Cam basics - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

jpsuperman81 · 07-30-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

The 30,000 mile valve spring change was mentioned to me. I have no experience with cams so please don't take it as fact necessarily.
I was hoping to get recommendations from the more knowledgeable members here. If this isn't the appropriate thread for this, then I apologize.

I knew what you were saying and I also was juust trying to get the most info and best directions to proceed.

RonC · 07-30-2009, 03:43 PM

How about posting up all the specs of the stock LS3 and L99 cams. Hopefully someone out there knows this. It would be good to see what lift, duration, LSA, overlap and installed ICL the factory cams we have are to start with.

Knowing how and why the cam specs effect performance really helps to select the right cam for your car. A smaller cam that makes "more average power" will be more enjoyable to drive for most people.

*CamaroSpike23* · 07-30-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra

what the?!?!

how the heck did you...

...wait!! when did you become a mod?!

what....? I'm a mod? NO WAY!!!!

you had to stretch pretty far for that one, didn't you?

lol

trust me... it wasn't like that when i hit submit!
sure it wasn't....

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

What will the effect of changing a cam be on engine life?

I spoke with Mast Motorsports about their stage 1 (least Aggressive) cam which is designed to be used in conjunction with a supercharger. They told me any cam switch requires replacing the valve springs for proper engine wear. I also spoke with Ron at vengeance racing and he recommends changing the springs at 30,000 mile intervals.

I intend to supercharge this engine. I am tempted for the price/performance gain to start by first replacing the cam. I don't want to lose the bottom or mid-range acceleration. I also don't want to damage the engine. I've read everything I can find, but don't understand it well enough yet. I have been following pharmMD's build, which is along the lines of what I intend to do.

Any recommendations?

I will say that Mast Motorsports knows their isht with AFM motors.

they are dead on that ANY cam swap requires upgrading the springs to match. now, that being said, some "hot cams" can be run with stock springs, but most times you are running right at the max lift the spring can take. which is why its always a good idea to upgrade the rest of the valvetrain when doing a cam swap.

but start a new thread and copy your post in it and I'll be over there to comment. I would answer here, but things will get muddied up if I answered everyone's questions in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikarus

So what is the gross lift on the LS3 cam?

I know it lists lift .552/.525 but the LS3 uses 1.7 rockers, so the gross lift on the cam is .325/.308?

Just curious becasue I am speculating on what cams are being run to in aftermarket apps.

I've got the lift #'s for the LS3 somewhere, give me a sec and I'll throw them in.

ive got them for the L99

Camshaft Lobe Lift - Exhaust - Non Active Fuel Management Cylinders
7.48 mm
0.294 in

Camshaft Lobe Lift - Exhaust - Active Fuel Management Cylinders
7.61 mm
0.300 in

Camshaft Lobe Lift - Intake - Non Active Fuel Management Cylinders
7.48 mm
0.294 in

Camshaft Lobe Lift - Intake - Active Fuel Management Cylinders
7.61 mm
0.300 in

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsuperman81

Ok guys I was thinking about a cam, I have almost decided to do nearly everything besides forced induction. I don't know anything about cams but I saw ADM offers stage one and stage two and I was leaning towards stage 2 type of cam. I don't want the very first step and I don't want an extreme. I also want to keep the engine as safe as possible, I was told I needed to upgrade springs and the pushrods. Do the springs need to be changed every 30,000 like an above person mentioned? Is there any other info you can give me or any suggestions? Car will be a daily driver but that doesn't mean a lot of mileage, it will never see track or strip but I still want to make it a beast.

start a new thread and we'll talk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

The 30,000 mile valve spring change was mentioned to me. I have no experience with cams so please don't take it as fact necessarily.
I was hoping to get recommendations from the more knowledgeable members here. If this isn't the appropriate thread for this, then I apologize.

I've heard of the 30,000 mile spring change but ive never seen anyone do it. (with the exception of swapping to a better spring/cam setup in general) As long as you get the proper springs to begin with, you shouldnt need to swap them every 30,000 miles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

How about posting up all the specs of the stock LS3 and L99 cams. Hopefully someone out there knows this. It would be good to see what lift, duration, LSA, overlap and installed ICL the factory cams we have are to start with.

Knowing how and why the cam specs effect performance really helps to select the right cam for your car. A smaller cam that makes "more average power" will be more enjoyable to drive for most people.

I'll be adding the specs for the L99 and the LS3 stock cams in a little bit.

and the last part that I highlighted is

a broad power curve with less peak power is more pleasant for a street/strip/dd setup. for a pure race car, you want more power in the top end, since that is where you will be spending most of the time at.

