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Old 03-17-2014, 10:46 AM   #1
Blackdevil77
 
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Legitimate Fix For Heat Soak

It's no secret that heat soak is a problem for our cars and is, what I believe, the biggest thing holding these cars back from being all they can be. It's also so secret that the real problem is the intercooler. Not so much the heat exchanger, a reservoir helps by increasing capacity, and chillers I'm sure work, but many including myself, don't want to mess with chillers or refrigerant. I'm just wondering, what way can heat soak be combated so that it doesn't heat soak much more rapidly then the GT500, or ZR1. Is there a way to upgrade the intercoolers? Is the only way around this to swap the blower?
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:14 PM   #2
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honeslty why would you even think about that with products like the chiller on the market or just he fact that unless you are doing sustained hight speed work just an upgraded HX will take car of it.

I think your buying into the hype too much.


now on the flip side if you want to raise the boost to 15spi and run lap after lap then yes I would would run a different blower.

even the GT500 guys that do a ton of roadcoarse work swap the 2.3L eatons.


for 99% of poeple $800 in mods will fix the heat soak issue for normal driving habbits. I mean you can spend 6k on a new blower if you want but that is not how I would address it on this car.
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hognutz View Post
honeslty why would you even think about that with products like the chiller on the market or just he fact that unless you are doing sustained hight speed work just an upgraded HX will take car of it.

I think your buying into the hype too much.


now on the flip side if you want to raise the boost to 15spi and run lap after lap then yes I would would run a different blower.

even the GT500 guys that do a ton of roadcoarse work swap the 2.3L eatons.


for 99% of poeple $800 in mods will fix the heat soak issue for normal driving habbits. I mean you can spend 6k on a new blower if you want but that is not how I would address it on this car.

I've read a lot of posts about how the ZL1 is more prone to heat soak than other supercharged cars. One of the posts I read directly compared it to the GT500 and they stated that the ZL1 heat soaked much quicker then the GT500 and the GT500 would leave the ZL1 like the ZL1 was "tied to a rock" due to the heat soak on the ZL1. For racing on a road course, would a bigger hx be enough? From what I was reading, it won't help enough and the biggest problem is the intercooler.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:18 PM   #4
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answer for this is active chiller "superchiller" . I, personally met with the guy who designs these for our cars. He impressed me as very honest, sincere, and intelligent.
He had a demo version, that he showed me, that was made from all high quality materials, it appeared to be very well thought out and professionally made. Mine is due sometime the end of the month. The designer (David) told me he is dealing with a full plate of personal issues right now, and that is why I will need to wait 2 weeks for him to put the kit together. (which is understandable). I was impressed that although I waived a few hundred dollars in front of him as a down payment, he told me, he didn't want anything from me upfront. I heard a different story from someone else, but I believe he treated me this way because I am dealing with a performance shop that is going to install the kit for me. So I am going to pay the shop and the shop will pay him. If this kit does work the way it is designed too, I am going to have a huge advantage when summer time gets here in FLorida. I look forward to posting the results soon. This is his website url.

http://www.activeinterchiller.com/5301.html

Last edited by Emvici; 03-17-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Emvici View Post
answer for this is active chiller "superchiller" . I, personally met with the guy who designs these for our cars. He impressed me as very honest, sincere, and intelligent.
He had a demo version, that he showed me, that was made from all high quality materials, it appeared to be very well thought out and professionally made. Mine is due sometime the end of the month. The designer (David) told me he is dealing with a full plate of personal issues right now, and that is why I will need to wait 2 weeks for him to put the kit together. (which is understandable). I was impressed that although I waived a few hundred dollars in front of him as a down payment, he told me, he didn't want anything from me upfront. I heard a different story from someone else, but I believe he treated me this way because I am dealing with a performance shop that is going to install the kit for me. So I am going to pay the shop and the shop will pay him. If this kit does work the way it is designed too, I am going to have a huge advantage when summer time gets here in FLorida. I look forward to posting the results soon. This is his website url.

