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Old 08-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #1
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GMPP headers, exhaust, CAI add no POWER

From what everyone discusses, if you add the GMPP exhaust, headers and/ or CAI your warrenty is SAFE. So you would assume that they add NO horsepower or torque that would harm engine/ drivetrain. But if you add someone elses headers/ exhaust or CAI you add horsepower and torque that voids the warrenty. Headers, exhausts and CAI all add horsepower and torque no matter who made them so how is warrenty voided unless you use GMPP?
So you add GMPP and get 30 horsepower and 40 ft.lb . troque at the rear wheels, still have a warrenty.
Add someone elses = no warrenty?
Tune and get 20 HP and 40 ft.lb. torque = no warrenty?
How will GM defend this in court?
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:22 AM   #2
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Your assuming the GMPP exhaust, intake, and shorty headers will make
30 rwhp, 40 lb ft or torque. Without tuning, I have my doughts that those parts will make that much HP and Torque. But assuming they do, there's
another issue to consider.

Tuning issue.
When you get your car tuned by a professional they do more than just add HP and Torque. They usually adjust settings in the transmission (shift points, rev limiter, shift firmness, torque management, etc) that make your car faster. These changes can affect the life of your transmission.

So a good tune is more than just HP and Torque.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:23 AM   #3
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Any modification added to the vehicle technically can't void the warranty. Nothing voids the warranty unless something YOU installed is PROVEN to harm what you want fixed or repaired under the warranty. They can say yeah yeah it'll be gone- but like if you had like a window problem/seat belt problem/oil change/any problem that is not from a modification they must fix it under warranty unless proven to cause the problem.

I bet those exhausts are crap anyways. Screw the warranty its a joke. Heard the phrase you gotta pay to play? Lol. But really, i wouldnt be worried about warranty issues with bolt ons; even foreign ones. The only thing that may cause them to be like what the hell no more warranty is like an ECU tune or a torque converter. im getting both so i dont care about warranty. How long u plan on keepin car for
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:25 AM   #4
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Get longtube american racing headers with an axle back exhaust, lmr cold air intake, spark plugs, portted throttle body, and a GOOD tune and you will have tremendous gains and no worry for warranty (most likely)
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:33 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
From what everyone discusses, if you add the GMPP exhaust, headers and/ or CAI your warrenty is SAFE. So you would assume that they add NO horsepower or torque that would harm engine/ drivetrain. But if you add someone elses headers/ exhaust or CAI you add horsepower and torque that voids the warrenty. Headers, exhausts and CAI all add horsepower and torque no matter who made them so how is warrenty voided unless you use GMPP?
So you add GMPP and get 30 horsepower and 40 ft.lb . troque at the rear wheels, still have a warrenty.
Add someone elses = no warrenty?
Tune and get 20 HP and 40 ft.lb. torque = no warrenty?
How will GM defend this in court?
HUH?????????????

HOw is this hard to understand? If you order a car from GM, they warrant it.
If you order performance parts from GM and put them in that GM car yourself.... GM will not warrant the parts or any of the systems affected by the new parts.
If you order parts from GM and have GM install them in the GM vehicle with a warranty... It will mean that they might not warrant the parts affected, however they will warrant the parts they put in as well as their labor.
How could they warrant damage due to ..... say .... installing an MTI cam and ARH headers that they didn't produce or install?

Seems easy to understand. It has nothing to do with whether it produces more power or not.

To make it easier to understand....
Lets say you buy a JVC Flat screen tv. It has a 10 year warranty. If it explodes they will replace it. However, You want to make it more powerful by replacing the wiring in the TV with 10 Gauge wiring. YOu pull the whole TV apart do the wiring, put it back together, and wah lah. Brighter colors and enhanced sound. Well one day the TV catches on fire because of the wires you soldered in. Well the warranty is void because you not only opened the TV up, but you replaced the wires. Why would a company fix something that you may have tampered with.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:37 AM   #6
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If you spin a bearing, they are not going to void your warrenty because of a CAI. However if your MAF malfuntions, they may not cover that because of the CAI. It has to be relevent to the part.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:39 AM   #7
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GMs parts are safe to use on GM vehicles. They test and validate them, otherwise they wouldn't protect your warranty. However, they don't test and validate aftermarket products....it's that simple.

But as someone else said. Your warranty isn't void as soon as you put them on. If something happens that they can PROVE was the fault of the modification...then they void it, otherwise, you're safe.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicSix6 View Post
HUH?????????????

