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Old 04-14-2014, 10:04 PM   #1
Dropspeed
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5th Track Weekend in my 1LE w/CTS-V Brakes

I ran my 5th track weekend in my 1LE this past weekend at Gingerman raceway in South Haven, MI. I am still wiped out so I will post the bullet points.
  • I ran a new PB in the 1LE of 1:44.41 That is faster than a ZL1 and GT500 Automobile Magazine test with a pro hot shoe and we are all on the same tires!
  1. Me: 1LE: 1:44.41
  2. 2012 ZL1: 1:44.53
  3. 2013 GT500: 1.45.21
It is not as fast as the 1:42.05 Mark Stielow laid down in a ZL1 during a Hot Rod Magazine test....but I will best that at a later time!

Current Performance Mods:
  • Roto-Fab Cold Air Intake
  • Pedders 220032 and 220033 Sport Ryder Springs
  • Pedders Rear Camber bolts
  • CTS-V 6-piston front calipers, 2 Piece rotors. OEM Brembo/Ferodo Brake Pads, Stop-Tech 660 Brake Fluid. DIY Brake ducts.
  • 285/30/20 and 305/30/20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G2 Tires.
  • -1.6 front Camber, -0.6 rear Camber
  • Removed my strut tower brace
All of the above has been added/changed since I ran the car stock last year to the 1:47.34 bone stock last summer

Brakes: Worked as expected..I was able to brake later as expected. Wish the 1LE came stock with these!
Tires: I just wanted to fit the 305 out back to try it.
Alignment: I changed the rear alignment from -1.3 I ran last year after the spring install to the -.6 to stand them up a bit and try to get a little more rotation from the back. I was very happy with how they wore and was getting even temps across the tire.


I wore/rounded the outer edge of the left front tire. Gingerman is very hard on tires and brakes. Because I wanted even wear and didnt want to cut my weekend short I swapped front rims and ran the tires backwards part of the second day. It worked

Did the 305 cause the car to push more or do I need more camber (or both) ???? I am sure the 305 induces under-steer, but I had the same issues with the front tire outer edges last year....I am going to try an run -2.0 at the next event and see what happens.

Rear Diff: one of my biggest issues is the rear diff opening up on track and spinning the inside rear tire. Once the tire starts to spin the clutches in the diff cannot grab it until you lift. When having fun or a "battle" on track I didn't want to lift and have a friend tag me mid-corner so I would stay in it once it broke loose and leave a single black streak and a smoke screen so he could see I didn't have traction. Some native Americans came out of the woods as they thought I needed help.......Nope just a Torsen Helical diff sooner than later! I will get his in car video later.

Other Highlights:
  • Cold tires bad...(see video and pictures)
  • Todd Naperalski had the Total Performance Racing (TPR) #39 GTS Camaro SS there doing some testing. I went out behind him once......Yeah, mmmmm the car weighs 3425 with driver, it's on race rubber, has real areo, real suspension....I was there about a 1/4 lap before he was gone. I believe he said he has run 1:36s there.

Little spin on track




Playing on the wet track:



1LE vs 6.0L (swapped) C5 on race tires.

Video from Vette before he past me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=7qYSQpSh7Hk

Video from my car after:







I will post more videos later,
Matt
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:07 PM   #2
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:14 AM   #3
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That spin gave me flashbacks to the season opener. Glad nothing seemed to break. Quick question for you though, I have not played with my alignment yet, but what is the factory front camber and what are we able to push and pull our way to?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:26 AM   #4
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That spin gave me flashbacks to the season opener. Glad nothing seemed to break. Quick question for you though, I have not played with my alignment yet, but what is the factory front camber and what are we able to push and pull our way to?
My May 2013 built car front camber was a -1.0 at delivery....Yours should be the same. I heard the early cars had less, but nothing to support that other than hearsay. When still stock I had mine at -1.3/-1.4 and there appeared to be more adjustment available.

-Matt
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:28 AM   #5
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It was nice to meet and talk with you Sunday. Sorry I couldn't of stuck around longer, as something unexpected came up.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:36 AM   #6
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It was nice to meet and talk with you Sunday. Sorry I couldn't of stuck around longer, as something unexpected came up.
You too, I was going to offer you a ride after lunch (and the car wash) but you were gone.