http://www.activeinterchiller.com/5301.html
any pics of what this looks like?
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Emvici View Post
answer for this is active chiller "superchiller" . I, personally met with the guy who designs these for our cars. He impressed me as very honest, sincere, and intelligent.
He had a demo version, that he showed me, that was made from all high quality materials, it appeared to be very well thought out and professionally made. Mine is due sometime the end of the month. The designer (David) told me he is dealing with a full plate of personal issues right now, and that is why I will need to wait 2 weeks for him to put the kit together. (which is understandable). I was impressed that although I waived a few hundred dollars in front of him as a down payment, he told me, he didn't want anything from me upfront. I heard a different story from someone else, but I believe he treated me this way because I am dealing with a performance shop that is going to install the kit for me. So I am going to pay the shop and the shop will pay him. If this kit does work the way it is designed too, I am going to have a huge advantage when summer time gets here in FLorida. I look forward to posting the results soon. This is his website url.

http://www.activeinterchiller.com/5301.html
It's a very ingenious and creative idea, but after doing some reading on guys that have done superchillers, I'd rather not molest the A/C lines of the car.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:22 PM   #7
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You will not hack your car into pieces with this kit, he showed me the fittings for it, it was all high quality aluminum connections and lines. I can tell you that David had a partner a few years ago that has tried to steal the design from him, and that this person's name is Tracy. This person lists the same product that David showed me when I met him, on this website http://www.revxtreme.com/rx-super-chiller This is exactly what David showed me. From what I hear from David, You DO NOT want to buy this kit from Tracey, apparently tracy can put a pic together but not a kit. He will take the kit and assemble it like crap from what I have heard. So this is what the kit looks like, again I would not trust this tracy person, but I will post this for Pictures sake.

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Old 03-17-2014, 02:51 PM   #8
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Here's a thread I put together based on some research I did. I am setting my car up for road racing and cooling is one of the things I will be doing soon.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
It's a very ingenious and creative idea, but after doing some reading on guys that have done superchillers, I'd rather not molest the A/C lines of the car.
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You will not hack your car into pieces with this kit, he showed me the fittings for it, it was all high quality aluminum connections and lines. I can tell you that David had a partner a few years ago that has tried to steal the design from him, and that this person's name is Tracy. This person lists the same product that David showed me when I met him, on this website http://www.revxtreme.com/rx-super-chiller This is exactly what David showed me. From what I hear from David, You DO NOT want to buy this kit from Tracey, apparently tracy can put a pic together but not a kit. So this is what the kit looks like, again I would not trust this tracy person.
I had the "Superchiller" from Tracy Lewis @ RxPerformance on my old Camaro. The system cooled my intake temps to around ~65 degrees F, but my goodness the system had some serious issues and was the biggest pain in the a$$. It leaked freon! The fittings were pretty crappy, some were even cross threaded and loctite was used so it wouldn't come apart, I'll see if I can dig up some old pictures.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:28 PM   #9
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so has anyone done a dyno pull with this on consecutive pulls to really put a load on the engine? whats the power with it on and without it off like to see how much it makes with the a/c putting a load on the engine while its on.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:02 PM   #10
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I believe for what the superchiller will give back in consistent performance, will easily off-set any mild losses in Hp from using your a/c.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
Here's a thread I put together based on some research I did. I am setting my car up for road racing and cooling is one of the things I will be doing soon.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336563
So what did you end up doing to combat the heat soak? Did you get the Lingenfelter pump? I can't believe the reservoirs actually melt when the fluid flows into it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:11 PM   #12
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I've read a lot of posts about how the ZL1 is more prone to heat soak than other supercharged cars. One of the posts I read directly compared it to the GT500 and they stated that the ZL1 heat soaked much quicker then the GT500 and the GT500 would leave the ZL1 like the ZL1 was "tied to a rock" due to the heat soak on the ZL1. For racing on a road course, would a bigger hx be enough? From what I was reading, it won't help enough and the biggest problem is the intercooler.
In my opinion, heatsoak as they generally define it...where the heat from the motor rises up and warms the intake charge to the point it pulls timing and you lose power is not really a problem. I have upgraded my cooling with a new exchanger in the grill and a new reservoir from the start. With those upgrades I would not worry about the heat from the engine soaking into the supercharger for drag racing. For road racing and I'm turning my supercharger at around 22,000 peak rpm, the supercharger is the hottest item on the car. It gets so hot it will boil coolant passing through the brick and if you can't re-condense it to liquid you will melt anything plastic in the system and and boil out all of the water. I know this from experience. The brick intercooler in the supercharger is a weak link....at least in the stock blower...it is pretty small, if you increase the rate the water is pumped through it you get the same effect as a larger brick.... The way IAT2 temp pulls timing in the stock car it is a self limiting problem. The car pulls timing and reduces available power until the heat is reduced. If you have so much power that it cannot pull enough timing it will just turn the engine off and you will have to wait 5-10 minutes to restart it. I have been there also.
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so has anyone done a dyno pull with this on consecutive pulls to really put a load on the engine? whats the power with it on and without it off like to see how much it makes with the a/c putting a load on the engine while its on.
A dyno run lasts about 5 seconds. Even if you do 20 consecutive pulls, this will not equal putting the car on a road racing course and keeping the tachometer between 4 and 6000 rpm for 30 straight minutes. I have many hours of road racing in my car and have been on the track with the ambient at 106 degrees. Now let me tell you something I figured out running laps when it is over 100 degrees, the car turns off the a/c compressor whenever you exceed 3/4 throttle. I know this because when it is a 100 degrees out and I have a helmet on my head and long sleeve clothing I keep the a/c on. The way I drive, the throttle position sensor will turn off the compressor for about 80% of the track so basicially if you plan on using the stock a/c compressor to cool the supercharger or anything else while road racing forget it. At least not unless you do some modifications.