HOw is this hard to understand? If you order a car from GM, they warrant it.
If you order performance parts from GM and put them in that GM car yourself.... GM will not warrant the parts or any of the systems affected by the new parts.
If you order parts from GM and have GM install them in the GM vehicle with a warranty... It will mean that they might not warrant the parts affected, however they will warrant the parts they put in as well as their labor.
How could they warrant damage due to ..... say .... installing an MTI cam and ARH headers that they didn't produce or install?

Seems easy to understand. It has nothing to do with whether it produces more power or not.

Good point.
What parts are available (or are expected to become available) that will significantly increase HP while allowing 2010 Camaro buyers to keep their full warranty?

Because the GM parts planned (intake, shorty headers, exhaust) aren't going to do it.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:42 AM   #9
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Ok, I add a K&N filter, it adds horsepower and torqe (very little) it stresses EVERY component inside the engine due to power increase and in transmission, so that voids warrenty on those moving parts? If different L99 engines dyno as stock at between 300 and 325 horsepower there seams to be variance in power that components take as stock, so if you Tune a 305 HP engine to get 325 HP you VOID the warrenty?
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:48 AM   #10
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I would say a filter alone wouldnt void any warranties otherwise nobody would buy aftermarket filters. However an improperly oiled k&n could ruin your maf so that would void the warranty.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:52 AM   #11
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NO ONE gets the point....GMPP components WILL add HP and torque, that the internal components of the engine will react to by producing more HP and torque and the transmission and components will handle, without touching any of those components directly.......SO........GM has designed the engine and transmission to take those increased stresses only if you use GM parts?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:27 AM   #12
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the attached component is warrented by that manufacturer, headers, exhaust, CAI, whether GM or ARH, ALL added components STRESS the engine and transmission and rear end, Parts that have NOT BEEN MODIFIED, so GM headers add stress and GM warrents the internal engine components that are stressed. You add ARH headers and GM does not warrent the engine components that are stressed whether more or less stressed? You add headers and your transmission has a failure, so only if it was GM headers you get warrenty?

seems easy to understand. NOT.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:39 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
NO ONE gets the point....GMPP components WILL add HP and torque, that the internal components of the engine will react to by producing more HP and torque and the transmission and components will handle, without touching any of those components directly.......SO........GM has designed the engine and transmission to take those increased stresses only if you use GM parts?
NO. Gm can only vouch for the parts they have developed and tested. GM can not vouch for Joe Blow's Super PVC CAI.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:41 AM   #14
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Seriously this hurts my brain. Your engines HP has no relation to the warranty its the parts that makeup the engine. HP is realitve to all of the parts that makeup your powertrain. Please stop looking at the engine as a single part.

GM warranty's all of their parts that they certify for our cars. So if you add a GMPP CAI and you gain HP that doesnt void your engine's warranty. That is the whole reason why GM has a Perfomance Parts division so they can cash in on what we are all going to bolt onto our cars anyways, but at least with GMPP we dont have to worry about who to point the finger at when/if something fails.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
the attached component is warrented by that manufacturer, headers, exhaust, CAI, whether GM or ARH, ALL added components STRESS the engine and transmission and rear end, Parts that have NOT BEEN MODIFIED, so GM headers add stress and GM warrents the internal engine components that are stressed. You add ARH headers and GM does not warrent the engine components that are stressed whether more or less stressed? You add headers and your transmission has a failure, so only if it was GM headers you get warrenty?

seems easy to understand. NOT.
You're missing the point. Your warranty is not based on how much horsepower your engine produces. That's why Ford Racing sells a supercharger kit for the Mustangs that adds 100 hp, but it's still covered under the warranty.

The warranty is based on what GM tests, validates, and approves for the engine. If you take your engine out, completely rebuild it with forged internals, stroker crank, hot cam, and CNC'd heads, why WOULD they warranty that? They didn't make it, they didn't test it, they didn't install it.

The GMPP parts are tested and validated by GM. They have proven that adding these parts will not harm your engine or transmission. Since they can't do that to every aftermarket piece of equipment out there, they say "if you add things not approved by us, we can void your warranty." Why? Because they don't want to buy you a new engine because you forgot to torque a rod cap correctly and sent a piston through your engine block.

Again, warranty is not based on horsepower. It is based on what GM has tested and approved. Not sure why you're stuck on this horsepower thing. This gives GM a way out of buying people new engines because they bought aftermarket components and installed them. If you built someone an engine from scratch, and you gave it a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty... and then they took it home, decided they wanted a bigger engine, so they took it apart, added a stroker crank, bored it out and added new pistons, then blew it to hell and brought it back to you..... Are you going to give them a brand new engine for free? Didn't think so.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:06 PM   #16
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It seems there is some misunderstanding about aftermarket parts & new car warranty, the Magnuson-Moss Act etc.

