Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Gen5DIY
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-17-2014, 06:25 PM   #15
Blown355
 
Blown355's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 735
Won't work with the standard CAI though. Only the New Era Race CAI.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2012 ZL1
10 spoke
M6
ECF
Blown355 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #16
Blackdevil77

 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
In my opinion, heatsoak as they generally define it...where the heat from the motor rises up and warms the intake charge to the point it pulls timing and you lose power is not really a problem. I have upgraded my cooling with a new exchanger in the grill and a new reservoir from the start. With those upgrades I would not worry about the heat from the engine soaking into the supercharger for drag racing. For road racing and I'm turning my supercharger at around 22,000 peak rpm, the supercharger is the hottest item on the car. It gets so hot it will boil coolant passing through the brick and if you can't re-condense it to liquid you will melt anything plastic in the system and and boil out all of the water. I know this from experience. The brick intercooler in the supercharger is a weak link....at least in the stock blower...it is pretty small, if you increase the rate the water is pumped through it you get the same effect as a larger brick.... The way IAT2 temp pulls timing in the stock car it is a self limiting problem. The car pulls timing and reduces available power until the heat is reduced. If you have so much power that it cannot pull enough timing it will just turn the engine off and you will have to wait 5-10 minutes to restart it. I have been there also.
That's exactly the problem I want to address. How did you go about fixing the problem? What is the best way to fix this problem? Is a HX and reservoir enough? And the reservoir will melt in these conditions according to what you say, which even further complicates things.

Seems like the best way to go about this is to simply swap the blower. I just don't understand why the blower is so expensive. Usually a supercharger kit for a N/A car is about 5-6 grand, and that includes lines, piping, HX, everything. Why does a simple blower replacement cost just as much as an entire supercharger kit??
Blackdevil77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:32 PM   #17
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I can't believe the reservoirs actually melt when the fluid flows into it.
I wish I would have taken pics of the reservoir I threw away. Part of the problem was the way the coolant lines were routed but I don't think anyone thought about this stuff much until I really started pushing my car. If you route the line directly out of the supercharger (where it is possible to convert the coolant to steam) and then stuff it into the bottom of a plastic reservoir.... Once you get enough steam heat and pressure the reservoir puffs like a perfect balloon and then the filler neck melts in grooves to vent the steam..... I would recommend if you do any road racing, to put your reservoir after the heat exchanger in the grill where it will take cooler water instead of steam.....and then plumb it to the intake....and then if you decide to ice.... your ice water goes into the supercharger instead of the heat exchanger in the grill....as many standard systems do.
__________________
2016 SS -AGP twin Borg Warner 7163 EFR's, Fuel system upgrades,Castoril SRF. 653whp/692 tq

2013 ZL1 -ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar...etc. rwhp TBD... 200.4mph, best Texas mile to date.
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:40 PM   #18
Blackdevil77

 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
I wish I would have taken pics of the reservoir I threw away. Part of the problem was the way the coolant lines were routed but I don't think anyone thought about this stuff much until I really started pushing my car. If you route the line directly out of the supercharger (where it is possible to convert the coolant to steam) and then stuff it into the bottom of a plastic reservoir.... Once you get enough steam heat and pressure the reservoir puffs like a perfect balloon and then the filler neck melts in grooves to vent the steam..... I would recommend if you do any road racing, to put your reservoir after the heat exchanger in the grill where it will take cooler water instead of steam.....and then plumb it to the intake....and then if you decide to ice.... your ice water goes into the supercharger instead of the heat exchanger in the grill....as many standard systems do.
That's how I thought it was supposed to be set up. Hot fluid from the supercharger flows to the HX, get's cooled, flows to the reservoir, then from the reservoir back to the supercharger.
Blackdevil77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:49 PM   #19
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
That's exactly the problem I want to address. How did you go about fixing the problem? What is the best way to fix this problem? Is a HX and reservoir enough? And the reservoir will melt in these conditions according to what you say, which even further complicates things.

Seems like the best way to go about this is to simply swap the blower. I just don't understand why the blower is so expensive. Usually a supercharger kit for a N/A car is about 5-6 grand, and that includes lines, piping, HX, everything. Why does a simple blower replacement cost just as much as an entire supercharger kit??
I think a good pump, reservoir and heat exchanger will hold everything you can throw at it until about 675 whp which is quite a lot on the stock blower. Power and heat go hand in hand. If you want to go above 675 whp and push it non-stop road racing then at this point I'm going to say you need a bigger blower. And I feel like an idiot because 6 months after I bought my LS9 set-up, a new blower comes out that blows away every thing else in terms of cooling efficiency and airflow design.... the new Heartbeat LSA is no joke. It looks like it has about 4x's the intercooler capacity of the LSA.

Here is my reservoir, it holds over 3 gallons in the trunk and sits right behind the battery.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2016 SS -AGP twin Borg Warner 7163 EFR's, Fuel system upgrades,Castoril SRF. 653whp/692 tq

2013 ZL1 -ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar...etc. rwhp TBD... 200.4mph, best Texas mile to date.
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:06 PM   #20
Blackdevil77

 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
the new Heartbeat LSA is no joke. It looks like it has about 4x's the intercooler capacity of the LSA.
I want to hear more about this new Heartbeat blower. I'm anxiously waiting more results from people that are utilizing it. If it does really well at fighting off heat soak and can pound out 14 pounds of boost without even remotely breaking a sweat, It would be worth it to me. Think about it this way, with the deals on ZL1's right now, you can get a brand new ZL1, upgrade the blower to the heartbeat unit, and STILL spend thousands less than the GT500. You'd still have money left over for intake, long tubes, tune etc and even then, still not be in for as much as the Shelby. Not because the Shelby is so enormously expensive, it just has a famous dead guys name on it. Dealers aren't going much below MSRP AT ALL, which is already more then the ZL1.