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I believe for what the superchiller will give back in consistent performance, will easily off-set any mild losses in Hp from using your a/c.
When you hit the throttle it turns the a/c off so you don't lose any power to the a/c compressor.....but you don't get any cooling when you actually stand on the gas. The chiller really is a good system for heat sink... will keeps intake temps down at the drag strip when idling or when your car is off.... but at sustained speed it will not work.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:15 PM   #13
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anyone have an idea/guess of what the water temperature leaving the intercooler would be approximately and what it might be returning back to the intercooler with a stock Hx on say a 90 degree day?.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:22 PM   #14
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Thought this was cool. Probably my next purchase.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:25 PM   #15
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Won't work with the standard CAI though. Only the New Era Race CAI.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
In my opinion, heatsoak as they generally define it...where the heat from the motor rises up and warms the intake charge to the point it pulls timing and you lose power is not really a problem. I have upgraded my cooling with a new exchanger in the grill and a new reservoir from the start. With those upgrades I would not worry about the heat from the engine soaking into the supercharger for drag racing. For road racing and I'm turning my supercharger at around 22,000 peak rpm, the supercharger is the hottest item on the car. It gets so hot it will boil coolant passing through the brick and if you can't re-condense it to liquid you will melt anything plastic in the system and and boil out all of the water. I know this from experience. The brick intercooler in the supercharger is a weak link....at least in the stock blower...it is pretty small, if you increase the rate the water is pumped through it you get the same effect as a larger brick.... The way IAT2 temp pulls timing in the stock car it is a self limiting problem. The car pulls timing and reduces available power until the heat is reduced. If you have so much power that it cannot pull enough timing it will just turn the engine off and you will have to wait 5-10 minutes to restart it. I have been there also.
That's exactly the problem I want to address. How did you go about fixing the problem? What is the best way to fix this problem? Is a HX and reservoir enough? And the reservoir will melt in these conditions according to what you say, which even further complicates things.

Seems like the best way to go about this is to simply swap the blower. I just don't understand why the blower is so expensive. Usually a supercharger kit for a N/A car is about 5-6 grand, and that includes lines, piping, HX, everything. Why does a simple blower replacement cost just as much as an entire supercharger kit??
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:32 PM   #17
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I can't believe the reservoirs actually melt when the fluid flows into it.
I wish I would have taken pics of the reservoir I threw away. Part of the problem was the way the coolant lines were routed but I don't think anyone thought about this stuff much until I really started pushing my car. If you route the line directly out of the supercharger (where it is possible to convert the coolant to steam) and then stuff it into the bottom of a plastic reservoir.... Once you get enough steam heat and pressure the reservoir puffs like a perfect balloon and then the filler neck melts in grooves to vent the steam..... I would recommend if you do any road racing, to put your reservoir after the heat exchanger in the grill where it will take cooler water instead of steam.....and then plumb it to the intake....and then if you decide to ice.... your ice water goes into the supercharger instead of the heat exchanger in the grill....as many standard systems do.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:40 PM   #18
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I wish I would have taken pics of the reservoir I threw away. Part of the problem was the way the coolant lines were routed but I don't think anyone thought about this stuff much until I really started pushing my car. If you route the line directly out of the supercharger (where it is possible to convert the coolant to steam) and then stuff it into the bottom of a plastic reservoir.... Once you get enough steam heat and pressure the reservoir puffs like a perfect balloon and then the filler neck melts in grooves to vent the steam..... I would recommend if you do any road racing, to put your reservoir after the heat exchanger in the grill where it will take cooler water instead of steam.....and then plumb it to the intake....and then if you decide to ice.... your ice water goes into the supercharger instead of the heat exchanger in the grill....as many standard systems do.
That's how I thought it was supposed to be set up. Hot fluid from the supercharger flows to the HX, get's cooled, flows to the reservoir, then from the reservoir back to the supercharger.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:49 PM   #19
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That's exactly the problem I want to address. How did you go about fixing the problem? What is the best way to fix this problem? Is a HX and reservoir enough? And the reservoir will melt in these conditions according to what you say, which even further complicates things.