*CamaroSpike23* · 07-30-2009, 06:12 PM

ls3 stock cam specs posted on OP

usmcjlp · 07-30-2009, 07:01 PM

Thank you, I will post new thread.

tandtperformance · 08-02-2009, 06:53 PM

iam putting my new cam and spring kit in this weds ans then will have dyno sheet
i will also be seling my kit if any int

GEN-IV · 08-06-2009, 07:02 AM

Excellent post CamaroSpike23.

Here is a little more detail on the differences between flat tappets and roller lifters. Everyone knows that roller camshafts give a more "aggressive" valve event. The aggressiveness is a function of lift, the rate of change of lift which is velocity, and the rate of change of velocity, which is acceleration. A roller cam can be ground with a more aggessive profile because it can tolerate higher stress levels and does not have the velocity limitation that a flat tappet cam has. Flat tappet cams can be ground with high accelerations, but are velocity limited due to the diameter of the lifter. Roller camshafts are not velocity limited, but the cam profile becomes concave as accelerations increase, making them expensive to grind.

Most roller camshafts are made from hardened steel, although some are made from a specific grade of cast iron, or even powdered metal. The combination of a steel cam and a quality steel roller bearing follower allow roller cams to operate at higher stress level, typically 250,000 PSI (or 250 KSI) in production engines. Flat tappet camshafts are made from cast iron, and are limited to contact stress levels of about 140 KSI.

GEN-IV · 08-06-2009, 07:08 AM

Excellent post CamaroSpike23.

Here is a little more detail on the differences between flat tappets and roller lifters. Everyone knows that roller camshafts give a more "aggressive" valve event. The aggressiveness is a function of lift, the rate of change of lift which is velocity, and the rate of change of velocity, which is acceleration. A roller cam can be ground with a more aggessive profile because it can tolerate higher stress levels and does not have the velocity limitation that a flat tappet cam has. Flat tappet cams can be ground with high accelerations, but are velocity limited due to the diameter of the lifter. Roller camshafts are not velocity limited, but the cam profile becomes concave as accelerations increase, making them expensive to grind.

Most roller camshafts are made from hardened steel, although some are made from a specific grade of cast iron, or even powdered metal. The combination of a steel cam and a quality steel roller bearing follower allow roller cams to operate at higher stress level, typically 250,000 PSI (or 250 KSI) in production engines. Flat tappet camshafts are made from cast iron, and are limited to contact stress levels of about 140 KSI.

*CamaroSpike23* · 08-08-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEN-IV

Excellent post CamaroSpike23.

Here is a little more detail on the differences between flat tappets and roller lifters. Everyone knows that roller camshafts give a more "aggressive" valve event. The aggressiveness is a function of lift, the rate of change of lift which is velocity, and the rate of change of velocity, which is acceleration. A roller cam can be ground with a more aggessive profile because it can tolerate higher stress levels and does not have the velocity limitation that a flat tappet cam has. Flat tappet cams can be ground with high accelerations, but are velocity limited due to the diameter of the lifter. Roller camshafts are not velocity limited, but the cam profile becomes concave as accelerations increase, making them expensive to grind.

Most roller camshafts are made from hardened steel, although some are made from a specific grade of cast iron, or even powdered metal. The combination of a steel cam and a quality steel roller bearing follower allow roller cams to operate at higher stress level, typically 250,000 PSI (or 250 KSI) in production engines. Flat tappet camshafts are made from cast iron, and are limited to contact stress levels of about 140 KSI.

thanks. your deleted post has better pics if you dont mind, im going to add them to the first post.

GEN-IV · 08-10-2009, 07:58 AM

No problem, glad you liked it! You can see my deleted posts? Yikes, now you can see all of my spelling errors

*CamaroSpike23* · 08-10-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEN-IV

No problem, glad you liked it! You can see my deleted posts? Yikes, now you can see all of my spelling errors

being a moderator has its perks.... would you mind if I un-deleted it? the info goes well with the pics.

GEN-IV · 08-10-2009, 11:18 AM

You can undelete it, I was just trying to point out the roller cam flank concavity issue, but that graphic works too.

Superman09 · 08-11-2009, 11:42 PM

just an FYI on the 30K spring change, my boss (who was a former drag racer) says that changing springs every 30K was designed by companies to make money. But if you have to money to do it every 30K it wouldn't hurt but he let his run 45-50K and only replaced them because he was selling the car to a friend. Hope this helps a little bit

*CamaroSpike23* · 08-19-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 BAD RS 2 SS

NEW 2 THE FORUM ALOT OF GOOD Q AND A s .... Ive got alot of catchimg up 2 do my car is 20 days new 2 me

welcome to the site. feel free to ask questions. use the search button up top to see if it has already been discussed before. enjoy your stay here!