Your car looked great.

-Matt
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:42 PM   #7
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Matt, that's quite impressive especially considering the few mods you've done. Simply awesome, congrats!

I've been bitten by cold tires before as well, I found it nearly impossible to drive a Viper on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in temps below 55 degrees. KRich nearly blew chunks as my passenger when I spun at Buttonwillow during a session in the 40s, LOL.

I've yet to feel the need for a brake upgrade, it may be that I don't have enough experience to know what I'm missing or that my driving style doesn't seem to need them. Thank goodness, as I'm way beyond my mod budget already, LOL. I've taken classes at Ron Fellows, and they preach slow in fast out, so my style is easier than some on brakes. I've been avoiding threshold braking to preserve the tires and brakes and I tend to be smoother and turn faster laps that way. That said, I'll be running Hoosiers this weekend for the first time, and with my aero I may soon find my brakes' limitations. I'm running stock brakes with stainless lines, Motul 600 fluid and Hawk HP+ pads.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #8
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I ran this setup at Sebring this weekend with the Hawk DTC-30 and HP Plus in the back. I swapped my Pads back to the hawk ceramics and could not believe that after one track day the pads have half of there life gone!! I am thinking I need some cooling!!! I tend to brake very late and she is a big girl!!!!
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:06 PM   #9
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......I tend to brake very late and she is a big girl!!!!
Now that's funny
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:25 PM   #10
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Congrats on the PB! Glad your "off" wasn't too bad. Good thing you had your new JDP tow hook!

Best regards,

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Old 04-15-2014, 06:26 PM   #11
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Hey Matt. What app is that on your phone? I might want to download that before my next track day.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:41 PM   #12
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Awesome, what you couldn't do with a little more power and a better diff. About that diff Amazon is having a sale:

http://www.amazon.com/Torsen-Differe...n+differential

Also nice to see you were able to make good use of those new brakes and your tow hook. Way to represent! Pedders did have a specific rear sway bar for the 1LE. A shame they are not still around.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:29 PM   #13
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Matt, thats an awesome laptime man, crazy fast. Why in the world did u take the strut bar off!?!? U thinking less stiff more grip?

Now about that tow hook.... Where do I get one and send pocs of it mounted. You got a rear one?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:31 PM   #14
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Matt, thats an awesome laptime man, crazy fast. Why in the world did u take the strut bar off!?!? U thinking less stiff more grip?

Now about that tow hook.... Where do I get one and send pocs of it mounted. You got a rear one?

JDP Motorsports sells a tow hook, mounts to the bumper support...
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:47 PM   #15
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Tx SoCal, should ve read JDPs post. This thing bolt to the back of the beam and then come out under it to the front?

Matt,

Why 2nd after turn 1? I get it sideways in 3rd there but turn two kicks my butt in third and in second the diff just spins the inside like you said. Z/28 diff anybody?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE View Post
Matt, that's quite impressive especially considering the few mods you've done. Simply awesome, congrats!

I've been bitten by cold tires before as well, I found it nearly impossible to drive a Viper on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in temps below 55 degrees. KRich nearly blew chunks as my passenger when I spun at Buttonwillow during a session in the 40s, LOL.

I've yet to feel the need for a brake upgrade, it may be that I don't have enough experience to know what I'm missing or that my driving style doesn't seem to need them. Thank goodness, as I'm way beyond my mod budget already, LOL. I've taken classes at Ron Fellows, and they preach slow in fast out, so my style is easier than some on brakes. I've been avoiding threshold braking to preserve the tires and brakes and I tend to be smoother and turn faster laps that way. That said, I'll be running Hoosiers this weekend for the first time, and with my aero I may soon find my brakes' limitations. I'm running stock brakes with stainless lines, Motul 600 fluid and Hawk HP+ pads.
Thank you. I was reviewing the video again an what I did in my head and I think it was a combo of cold tires, engine braking by dropping into 2nd at a high RPM the slight crest on the track just before the turn....Add in my lack of judgement and you get a spin. Now, a spin has never bothered me as it is part of testing the limits....but I still like to figure out what cause it.

