Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
TireRack
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2014, 01:15 AM   #15
doc7000
 
Drives: 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lomita,CA
Posts: 552
Really just give the Z/28 a short run with a really fast shifting transmission and I think it would be able to take this GT3.

I think it is funny that the Camaro is being beaten on the straights.... if someone told you that it will win in the corners 10 years ago compared to cars like the Porsche 911 what would you have said?.

Last edited by doc7000; 04-04-2014 at 01:27 AM.
doc7000 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 09:51 AM   #16
frayed
 
Drives: 964 Turbo, 991 GT3 and Z/28 ordered
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 72
I have both cars on order, and have owned both the 996 and 997 GT3s, and tracked both.

It's amazing what the Z/28 has done. It's like Team Camaro dropped an atom bomb. But, the badassTrofeos explain the corner grip to a large extent, as they offer near Hoosier levels of stick. They really aren't in any fashion street tires and have all the drawbacks of aggressive R comps on the street. Trofeos on the GT3 and we'll see a well driven GT3 walk the Z/28.

I have no axe to grind as I'm enamored with both cars.

Even though the Z's shoes have a lot to do with the published laptimes, and while one can simply throw trofeos on the GT3 (they offer sizing close enough), the one thing the Z has going for it in this regard, is that it was engineered from the factory for this rubber. *That* is a huge benefit as those fancy dampers were tuned for trofeos.

----------------------

OTOH, one thing that will suck super bad with the Z, is that the trofeos will be terrible on the street. Rain or cool days. Take your pick, you'll be hating life. I plan on a set of street tires/wheels to use around town and swap to Trofeos for track use. Or Hoosiers if I'm feeling giddy.
frayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #17
Zfatuated

 
Zfatuated's Avatar
 
Drives: BAC Mono
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Reno
Posts: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
Thanks for posting this.

The one thing that would kill me with that car are the tires, and I can't wait to hear how many miles people get out of them.

In 2 years & 38K miles, I'm getting ready for my 6th set of tires (no burnouts, just a LOT of canyon driving) and they've been 200 to 300 tread wear...
"Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?" applies in this situation as it ALWAYS does.

The tires are the cost of admission to sit at the fast-laptime table. Pay up or eat elsewhere, it shouldn't be hard to understand.

Figure 2000 miles for road use or 70 track laps when driven fast and well. If you drive with a lot of slip angle, halve that. Folks who think smoky burnouts are cool could easily see $1200 go up in smoke in a few minutes.

Rinse, repeat, enjoy.
__________________
2014 Z/28, White
"I wasn't asked to make it cheap...I was asked to make it FAST!" Mark Stielow, the new Z/28.

Zfatuated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 10:19 AM   #18
motorhead


 
motorhead's Avatar
 
Drives: Stormtrooper
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bartertown
Posts: 9,712
I can't wait to see someone get one of these things over the 600hp mark. That thing will be smoking damn near everything then. It would be cool if GM offered a hopped up version.
motorhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #19
Novie LE
 
Drives: 2014 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Sometimes here, sometimes there
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by frayed View Post
I have both cars on order, and have owned both the 996 and 997 GT3s, and tracked both.

It's amazing what the Z/28 has done. It's like Team Camaro dropped an atom bomb. But, the badassTrofeos explain the corner grip to a large extent, as they offer near Hoosier levels of stick. They really aren't in any fashion street tires and have all the drawbacks of aggressive R comps on the street. Trofeos on the GT3 and we'll see a well driven GT3 walk the Z/28.

I have no axe to grind as I'm enamored with both cars.

Even though the Z's shoes have a lot to do with the published laptimes, and while one can simply throw trofeos on the GT3 (they offer sizing close enough), the one thing the Z has going for it in this regard, is that it was engineered from the factory for this rubber. *That* is a huge benefit as those fancy dampers were tuned for trofeos.

----------------------

OTOH, one thing that will suck super bad with the Z, is that the trofeos will be terrible on the street. Rain or cool days. Take your pick, you'll be hating life. I plan on a set of street tires/wheels to use around town and swap to Trofeos for track use. Or Hoosiers if I'm feeling giddy.

Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
__________________
2014 Red Hot 1LE
Novie LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 11:19 AM   #20
brt3
Runs with scissors...
 
brt3's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 Z/28s SIM/SW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
...Figure 2000 miles for road use or 70 track laps when driven fast and well. If you drive with a lot of slip angle, halve that...
My last car was similar, spec-wise, to the Z/28. About the same weight and power, with slightly less tire width but no CCBs. The tires were 60-wear rated and very good. The first 300 miles of track usage and you felt Superman. After that the car felt OK, but it was clear that you'd started to lose your cape. The last 100 miles the car started to feel pretty greasy as the grip went down. After 550 miles of track usage there was a slight show-through on the shoulder of the tire, only about half-way around, like someone drew a very thin, faint white line.

Jackie Stewart was my hero as a kid, so I try very hard to be smooth. The problem is, these cars are such a blast to drive that you have to control your inner hoonigan...

