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Old 04-04-2014, 11:19 AM   #18
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I can't wait to see someone get one of these things over the 600hp mark. That thing will be smoking damn near everything then. It would be cool if GM offered a hopped up version.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:15 PM   #19
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I have both cars on order, and have owned both the 996 and 997 GT3s, and tracked both.

It's amazing what the Z/28 has done. It's like Team Camaro dropped an atom bomb. But, the badassTrofeos explain the corner grip to a large extent, as they offer near Hoosier levels of stick. They really aren't in any fashion street tires and have all the drawbacks of aggressive R comps on the street. Trofeos on the GT3 and we'll see a well driven GT3 walk the Z/28.

I have no axe to grind as I'm enamored with both cars.

Even though the Z's shoes have a lot to do with the published laptimes, and while one can simply throw trofeos on the GT3 (they offer sizing close enough), the one thing the Z has going for it in this regard, is that it was engineered from the factory for this rubber. *That* is a huge benefit as those fancy dampers were tuned for trofeos.

----------------------

OTOH, one thing that will suck super bad with the Z, is that the trofeos will be terrible on the street. Rain or cool days. Take your pick, you'll be hating life. I plan on a set of street tires/wheels to use around town and swap to Trofeos for track use. Or Hoosiers if I'm feeling giddy.

Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:19 PM   #20
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...Figure 2000 miles for road use or 70 track laps when driven fast and well. If you drive with a lot of slip angle, halve that...
My last car was similar, spec-wise, to the Z/28. About the same weight and power, with slightly less tire width but no CCBs. The tires were 60-wear rated and very good. The first 300 miles of track usage and you felt Superman. After that the car felt OK, but it was clear that you'd started to lose your cape. The last 100 miles the car started to feel pretty greasy as the grip went down. After 550 miles of track usage there was a slight show-through on the shoulder of the tire, only about half-way around, like someone drew a very thin, faint white line.

Jackie Stewart was my hero as a kid, so I try very hard to be smooth. The problem is, these cars are such a blast to drive that you have to control your inner hoonigan...

Per my other thread HERE , I'm also looking to have two sets of wheels -- one track set and one fairly racy street set -- for transit and to use on track if things are damp. Zfatuated, do I hear you saying you're considering a third set by adding Hoosiers to your quiver?!?
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:20 PM   #21
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Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
So it appears you are smarter than the engineers at GM.. If it were as simple as just slapping these tires on the ZL1 to make a faster car don't you think they would have just done that? Why waste millions engineering this car to be a beast on the track when tires are the only thing that it takes to put down these times? Please explain to me how GM could be this stupid. Obviously better tires will help any car, but there is way more to it than that. No need to go into all of the unique equipment on the Z28 as its posted in a lot of other threads, but I think these advancements may be helping the Z28 around the track as well lol.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:34 PM   #22
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Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
Huh?

Go ahead, attack away. I'm interested in hearing anything I stated in my post with which you can disagree using a cogent argument.

As for your Zl1 v. Z/28 argument, disagree. Wheels are a small part of the Z/28's laptimes IMO. I make this statement based on having run light and heavy wheels on much lower hp, much lower weight cars. The Z28 runs like a scalded cat relative to teh Zl1 for other reasons: tire, brakes, trick suspension, lowered center of gravity, n/a non-heat soaking engine with upgraded cooling capacity, aero, and lower weight.

But if you added the Z/28's wheels, tires, suspension, aero, and removed a few hundred pounds you'd be most of the way there. But at that point. . . it makes sense to sell the Zl1 and buy a Z/28.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:49 PM   #23
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...The Z28 runs like a scalded cat relative to teh Zl1 for other reasons: tire, brakes, trick suspension, lowered center of gravity, n/a non-heat soaking engine with upgraded cooling capacity, aero, and lower weight...
I agree with this and believe the Z/28 is as good as it is because of the entire package. Look at the lengths the engineers went to; anything that got them a tenth was under consideration. "Flying Car" logic, DSSV shocks, Carbon Ceramic Brakes, the aero package -- and the tires.

I do agree the Trofeo R's are good tires. I'll be interested to compare lap times with and without them. Uh, I guess I mean with them and with another set of wheels/tires...
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:09 PM   #24
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Zfatuated, do I hear you saying you're considering a third set by adding Hoosiers to your quiver?!?
If the car will fit into my existing trailer, I do plan to try and fit a set of R6 315/30-19. Don't know if they will go in there without interference, if they don't fit, I have to use 295/30-19. Buy an extra set of wheels and mount the R6's to them.

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This is really common knowledge to anyone that has the slightest clue, but unfortunately I think most people rely too heavily on GM marketing or magazine articles, without really understanding the fundamental elements that contribute to handling.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:31 PM   #25
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Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.

at 400+lbs more weight - the ZL1 needs more than a good set of tires

it needs a diet
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:43 PM   #26
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I'm pretty sure I can make up half a second worth of time for less than $10,000 worth of mods to a Z/28 and still have enough left over from the $56,000 difference between these two cars to buy several sets of tires and add some interior touches to make the car more livable on the way home... lol

I agree that the tires are really helping this car do what it does... but isn't that the point? to design and build a car to go fast based on what you KNOW will make it go fast? I'd have to say this is proof that the Z/28 team knocked this one right out of the ballpark in that respect.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:50 PM   #27
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at 400+lbs more weight - the ZL1 needs more than a good set of tires

it needs a diet


the real question is: with a $10,000-17,000 difference between the ZL1 and Z/28, can you buy enough mods to make the ZL1 outrun the Z/28?