I don't believe I fully explored the potential of the stock brakes with a good pad and am more than confident they are up to the task for most and could have been for me to. When the opportunity to install the CTS-V Set-up came up at a lower cost than expected I jumped on it. When I raced I was always a late braker as I could catch a lot of guys in the braking zone the only thing I can recommend for th estock brakes is to get some airflow to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP Tyler View Post
Congrats on the PB! Glad your "off" wasn't too bad. Good thing you had your new JDP tow hook!

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007
Thank you Tyler....and yes I am glad I had it as it was an easy pull to get it out of the mud. the track official even thanked me for having it as it made his job easy and was only a bout a 2-3 minute delay to get the course back up and running....

When will the rear tow hooks be available ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Hey Matt. What app is that on your phone? I might want to download that before my next track day.
Harrys Lap Timer....I really like the app and still don't know how to use half of the options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Awesome, what you couldn't do with a little more power and a better diff. About that diff Amazon is having a sale:

http://www.amazon.com/Torsen-Differe...n+differential

Also nice to see you were able to make good use of those new brakes and your tow hook. Way to represent! Pedders did have a specific rear sway bar for the 1LE. A shame they are not gone.
Yep...both diff and more power are on the list for later.

I am not an advocate for the big rear bar install as it is more of a band aid than a proper fix. This is what I typed in a private message to another member just yesterday.

In talking to a couple members of the Camaro eng. team they both agreed that you should not put stiffer sway bars on the 1LE. GM talks roll stiffness in degrees. The 1LE has something like 1.8 degree of roll and the ZL1 was a 2.2ish. (Z/28 was not discussed.) I was told if you put a stiffer bar on the car you could start to "tear things". and in the two separate conversations I was advised against it.

I learned years ago setting up track cars that you do your tuning with springs and the bars are supposed to be used to fine tune or dial in the car. I honestly think that when building the 1LE the focus at GM was on cost to bring the 1LE in below the cost of the Boss 302 but still beat it on track, and that is why the SS springs were used. (Just my opinion) GM then put the biggest bars they could on the car to help the springs. The ZL1 has smaller bars and the magnetic ride handles most of the body roll....The Z/28 has a 80% stiffer spring with smaller bars.....Yeah yeah its crazy talk as it goes against what you were told.

-Matt
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
Thank you. I was reviewing the video again an what I did in my head and I think it was a combo of cold tires, engine braking by dropping into 2nd at a high RPM the slight crest on the track just before the turn....Add in my lack of judgement and you get a spin. Now, a spin has never bothered me as it is part of testing the limits....but I still like to figure out what cause it.

I don't believe I fully explored the potential of the stock brakes with a good pad and am more than confident they are up to the task for most and could have been for me to. When the opportunity to install the CTS-V Set-up came up at a lower cost than expected I jumped on it. When I raced I was always a late braker as I could catch a lot of guys in the braking zone the only thing I can recommend for th estock brakes is to get some airflow to them.




Thank you Tyler....and yes I am glad I had it as it was an easy pull to get it out of the mud. the track official even thanked me for having it as it made his job easy and was only a bout a 2-3 minute delay to get the course back up and running....

When will the rear tow hooks be available ??




Harrys Lap Timer....I really like the app and still don't know how to use half of the options.



Yep...both diff and more power are on the list for later.

I am not an advocate for the big rear bar install as it is more of a band aid than a proper fix. This is what I typed in a private message to another member just yesterday.

In talking to a couple members of the Camaro eng. team they both agreed that you should not put stiffer sway bars on the 1LE. GM talks roll stiffness in degrees. The 1LE has something like 1.8 degree of roll and the ZL1 was a 2.2ish. (Z/28 was not discussed.) I was told if you put a stiffer bar on the car you could start to "tear things". and in the two separate conversations I was advised against it.

I learned years ago setting up track cars that you do your tuning with springs and the bars are supposed to be used to fine tune or dial in the car. I honestly think that when building the 1LE the focus at GM was on cost to bring the 1LE in below the cost of the Boss 302 but still beat it on track, and that is why the SS springs were used. (Just my opinion) GM then put the biggest bars they could on the car to help the springs. The ZL1 has smaller bars and the magnetic ride handles most of the body roll....The Z/28 has a 80% stiffer spring with smaller bars.....Yeah yeah its crazy talk as it goes against what you were told.