Per my other thread HERE , I'm also looking to have two sets of wheels -- one track set and one fairly racy street set -- for transit and to use on track if things are damp. Zfatuated, do I hear you saying you're considering a third set by adding Hoosiers to your quiver?!?
__________________
brt3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #21
Maro99

 
Maro99's Avatar
 
Drives: Heel toe express..
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Charleston, S.C
Posts: 1,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novie LE View Post
Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
So it appears you are smarter than the engineers at GM.. If it were as simple as just slapping these tires on the ZL1 to make a faster car don't you think they would have just done that? Why waste millions engineering this car to be a beast on the track when tires are the only thing that it takes to put down these times? Please explain to me how GM could be this stupid. Obviously better tires will help any car, but there is way more to it than that. No need to go into all of the unique equipment on the Z28 as its posted in a lot of other threads, but I think these advancements may be helping the Z28 around the track as well lol.
__________________
Camaro SOLD :(

Last edited by Maro99; 04-04-2014 at 11:44 AM.
Maro99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 11:34 AM   #22
frayed
 
Drives: 964 Turbo, 991 GT3 and Z/28 ordered
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novie LE View Post
Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.
Huh?

Go ahead, attack away. I'm interested in hearing anything I stated in my post with which you can disagree using a cogent argument.

As for your Zl1 v. Z/28 argument, disagree. Wheels are a small part of the Z/28's laptimes IMO. I make this statement based on having run light and heavy wheels on much lower hp, much lower weight cars. The Z28 runs like a scalded cat relative to teh Zl1 for other reasons: tire, brakes, trick suspension, lowered center of gravity, n/a non-heat soaking engine with upgraded cooling capacity, aero, and lower weight.

But if you added the Z/28's wheels, tires, suspension, aero, and removed a few hundred pounds you'd be most of the way there. But at that point. . . it makes sense to sell the Zl1 and buy a Z/28.
frayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 11:49 AM   #23
brt3
Runs with scissors...
 
brt3's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 Z/28s SIM/SW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by frayed View Post
...The Z28 runs like a scalded cat relative to teh Zl1 for other reasons: tire, brakes, trick suspension, lowered center of gravity, n/a non-heat soaking engine with upgraded cooling capacity, aero, and lower weight...
I agree with this and believe the Z/28 is as good as it is because of the entire package. Look at the lengths the engineers went to; anything that got them a tenth was under consideration. "Flying Car" logic, DSSV shocks, Carbon Ceramic Brakes, the aero package -- and the tires.

I do agree the Trofeo R's are good tires. I'll be interested to compare lap times with and without them. Uh, I guess I mean with them and with another set of wheels/tires...
__________________

Last edited by brt3; 04-04-2014 at 12:24 PM.
brt3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 12:09 PM   #24
Zfatuated

 
Zfatuated's Avatar
 
Drives: BAC Mono
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Reno
Posts: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by brt3 View Post
Zfatuated, do I hear you saying you're considering a third set by adding Hoosiers to your quiver?!?
If the car will fit into my existing trailer, I do plan to try and fit a set of R6 315/30-19. Don't know if they will go in there without interference, if they don't fit, I have to use 295/30-19. Buy an extra set of wheels and mount the R6's to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
This is really common knowledge to anyone that has the slightest clue, but unfortunately I think most people rely too heavily on GM marketing or magazine articles, without really understanding the fundamental elements that contribute to handling.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2014 Z/28, White
"I wasn't asked to make it cheap...I was asked to make it FAST!" Mark Stielow, the new Z/28.

Zfatuated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #25
Col. Brain
 
Drives: 2012 Ram 1980 Malibu
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Otherside of the screen
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novie LE View Post
Slow down here before you get attacked. I have been saying that most of the performance out of this thing is due to the wheels and tires and that a zl1 will be just as quick with the same set up.

at 400+lbs more weight - the ZL1 needs more than a good set of tires

it needs a diet
Col. Brain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 12:43 PM   #26
SilverTurtle
Reality Check Specialist
 
SilverTurtle's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 Z28, 2012 45th SS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,729
Send a message via AIM to SilverTurtle Send a message via Yahoo to SilverTurtle
I'm pretty sure I can make up half a second worth of time for less than $10,000 worth of mods to a Z/28 and still have enough left over from the $56,000 difference between these two cars to buy several sets of tires and add some interior touches to make the car more livable on the way home... lol

I agree that the tires are really helping this car do what it does... but isn't that the point? to design and build a car to go fast based on what you KNOW will make it go fast? I'd have to say this is proof that the Z/28 team knocked this one right out of the ballpark in that respect.
__________________
got tequila?
SilverTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 12:50 PM   #27
SilverTurtle
Reality Check Specialist
 
SilverTurtle's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 Z28, 2012 45th SS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,729
Send a message via AIM to SilverTurtle Send a message via Yahoo to SilverTurtle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Brain View Post
at 400+lbs more weight - the ZL1 needs more than a good set of tires

it needs a diet


the real question is: with a $10,000-17,000 difference between the ZL1 and Z/28, can you buy enough mods to make the ZL1 outrun the Z/28?

I believe you can... $2000 for tires, $2000 in exhaust and $4000 in engine upgrades and you're going to be staring pretty hard at the GT3 and Z/28's taillights, if not looking at their headlights in the rear view mirror... factor in about $5000 in brake upgrades and you'll be doing even better than that.


the ZL1 is no slouch... it's a competent machine with a boatload of power... you might be surprised by what slapping a set of super sticky tires can do for a car that is well driven.
__________________
got tequila?
SilverTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 01:17 PM   #28
brt3
Runs with scissors...
 
brt3's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 Z/28s SIM/SW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,420
For my usage scenario, the ZL1 is simply not an option. I don't beleive it can tolerate hard track usage in 90-to-100+ degree ambient temps. I also prefer the lighter weight and sound of the Z/28, along with its more track-centric focus. I look forward to seeing someone modify the ZL1 and then accurately comparing it to the Z/28. Until then, we don't know how successful those mods might be...
__________________
brt3 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.