PQ · 08-20-2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEN-IV

No problem, glad you liked it! You can see my deleted posts? Yikes, now you can see all of my spelling errors

And all of MY naked stuff.

ok, checked out the thread. This looks like a lot of fun. Still would be scared to crack it open though.

coronado89 · 10-15-2009, 11:36 PM

Is the LS3 cam a 3 bolt cam or a single bolt cam??

mberry023 · 04-15-2010, 12:12 AM

Will a larger cam like th LG Motorsports G6x3 cam effect the knock sensors?

LAWMAN · 04-22-2010, 12:48 PM

just a "fyi"...first off,i am a parts manager for a chevy/cad. dealer in pascagoula ms., i have been debateing for awhile now about changeing my cam,i do not race my ls3 at the strip,and i have not raced it yet,but.....when i do,i want the ponies there,i have cai,gmpp exaust,(about to change to kooks l/t)and a tune,but gm has a performance hot cam available that will give you alot of bang for your buck($)..the ls hot cam produces 50more hp and the trq.jumps from 424 to 475,which is a 12% gain by way of 0.525 inch lift on both intake and exaust along with 219-degree/228 degree duration,not a bad investment at under $500 for the cam that adds 50 horses,

se7en · 05-12-2010, 05:31 AM

Finally i have a better understanding of how a Cam works exactly!
Thanks guys

*CamaroSpike23* · 05-15-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bws_82

Finally i have a better understanding of how a Cam works exactly!
Thanks guys

thats what we're here for

tiresmokindad · 05-24-2010, 12:31 AM

Nice information. I learned for your post. I would like to know how to about the single pattern? What is the difference with dual pattern?

American Muscle · 05-24-2010, 08:18 PM

don't know if this has been posted on here or not but I found this on lsxtv.com. pretty good write up. http://www.lsxtv.com/forum/camshaft-101-a-2656.html

Becca · 08-09-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAWMAN

just a "fyi"...first off,i am a parts manager for a chevy/cad. dealer in pascagoula ms., i have been debateing for awhile now about changeing my cam,i do not race my ls3 at the strip,and i have not raced it yet,but.....when i do,i want the ponies there,i have cai,gmpp exaust,(about to change to kooks l/t)and a tune,but gm has a performance hot cam available that will give you alot of bang for your buck($)..the ls hot cam produces 50more hp and the trq.jumps from 424 to 475,which is a 12% gain by way of 0.525 inch lift on both intake and exaust along with 219-degree/228 degree duration,not a bad investment at under $500 for the cam that adds 50 horses,

OMG...please tell me I can call my dealer and get one!!! I am so doing this when I get back from my deployment if they do!!!

...oh and awesome job on this thread...great info!!!

spike347 · 08-19-2010, 09:07 PM

I was good with this until someone said he was going to drill a hole in the end of the cam with a hand drill???

*CamaroSpike23* · 09-12-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiresmokindad

Nice information. I learned for your post. I would like to know how to about the single pattern? What is the difference with dual pattern?

Single and Dual pattern cams

Single Pattern
In this type of cam, the intake and exhaust lobe profiles are identical, using equal amounts of duration and lift.

Dual Pattern
This type of cam has different intake and exhaust profiles. In general, the exhaust lobe will employ more lift and duration to help evacuate exhaust gas from the cylinders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike347

I was good with this until someone said he was going to drill a hole in the end of the cam with a hand drill???

where did you read that?

08-06-2009, 07:02 AM	#32
GEN-IV HEMI Hunter Drives: 06 GTO / 79 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maine Posts: 469	Excellent post CamaroSpike23. Here is a little more detail on the differences between flat tappets and roller lifters. Everyone knows that roller camshafts give a more "aggressive" valve event. The aggressiveness is a function of lift, the rate of change of lift which is velocity, and the rate of change of velocity, which is acceleration. A roller cam can be ground with a more aggessive profile because it can tolerate higher stress levels and does not have the velocity limitation that a flat tappet cam has. Flat tappet cams can be ground with high accelerations, but are velocity limited due to the diameter of the lifter. Roller camshafts are not velocity limited, but the cam profile becomes concave as accelerations increase, making them expensive to grind. Most roller camshafts are made from hardened steel, although some are made from a specific grade of cast iron, or even powdered metal. The combination of a steel cam and a quality steel roller bearing follower allow roller cams to operate at higher stress level, typically 250,000 PSI (or 250 KSI) in production engines. Flat tappet camshafts are made from cast iron, and are limited to contact stress levels of about 140 KSI. __________________ 2SS/RS M6 CGM E-Force

08-11-2009, 11:42 PM	#38
Superman09 Account SNAFU Drives: 95 Monte Carlo Z34 79 Scout II Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 536 View My Garage	just an FYI on the 30K spring change, my boss (who was a former drag racer) says that changing springs every 30K was designed by companies to make money. But if you have to money to do it every 30K it wouldn't hurt but he let his run 45-50K and only replaced them because he was selling the car to a friend. Hope this helps a little bit __________________