I believe you can... $2000 for tires, $2000 in exhaust and $4000 in engine upgrades and you're going to be staring pretty hard at the GT3 and Z/28's taillights, if not looking at their headlights in the rear view mirror... factor in about $5000 in brake upgrades and you'll be doing even better than that.


the ZL1 is no slouch... it's a competent machine with a boatload of power... you might be surprised by what slapping a set of super sticky tires can do for a car that is well driven.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:17 PM   #28
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For my usage scenario, the ZL1 is simply not an option. I don't beleive it can tolerate hard track usage in 90-to-100+ degree ambient temps. I also prefer the lighter weight and sound of the Z/28, along with its more track-centric focus. I look forward to seeing someone modify the ZL1 and then accurately comparing it to the Z/28. Until then, we don't know how successful those mods might be...
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:02 PM   #29
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I'm pretty sure I can make up half a second worth of time for less than $10,000 worth of mods to a Z/28 and still have enough left over from the $56,000 difference between these two cars to buy several sets of tires and add some interior touches to make the car more livable on the way home... lol

I agree that the tires are really helping this car do what it does... but isn't that the point? to design and build a car to go fast based on what you KNOW will make it go fast? I'd have to say this is proof that the Z/28 team knocked this one right out of the ballpark in that respect.

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the real question is: with a $10,000-17,000 difference between the ZL1 and Z/28, can you buy enough mods to make the ZL1 outrun the Z/28?

I believe you can... $2000 for tires, $2000 in exhaust and $4000 in engine upgrades and you're going to be staring pretty hard at the GT3 and Z/28's taillights, if not looking at their headlights in the rear view mirror... factor in about $5000 in brake upgrades and you'll be doing even better than that.


the ZL1 is no slouch... it's a competent machine with a boatload of power... you might be surprised by what slapping a set of super sticky tires can do for a car that is well driven.
I am old school hot rodder! I can't leave anything alone (well been pretty good to my wife's car)

I get what you are saying. You are the type of guy that probably lights the warranty on fire. I am getting this car to do a certain thing (drag, rod race, auto x, hpde, car show etc).

700whp out of an LSA is pretty much a phone call away and some dyno time.

Tires and wheels and brakes. Then the time spent to dial it all in.

There was that Pedders Camaro at 1 lap. DSE has built a Camaro. How would those hold up to the Z/28?

It all depends on what you want. If you have the 75k sitting around and want to be racing come May. Buy the Z/28.

If you would rather build something at your own pace and learn the car inside and out - Buy an SS or 1LE or ZL1.

I think GM originally thought it was going to use the Z/28 to be the GT500 fighter. Then set its eyes on bigger fish and decided to green light an all out car to hunt them down.

Seeing how many Porsche guys pop up here - id say they succeeded
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:33 PM   #30
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Awesome article. Z/28 was made for a purpose and its a "relative" bargain for the results. Unfortunately this "relative" would be about as far away as me being related to Kim Jong Un
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:27 PM   #31
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IMO you're either a ZL1 guy (gal) or a Z/28 guy (gal). Everyone has their own reasons and you won't convince them otherwise.

Live and let live.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SilverTurtle View Post
the real question is: with a $10,000-17,000 difference between the ZL1 and Z/28, can you buy enough mods to make the ZL1 outrun the Z/28?

I believe you can... $2000 for tires, $2000 in exhaust and $4000 in engine upgrades and you're going to be staring pretty hard at the GT3 and Z/28's taillights, if not looking at their headlights in the rear view mirror... factor in about $5000 in brake upgrades and you'll be doing even better than that.


the ZL1 is no slouch... it's a competent machine with a boatload of power... you might be surprised by what slapping a set of super sticky tires can do for a car that is well driven.
That is the thing, no one is claiming that the ZL1 Camaro is a slow car or a car that can not perform. In fact if I were looking at a Z/28 and a ZL1 and wanted a good daily driver over all then the ZL1 Camaro will win hands down.

With that being said spending $17,000 on a ZL1 Camaro may net you a faster car and then it may not depends on what you spend it on and what track you are on.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:39 PM   #33
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and yes, I am the kind of guy that basically lights the factory warranty on fire... because if I want a modded car, I will just make a modded car and deal with the consequences.

for me, I think I would find it enjoyable to build up a ZL1 to do track duties... bigger intercooler, better exhaust and porting and polishing on those heads, combined with upgrading the brakes, tires and maybe some lighter rims, I think I would be around $10,000 in mods... and have a car that could not only keep up with the Z/28 (keep in mind that I'm an ex SCCA competition license carrying driver) but also keep up with the Porsches and other exotics

and all in a vehicle that I could dial in the magnetic ride mode to soft and comfortable and drive home in my auto equipped ZL1 while making funny faces at my daughter in the rear view mirror as she giggles in the back seat


but I will agree that the Z/28 is a better starting point if you're looking for a real track car... because the things they put into the Z/28 from the factory... they just haven't done anything like that since the original RPO cars from the '60s and '70s.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:53 AM   #34
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I think it is funny that the Camaro is being beaten on the straights.... if someone told you that it will win in the corners 10 years ago compared to cars like the Porsche 911 what would you have said?.
Took the words right out of my mouth.Wow. Who would have thunk it
Go further back to the early 80's when the Z28 had 145 hp and no handling whatsoever. Owning a Z28 PaceCar thought I was a cool kid. lol but used to drool like crazy over the Porsches and other Exotics. FF Still love the Porsche but drooling a bit more over the Z28. Man things have come along way.
After blowing the engine just sold supercharger and they picked up the car this morning. Building a forged NA engine for road course and street use. With all the money tied up in this thing could have had a Z28 and more tires. lol It's never going to be a Z28 but hopefully will sneak up on a few people out there
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