They MMA only applies to parts that are certified replacement parts for your car or exact replacement. Example a Wix filter instead of a Delco is fine. It's an exact replacement part.
A part that alters the factory part (header vs exhaust manifold) has to go thru certification that it does not alter emmissions output. This is an Executive Order exemption or an E.O number. Only these parts fall under the "dealer has to prove it cased the problem" argument.
A part that is sold as an "off road only/sanctioned racing only" is not a replacement part. In fact strict interpetation of the "off road only" waiver would be that you have turned your street car onto a non-street car.
No more warranty.
Under the Federal Clean Air Act it is illegal (a felony) to remove or alter the emmisions of a vehicle. It was only by SEMA and some key factories and people working with the CA Air Resources Board (CARB) that the O.E. proccess got put together.

I'm not trying to be Mister Doom & Gloom. I have worked in the aftermarket for 25+ years and live with these issues all the time.

I just want you guys to have the facts when you are making these decisions to modify your car.
The TV analogy is good. Once you modify it, it's no longer as GM shipped it. Only they can modify it (delaer installed GMPP).

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but I hope it helps.

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Old 08-05-2009, 12:10 PM   #17
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HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE ARE STRESS, add all GMPP parts and warrenty OK, with internal components being stress, whether engine, transmission or rear end. Add something that adds 5 hp of stress, K&N filter (just to show stupitity) and rear end breaks (stupid example) GM says that stressed rear end and not covered by warrenty?
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE ARE STRESS, add all GMPP parts and warrenty OK, with internal components being stress, whether engine, transmission or rear end. Add something that adds 5 hp of stress, K&N filter (just to show stupitity) and rear end breaks (stupid example) GM says that stressed rear end and not covered by warrenty?


Why are you making this so difficult? HP and torque do not effect your warranty. you are not going to spin a rod, or break the transmission or rear end from any hp gains from stupid little bolt ons like CAI, headers, or a muffler. or an damn oil filter.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #19
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I would love to hear some testimony from a GM representative giving us the GUARANTEE that the warranties are good so long as you use GMPP parts. Something tells me that when push comes to shove, if the part cause the problem and it didnt come from the factory with it, GM wont cover it.

And if they do cover it, it's soley so that they can justify the relatively huge price tag compared to the aftermarket alternatives.

IF they cover it truly, I can definitely see the added peace of mind in purchasing only GMPP, but that doesnt mean you should avoid all other aftermarket company's products. The part still has to directly cause the failure and they have to prove it in order to void your warranty.

Guys have been bolting on stuff for years, GM wants us to enjoy these cars... Hence the creation of Launch Control! I think that once you wade through the dealer's BS, GM will stand by their product and the warranty they've promised.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:46 PM   #20
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let me use simple terms...
GM builds a car called Camaro, if they put a L99 engine in it they test and warrent all the parts, they know that there are variences in power of their engines, we have seen dyno's of unmodified with 305 to 325 HP, but thats OK its under warrenty. Now they want to make more money so they design GMPP parts like headers, exhaust and CAI to use on the Camaro, they test the parts and they add HP and torque and allowable STRESS on all driveline components, whether its the 305 HP engine or the 325 HP engine.
now my camaro that had 325 HP has 350 HP and warrenty is fine. You add ARH exhaust and doing so you know that you take responsibility for that part now, and since you know it adds HP you are fine with that. And we all know GM designed everything with that tollerence of added HP, because after all if you used the GMPP exhaust GM knows it does not stress the drivetrain beyond what GM has already tested with their own components, so is the basic L99 drivetrain good for 350 HP (my example)? why do we want to modify the car? we want this extre power, and since GM parts add power and are under warrenty, we all want 350 HP. But that ARH exhaust adds HP and Torque, just like the GMPP exhaust, it stresses all the components of the driveline because of the extra HP and Torque, and GM has tested the components and they are happy with the results of added HP and troque to their driveline and warrent it, even if their exhaust adds HP and torque their rear end and transmission and internal engine parts are OK with that stress, caused by that component. Now your ARH exhaust are on your car and you are happy, your rear end has a problem, that's OK you never touched it, but your exhaust added HP and torque that caused the component to fail.......who pays?

if scott or irpq11 do 60 0-60 runs and multiple 1/4 mile runs, thats OK with GM, the components can take it, you add an aftermarket exhaust for the sound and the added troque breaks the rear end and your not covered? unless of course the exhaust was GMPP?