04-22-2010, 12:48 PM	#43
LAWMAN Drives: 2010 cam.2ss/rs.iom,07'escalade esv Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pasc.Ms. Posts: 628	just a "fyi"...first off,i am a parts manager for a chevy/cad. dealer in pascagoula ms., i have been debateing for awhile now about changeing my cam,i do not race my ls3 at the strip,and i have not raced it yet,but.....when i do,i want the ponies there,i have cai,gmpp exaust,(about to change to kooks l/t)and a tune,but gm has a performance hot cam available that will give you alot of bang for your buck($)..the ls hot cam produces 50more hp and the trq.jumps from 424 to 475,which is a 12% gain by way of 0.525 inch lift on both intake and exaust along with 219-degree/228 degree duration,not a bad investment at under $500 for the cam that adds 50 horses, __________________ A9120159 1100:12/19/08 3800:06/19/09 6000:07/02/09

05-24-2010, 08:18 PM	#47
American Muscle Drives: #26 Tom Henry Racing 2010 1SS/LS3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New York, New York Posts: 278	don't know if this has been posted on here or not but I found this on lsxtv.com. pretty good write up. http://www.lsxtv.com/forum/camshaft-101-a-2656.html __________________ every man dies, not every man really lives

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07-30-2009, 03:43 PM	#27
RonC Drives: 2010 2SS - RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 78	How about posting up all the specs of the stock LS3 and L99 cams. Hopefully someone out there knows this. It would be good to see what lift, duration, LSA, overlap and installed ICL the factory cams we have are to start with. Knowing how and why the cam specs effect performance really helps to select the right cam for your car. A smaller cam that makes "more average power" will be more enjoyable to drive for most people.

07-30-2009, 07:01 PM	#30
usmcjlp Drives: 2SS/RS LS3 RJT Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 756	Thank you, I will post new thread.

08-02-2009, 06:53 PM	#31
tandtperformance Drives: 2010 Camaro 2011 PACE CAR 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: frederick Posts: 867	iam putting my new cam and spring kit in this weds ans then will have dyno sheet i will also be seling my kit if any int

08-06-2009, 07:08 AM	#33
GEN-IV HEMI Hunter Drives: 06 GTO / 79 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maine Posts: 469	Excellent post CamaroSpike23. Here is a little more detail on the differences between flat tappets and roller lifters. Everyone knows that roller camshafts give a more "aggressive" valve event. The aggressiveness is a function of lift, the rate of change of lift which is velocity, and the rate of change of velocity, which is acceleration. A roller cam can be ground with a more aggessive profile because it can tolerate higher stress levels and does not have the velocity limitation that a flat tappet cam has. Flat tappet cams can be ground with high accelerations, but are velocity limited due to the diameter of the lifter. Roller camshafts are not velocity limited, but the cam profile becomes concave as accelerations increase, making them expensive to grind. Most roller camshafts are made from hardened steel, although some are made from a specific grade of cast iron, or even powdered metal. The combination of a steel cam and a quality steel roller bearing follower allow roller cams to operate at higher stress level, typically 250,000 PSI (or 250 KSI) in production engines. Flat tappet camshafts are made from cast iron, and are limited to contact stress levels of about 140 KSI.

08-10-2009, 07:58 AM	#35
GEN-IV HEMI Hunter Drives: 06 GTO / 79 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maine Posts: 469	No problem, glad you liked it! You can see my deleted posts? Yikes, now you can see all of my spelling errors

08-10-2009, 11:18 AM	#37
GEN-IV HEMI Hunter Drives: 06 GTO / 79 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maine Posts: 469	You can undelete it, I was just trying to point out the roller cam flank concavity issue, but that graphic works too.

10-15-2009, 11:36 PM	#41
coronado89 Drives: 2010 SS F1-D procharger, Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brownsville, Tx Posts: 126	Is the LS3 cam a 3 bolt cam or a single bolt cam??

04-15-2010, 12:12 AM	#42
mberry023 Drives: black 2010 camaro ss Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: north hills ca, Posts: 7 View My Garage	Will a larger cam like th LG Motorsports G6x3 cam effect the knock sensors?

05-12-2010, 05:31 AM	#44
se7en Drives: 87 Pinto on 32's Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,494	Finally i have a better understanding of how a Cam works exactly! Thanks guys

05-24-2010, 12:31 AM	#46
tiresmokindad Drives: Gray Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 19	Nice information. I learned for your post. I would like to know how to about the single pattern? What is the difference with dual pattern?

08-19-2010, 09:07 PM	#49
spike347 Drives: 10 Camaro 2SS,RS,SIM, 6.2L , LS3 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: WEST OF DUE WEST,SC. Posts: 100	I was good with this until someone said he was going to drill a hole in the end of the cam with a hand drill???