Seems like the best way to go about this is to simply swap the blower. I just don't understand why the blower is so expensive. Usually a supercharger kit for a N/A car is about 5-6 grand, and that includes lines, piping, HX, everything. Why does a simple blower replacement cost just as much as an entire supercharger kit??
I think a good pump, reservoir and heat exchanger will hold everything you can throw at it until about 675 whp which is quite a lot on the stock blower. Power and heat go hand in hand. If you want to go above 675 whp and push it non-stop road racing then at this point I'm going to say you need a bigger blower. And I feel like an idiot because 6 months after I bought my LS9 set-up, a new blower comes out that blows away every thing else in terms of cooling efficiency and airflow design.... the new Heartbeat LSA is no joke. It looks like it has about 4x's the intercooler capacity of the LSA.

Here is my reservoir, it holds over 3 gallons in the trunk and sits right behind the battery.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:06 PM   #20
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the new Heartbeat LSA is no joke. It looks like it has about 4x's the intercooler capacity of the LSA.
I want to hear more about this new Heartbeat blower. I'm anxiously waiting more results from people that are utilizing it. If it does really well at fighting off heat soak and can pound out 14 pounds of boost without even remotely breaking a sweat, It would be worth it to me. Think about it this way, with the deals on ZL1's right now, you can get a brand new ZL1, upgrade the blower to the heartbeat unit, and STILL spend thousands less than the GT500. You'd still have money left over for intake, long tubes, tune etc and even then, still not be in for as much as the Shelby. Not because the Shelby is so enormously expensive, it just has a famous dead guys name on it. Dealers aren't going much below MSRP AT ALL, which is already more then the ZL1.

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Old 03-17-2014, 08:29 PM   #21
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I want to hear more about this new Heartbeat blower. I'm anxiously waiting more results from people that are utilizing it. If it does really well at fighting off heat soak and can pound of 14 pounds of boost without even remotely breaking a sweat, It would be worth it to me. Think about it this way, with the deals on ZL1's right now, you can get a brand new ZL1, upgrade the blower to the heartbeat unit, and STILL spend thousands less than the GT500. You'd still have money left over for intake, long tubes, tune etc and even then, still not be in for as much as the Shelby. Not because the Shelby is so enormously expensive, it just has a famous dead guys name on it. Dealers aren't going much below MSRP AT ALL, which is already more then the ZL1.
It is brand new so not very many out there yet. But it sure looks to me like you could swap that thing on a ZL1 with a little more pulley and spank the mustangs all day long.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:03 PM   #22
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I posted this before in the superchiller thread here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=196968&page=5

why not use an electric A/C compressor so it can run at all times like the toyota prius uses

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Old 03-18-2014, 01:01 AM   #23
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I had one of Dave's 1st prototype SuperChiller from Tracy@RX on my 10 SS & had no issues with it cause it is the original one that no AC line cutting needed, Boost was 11psi & drops to 6psi while tunning it on the Dyno & realiesed it was due to heat soak so we added the SuperChiller & never had any issue with heat soak .
On my 12 ZL1 we added the SuperChiller from Tracy@RX & had LMR do the installation, it worked fine at 1st but started giving headach leaking & had to go through 3 AC compressurs due to that & now i am getting the Original one from Dave soon & i am sure that it will work flowlessly like the 1st one.


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Old 03-18-2014, 08:31 AM   #24
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Agree with Jessrayo - if superchiller isnt a route you want to pursue, the limiting factor is the intercooler within the supercharger. Much smaller than LS9 (twin brick) or GT500. The new heartbeat looks like it could be a good solution.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:25 AM   #25
Emvici
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1 White Convertible
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St Pete Fl
Posts: 435
can the intercooler be swapped out for the heartbeat one? or does the whole Supercharger need to be replaced?.
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