Last edited by Blackdevil77; 03-18-2014 at 05:26 AM.
Blackdevil77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 08:29 PM   #21
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I want to hear more about this new Heartbeat blower. I'm anxiously waiting more results from people that are utilizing it. If it does really well at fighting off heat soak and can pound of 14 pounds of boost without even remotely breaking a sweat, It would be worth it to me. Think about it this way, with the deals on ZL1's right now, you can get a brand new ZL1, upgrade the blower to the heartbeat unit, and STILL spend thousands less than the GT500. You'd still have money left over for intake, long tubes, tune etc and even then, still not be in for as much as the Shelby. Not because the Shelby is so enormously expensive, it just has a famous dead guys name on it. Dealers aren't going much below MSRP AT ALL, which is already more then the ZL1.
It is brand new so not very many out there yet. But it sure looks to me like you could swap that thing on a ZL1 with a little more pulley and spank the mustangs all day long.
__________________
2016 SS -AGP twin Borg Warner 7163 EFR's, Fuel system upgrades,Castoril SRF. 653whp/692 tq

2013 ZL1 -ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar...etc. rwhp TBD... 200.4mph, best Texas mile to date.
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 09:03 PM   #22
GenF-GTS

 
GenF-GTS's Avatar
 
Drives: none
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 764
I posted this before in the superchiller thread here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=196968&page=5

why not use an electric A/C compressor so it can run at all times like the toyota prius uses

__________________

Owner of Forced Induction Interchillers
http://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers
2014 HSV GenF-GTS
10.373 @135.70mph 29/May/2016
V-Box Results 0-60mph in 2.76sec
Fastest 6.2L LSA VF GTS in Australia - on pump fuel, stock trans, stock diff, stock bottom end, boost only + our Interchiller.
GenF-GTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 01:01 AM   #23
alssiri

 
alssiri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 ZL1 A6
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 1,125
I had one of Dave's 1st prototype SuperChiller from Tracy@RX on my 10 SS & had no issues with it cause it is the original one that no AC line cutting needed, Boost was 11psi & drops to 6psi while tunning it on the Dyno & realiesed it was due to heat soak so we added the SuperChiller & never had any issue with heat soak .
On my 12 ZL1 we added the SuperChiller from Tracy@RX & had LMR do the installation, it worked fine at 1st but started giving headach leaking & had to go through 3 AC compressurs due to that & now i am getting the Original one from Dave soon & i am sure that it will work flowlessly like the 1st one.


Ahmad
__________________
2012 ZL1 A6
Forged 376 CI, LSA HeartBeat, Mast Medium Bore Heads & JDP ZLR Cam, ARH LT , MagnaFlow Resonated X Pipe Muffler, SW Retro Chambered + BlackHeart AxelBack, ADM 102mm Snout, JLT intake, NW 102mm TB, ID850, AGP Dual Fuel Pump, MSD Wire's, Denso Plugs, Moroso CC.
D3 Reservoir, Alky Control, FIICHILLER.
2015 Rear Fascia Conversion, Z/28 Spoiler & Diffuser , ACS Quarter Ports, ShowStopper's Side Marker's, LightWurkz Halo's.
Sosche With KenWood, SLP pod with PLX guage, DashLogic .
alssiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 08:31 AM   #24
Drew P
 
Drew P's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro ZL1
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 233
Agree with Jessrayo - if superchiller isnt a route you want to pursue, the limiting factor is the intercooler within the supercharger. Much smaller than LS9 (twin brick) or GT500. The new heartbeat looks like it could be a good solution.
__________________
2012 A6 Coupe 630RWHP 10.93@125
Mods: ID850 Injectors; D3PE HX, Reservoir & Atmospheric Catch-Can; LPE 2.55 Upper & 9.1 Lower Pulleys w/ ATI Damper; LPE Idler Pulley Relocation Bracket; "Green" Serp. Belt; Cat delete;ADM Exhaust Override; Magnaflow X-Pipe Muffler (in addition to stock mufflers); Cold Air Inductions CAI; 160 thermostat; LS9 Isolator; Port/polish snout and intake runners; LPE GT9 camshaft with dual springs and titanium retainers; Kenne Bell BAP, Install and Engine Tune by Serious Hp; Fab work by D3 Performance Engineering; Trans Tune by Keith; Coming Soon: Flex Fuel Conversion.
Drew P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 10:25 AM   #25
Emvici
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1 White Convertible
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St Pete Fl
Posts: 682
can the intercooler be swapped out for the heartbeat one? or does the whole Supercharger need to be replaced?.
Emvici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 11:15 AM   #26
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emvici View Post
can the intercooler be swapped out for the heartbeat one? or does the whole Supercharger need to be replaced?.
You have to do the whole supercharger.
__________________
2016 SS -AGP twin Borg Warner 7163 EFR's, Fuel system upgrades,Castoril SRF. 653whp/692 tq

2013 ZL1 -ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar...etc. rwhp TBD... 200.4mph, best Texas mile to date.
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 03:41 PM   #27
MrDew
 
MrDew's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 ZL1 #165
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Switzerland (no longer Houston, TX) :-(
Posts: 479
how come noone has come up with another lid and brick design for the ZL1? Is the market just not big enough or is it just cheaper to replace the whole blower rather than the bottleneck of the TV1900?
MrDew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 04:06 PM   #28
HDRDTD


 
Drives: 2013 Triple Black ZL1 Vert M6 ECF
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trenton, Michigan
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDew View Post
how come noone has come up with another lid and brick design for the ZL1? Is the market just not big enough or is it just cheaper to replace the whole blower rather than the bottleneck of the TV1900?
Clearance issues perhaps???
HDRDTD is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.