model, considered by many to be the ultimate expression of the car, itself one of the gems of the muscle car era. "If you're not into it, it's hard to explain," said Los Angeles attorney Barry Freeman, 69, who owns two vintage Camaros. "It's a seduction that people of my generation have never escaped from, nor do I want to." The first muscle cars were killed off by high gasoline prices, a weakening economy, new federal regulations, and rising insurance rates. Those same factors are threatening to choke off the cars' comeback before the new Camaro even reaches dealers. "It's a tough time to be introducing cars like the Challenger and the Camaro," said Karl Brauer, editor and chief of online auto site Edmunds.com, noting that the Mustang sales already began to slide last year. "The number of muscle cars in the market is a good barometer of how well things are going in the economy, and these cars are late getting to the party." It doesn't help that the new fuel-economy standards congress passed in December will make it tougher for automakers to justify selling big-engined cars. GM points out that the new Camaro will be available in a more fuel-efficient six-cylinder version, as well as a V-8

03-30-2008, 01:51 AM	#2
Camaro_crazy Drives: 2008 Cobalt SS/TC Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Victorville, CA Posts: 125	Well First off, living right outside of LA, The LA Times isn't really known for its knowledge of anything, much less Muscle Cars. From what I know, There's nothing being delayed, and they have planned to release the Camaro in early 2009 for quite a while. Secondly, I don't understand how they are still comparing the Camaro to any other "muscle cars" released by Ford or Dodge... What's a Mustang? Anyway, this article is just filler for Los Angeles Times; as long as they stir a few people they are happy. Let's just wait and see what the Detroit Times has to say. __________________ "America is all about speed. Hot, Nasty, Bad-Ass Speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

03-30-2008, 03:17 AM	#6
Camaro_crazy Drives: 2008 Cobalt SS/TC Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Victorville, CA Posts: 125	Possibly, or people are finally coming to their senses. __________________ "America is all about speed. Hot, Nasty, Bad-Ass Speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

03-30-2008, 04:51 AM	#8
fRenzy Where's the Beer? Drives: 07 Tacoma :( Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 68	Sounds like just a filler, and yes I am saving my pennies for the big dog! __________________

03-30-2008, 11:04 AM	#12
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 20,692	There are no design changes, at least nothing significant. Secondly, and this is minor, but they mentioned Camaro Z28 then said "fabled as much for their dreadful handling and braking as for their straight-line speed". Sounds like the person who wrote the article doesn't have a big background in muscle cars __________________ Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them __________________ Quote: In 2014 the camaro will have ... a twin turbo v6 ... around 350 to 360HP No. Let me repeat that. No. FbodFather __________________ Camaro5 Fest III Information Camaro5 Fest III pre-registration

03-30-2008, 02:28 AM	#3
Roflmao Insane Assylum Escapee Drives: 1998 Camry Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 199	The article is nuts, the fact that they are getting a brand new car out like that in 3 years I think is a feat in itself. Glad I don't live in LA to even have an option to subscribe to a paper like this.

03-30-2008, 02:34 AM	#4
LS9CamaroSS Drives: Cavalier RS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jordan, NY Posts: 569	well like it said the Zeta platform is a brand new thing. they want to get the platform fight before building the car because the platform makes or breaks the car. i agree that 3 years is an amazingly quick amount of time to get this kind of vehicle out.

03-30-2008, 04:44 AM	#7
swazworth the nerd king Drives: 2005 scion xb... Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: phoenix, az Posts: 428	^^^

03-30-2008, 06:49 AM	#9
desertice Drives: corvette/M6/Gallardo LP560-4 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: saudi arabia Posts: 3	I Think its just afiller....however there is little truth in it, The Zeta platform has been ready and used by GM holden to manuefacture Lumina and Caprice for Asaia and ME market.its also used for the new pontiac G8. I would expected GM to launch the new Camaro just after they launched the Pontiac G8 in north america. Again it seem that the camaro will have the same engines options and powertrain on the camaro as the G8 as part of there new universal platform program.

03-30-2008, 10:34 AM	#11
Maddog78 Drives: 1969 Z28 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: BC Posts: 378	It's a puff piece, a filler. No news here folks. Move along now please.

03-30-2008, 11:38 AM	#13
stovt001 Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,817	Wow, this is the worst article I have ever read from the LA Times, and I have read a number of truly awful articles. First, what is the design change or delay? The article mentions nothing of either a design change nor a delay, yet the headline boldly proclaims one. Secondly, among the many factual errors in this article, the one that stands out the most is picking out the Z28 for bad handling. Sigh, I was supposed to do homework today, but I guess I'll be writing a letter to the editor instead.

03-30-2008, 11:55 AM	#14
kinyu Drives: POS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 107	Design change? The thing almost looks exactly like the concept. There is some truth to GM possibly introducing the concept early though. Although I was thrilled to see it, think of how much less "toe tapping" there would be if they had introduced the concept right when Transformers came out.

03-30-2008, 01:23 PM	#15
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2012 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 25,227 View My Garage	...I don't...That title had nothing to do with the article...Wh-? whatever; NO delays, it's coming 1QT '09. End of story. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - - *Read Before You Post.*

03-30-2008, 07:53 PM	#16
Scotsman Auto Pilot Drives: Gunmetal Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 1,307	Well, we know he's off the mark in regards to design right off the bat. However, the author does have a point in regards to the timing of the production cars launch, but I don't think it's that big an issue; GM's not selling a truck, it's a passenger car that will have better gas mileage regardless of engine choice next to any overweight people/utility hauler. And for the next generation the Camaro will definitely get smaller, so any potential concerns for the future of the Camaro as well as it's success in the market place based off of fuel consumption can be put to rest. __________________ "Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?

03-30-2008, 11:30 PM	#18
fbodfather Drives: Camaros................ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI (suburban Detroit) Posts: 4,073	ANOTHER REASON to hate the LA Times.... (.........as if I needed another reason........) Complete rubbish.

03-31-2008, 03:57 AM	#22
Emher Pillaging Viking Drives: Saab 9-5 '99 (Hey it's a GM!) Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,205	This reminds me of when a Swedish "newspaper" Expressen's American car corrospondant did a test drive of the concept in Miami. I found that article the other day and remember reading it before I got really into this car and thinking it was hot but to pricey. First of let me say that this whole article has just got loads of innacurate info, like for example that it was to have an LS2 just because the concept does. But anyway the price they set to 560 000 SEK. Adjusted with todays dollar value that's about 94k USD. Adjusted more properly since the dollar is low it's about 56k. That's Corvette territory even here. So if anyone from Expressen reads this: leave the serious car reporting to car magazines, you're just making yourself look like idiots. Oh and also if you haven't figured it out, you were about 250 000 SEK to high with that price. __________________ "Fifty years from now, when you're looking back at your life, don't you want to be able to say you had the guts to get in the car?"

03-31-2008, 06:00 AM	#23
SilverTurtle Reality Check Specialist Drives: '02 Z28, 2012 45th SS Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ATX Posts: 1,711	:blah: :blah: :blah: I'm a moron who likes to stir up readers :blah: :blah: :blah: that's all I got out of that article __________________ got tequila?

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