Last edited by 1camaro70; 08-05-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:02 PM   #21
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You're a lost cause. GM doesn't want to pay for the 1000's of people who modify their cars with aftermarket parts. So they design their own. This gives people the option of increasing hp while keeping the warranty. If you build something, someone adds parts to it and it breaks, do you want to buy them a new part? No. Again, hp has nothing to do with it.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:11 PM   #22
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If anything that is added to the car that is not a disposable part and did not come from GM will void the warranty. So you can get oil, oil filter, air filter, windshield wiper blades, wiper fluid and stuff like that. Anything else the warranty is gone.

Pretty simple after doing research. Anything increasing HP or TRQ that is not GM's will void the entire drive train warranty.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:18 PM   #23
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If anything that is added to the car that is not a disposable part and did not come from GM will void the warranty. So you can get oil, oil filter, air filter, windshield wiper blades, wiper fluid and stuff like that. Anything else the warranty is gone.

Pretty simple after doing research. Anything increasing HP or TRQ that is not GM's will void the entire drive train warranty.
And the GM part needs to be approved for each specific application (approved for use on the 2010 Camaro SS). GM makes a lot of performance parts from exhausts, to transmissions, to crate engines.

As of right now, the only approved performance part for the 2010 Camaro is their axle back exhaust (non off road version).
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:05 PM   #24
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let me use simple terms...
GM builds a car called Camaro, if they put a L99 engine in it they test and warrent all the parts, they know that there are variences in power of their engines, we have seen dyno's of unmodified with 305 to 325 HP, but thats OK its under warrenty. Now they want to make more money so they design GMPP parts like headers, exhaust and CAI to use on the Camaro, they test the parts and they add HP and torque and allowable STRESS on all driveline components, whether its the 305 HP engine or the 325 HP engine.
now my camaro that had 325 HP has 350 HP and warrenty is fine. You add ARH exhaust and doing so you know that you take responsibility for that part now, and since you know it adds HP you are fine with that. And we all know GM designed everything with that tollerence of added HP, because after all if you used the GMPP exhaust GM knows it does not stress the drivetrain beyond what GM has already tested with their own components, so is the basic L99 drivetrain good for 350 HP (my example)? why do we want to modify the car? we want this extre power, and since GM parts add power and are under warrenty, we all want 350 HP. But that ARH exhaust adds HP and Torque, just like the GMPP exhaust, it stresses all the components of the driveline because of the extra HP and Torque, and GM has tested the components and they are happy with the results of added HP and troque to their driveline and warrent it, even if their exhaust adds HP and torque their rear end and transmission and internal engine parts are OK with that stress, caused by that component. Now your ARH exhaust are on your car and you are happy, your rear end has a problem, that's OK you never touched it, but your exhaust added HP and torque that caused the component to fail.......who pays?

if scott or irpq11 do 60 0-60 runs and multiple 1/4 mile runs, thats OK with GM, the components can take it, you add an aftermarket exhaust for the sound and the added troque breaks the rear end and your not covered? unless of course the exhaust was GMPP?
Since you're this spooked about warranty issues, DO NOT modify your car; leave it absolutely stock unless you take it to an AUTHORIZED dealer and pay them to make only GM approved changes. Then you don't have to worry. The rest of us? Well we're just flat taking our changes but hey, it's our money and our cars so we're okay with that.

The whole point is to enjoy your car. Some enjoy modding their car; some to the point where they may actually spend more time modding it than driving it seems but that's what they enjoy and that's cool. Some like to race; some like to enter shows; some like to meet up with other enthusiasts and hang out and talk about their cars. Some just like to drive around and enjoy their car just as it is. It's all cool because that's what freedom of choice is all about.

If you want to mod your car, then UNDERSTAND that you take on the responsibility of your OWN ACTIONS and it's not anybody else's "fault" if something you do breaks something. That's the way it goes; learn from it and do it better so it doesn't break the next time. If you aren't willing to accept that responsibility, then DON'T MESS WITH IT. Pure and simple.
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:27 PM   #25
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A CAI or headers isnt going to void your powertrain warranty. They may not cover your maf/throttle body issues because of the CAI or the exhaust or o2 sensors because of the headers, but if you break an axle or driveshaft or spin a bearing....clearly thats not related to the installed part.

however if you change gear ratios, your rearend wont be covered. If you instal ARP rodbolts, your engine will be void.

Otherwise you better not put any aftermarket engine covers on that could trap heat and cause your drivetrain to fail. Its pretty common sense.
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