-Matt
Leave it to Matt to requote what he sent me yesterday. Springs will be the mod after I get her broken in and get some time with her on the track. By the way, the video is tantalizing to the point that I need to sign up for the open track day over at Gateway later this year.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mgizzle View Post
Matt, thats an awesome laptime man, crazy fast. Why in the world did u take the strut bar off!?!? U thinking less stiff more grip?

Now about that tow hook.... Where do I get one and send pics of it mounted. You got a rear one?
Thanks....

My Tow Hook Thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346974

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgizzle View Post
Tx SoCal, should ve read JDPs post. This thing bolt to the back of the beam and then come out under it to the front?

Matt,

Why 2nd after turn 1? I get it sideways in 3rd there but turn two kicks my butt in third and in second the diff just spins the inside like you said. Z/28 diff anybody?
Yes, 3rd is the gear I normally use but I was experimenting with 2nd to get a little extra drive out of some of the corners. I like to experiment with different lines and gears to reduce the lap times.....They don't always work out!
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:10 PM   #19
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Orange Crush 1LE -

Are you running 19" Hoosier R compounds slicks? I wish they made a 20" slicks then it would be really easy for us 1LE track guys.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:16 PM   #20
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Orange Crush 1LE -

Are you running 19" Hoosier R compounds slicks? I wish they made a 20" slicks then it would be really easy for us 1LE track guys.
I have been running Nitto NT-01 315/30-18s front and rear. Just amazing tires, I'm really impressed with them. They grip in the cold, in the hot, when new, all the way down to the cord. For the first time, I'll be trying out Hoosier A6's this weekend. I'll be doing a time trial competing against Mustangs and Camaros. Just a small local thing, but should be a blast. I'll post up my experience.

Soon, Hoosier is rumored to be releasing the R7 (to replace the R6) in more sizes, hopefully there will be some new larger sizes.

I think you can now get Toyo R888s in 285/30-20, that would be a great choice for the track I would think.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:02 PM   #21
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Just added a second video to the first post.....I was playing around on the wet track with a friend in the passenger seat.

-Matt
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:30 PM   #22
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......added short video of me vs. a C5 with a 6.0L swap and race tires.

-Matt
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:32 AM   #23
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Thank you Tyler....and yes I am glad I had it as it was an easy pull to get it out of the mud. the track official even thanked me for having it as it made his job easy and was only a bout a 2-3 minute delay to get the course back up and running....

When will the rear tow hooks be available ??

-Matt
We have been contemplating a good way to mount it, but we can't seem to find a way without cutting the rear fascia.

We do offer the Proven Wicked rear tow hooks, but they do require cutting the fascia..





Best regards,

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Old 04-16-2014, 07:45 PM   #24
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Im a little late to the party,I've been gone skiing.Matt,when i saw the pic's of the car in the mud,such a bummerglad there wasn't any damage. Thanks for posting and good thing you had your tow hook.Is the video from GoPro?
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
I am not an advocate for the big rear bar install as it is more of a band aid than a proper fix. This is what I typed in a private message to another member just yesterday.

In talking to a couple members of the Camaro eng. team they both agreed that you should not put stiffer sway bars on the 1LE. GM talks roll stiffness in degrees. The 1LE has something like 1.8 degree of roll and the ZL1 was a 2.2ish. (Z/28 was not discussed.) I was told if you put a stiffer bar on the car you could start to "tear things". and in the two separate conversations I was advised against it.

I learned years ago setting up track cars that you do your tuning with springs and the bars are supposed to be used to fine tune or dial in the car. I honestly think that when building the 1LE the focus at GM was on cost to bring the 1LE in below the cost of the Boss 302 but still beat it on track, and that is why the SS springs were used. (Just my opinion) GM then put the biggest bars they could on the car to help the springs. The ZL1 has smaller bars and the magnetic ride handles most of the body roll....The Z/28 has a 80% stiffer spring with smaller bars.....Yeah yeah its crazy talk as it goes against what you were told.

-Matt
No arguing with your results!
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